Earnings call transcript: Andritz Q4 2024 reports record net income

Andritz AG reported its earnings for the fourth quarter of 2024, showcasing a record net income and stable revenue figures despite a slight decline from previous periods. According to InvestingPro analysis, the company maintains a perfect Piotroski Score of 9, indicating exceptional financial strength. The company’s stock experienced a 3.21% increase, reflecting positive investor sentiment. Notably, the pre-market trading price rose by 1.9 euros to 61 euros, highlighting the market’s favorable response to the financial results.

Key Takeaways

• Record net income with a 6% margin.
• Proposed increase in dividend payouts.
• Strategic acquisitions in green technology and pollution control.
• Strong service revenue growth, reaching an all-time high of 41%.

Company Performance

In the full year of 2024, Andritz achieved a revenue of 8 billion euros, maintaining its position despite a slight decline. The company’s order intake matched its revenue, indicating consistent demand. The focus on digitalization and decarbonization, coupled with strategic acquisitions, bolstered its market position, particularly in the pulp and paper and metals sectors.

Financial Highlights

• Revenue: 8 billion euros (slight decline)
• Net Income: 490.7 million euros (record 6% net income margin)
• Comparable EBITDA: 743 million euros (8.9% margin)
• Free Cash Flow: 399 million euros
• Return on Invested Capital: 22%

Market Reaction

Andritz’s stock price increased by 3.21%, reaching 61 euros in pre-market trading. This positive movement is attributed to the company’s strong financial performance and strategic initiatives, including acquisitions and investment in green technologies. InvestingPro analysis shows the stock generally trades with low price volatility, making it an attractive option for stability-focused investors. The stock’s performance is notable within its 52-week range of 47.4 to 65.6 euros, indicating robust investor confidence. Discover 10+ additional exclusive insights and detailed financial metrics with an InvestingPro subscription.

Outlook & Guidance

Andritz has set a revenue guidance of 8.0 to 8.3 billion euros for 2025, with a comparable EBITDA margin target of 8.6% to 9%. Looking ahead to 2027, the company aims for revenue between 9 and 10 billion euros, with a margin exceeding 9%. Investors anticipating the next earnings update should note that according to InvestingPro, the next earnings release is scheduled for March 28, 2025. Access comprehensive analysis and Fair Value estimates through the detailed Pro Research Report, available exclusively on InvestingPro. The focus remains on base growth and large-scale opportunities, particularly in sectors like pulp and paper and green hydrogen technology.

Executive Commentary

CEO Dr. Joachim Schonberg emphasized the company’s strategic direction, stating, "Tomorrow is a better day than today is one of our DNAs." He also highlighted the importance of pulp as a sustainable alternative to plastics. Outgoing CFO Norbert Netesheim reassured stakeholders, stating, "We are well prepared."

Risks and Challenges

• Economic fluctuations impacting order intake and revenue.
• Potential supply chain disruptions affecting production schedules.
• Competition in the green technology sector.
• Regulatory changes in environmental policies.
• Currency exchange rate volatility affecting international operations.

Q&A

During the earnings call, analysts inquired about Andritz’s exposure to the defense sector, restructuring plans, and the pulp market outlook. The company clarified its strategy in these areas, emphasizing its focus on innovation and market adaptation.

This comprehensive performance and strategic foresight position Andritz favorably for the upcoming fiscal year, with a strong emphasis on sustainability and technological leadership.

Full transcript - Andritz AG (ANDR) Q4 2024:

Matthias Feifenberger, Head of Investor Relations, Andritz: Good morning from Andritz this morning, and welcome to our full year ’twenty four Earnings Call with Analysts and Investors. I’m Matthias Feifenberger, the Head of Investor Relations, and I have a big pleasure to introduce our hosts today. It’s our CEO, Doctor. Joachim Schonberg our CFO, Mr. Netesheim and our new Executive Board member, Vanessa Helving.

What is the agenda today? We’ll run you through the full year results, including the divisions, then we’ll switch over to outlook and medium term targets followed by Q and A. And before we start, I’d like to pass over to Vanessa Helbing for introductory remarks. Vanessa, please.

Vanessa Helbing, Incoming CFO, Andritz: Thank you, Matthias. Thanks for the intro and also a sincere thanks to Joachim and my dear Board colleagues for the great welcome at the Board of Andritz. So maybe a few words from my side. Good morning to all. My name is Vanessa Helbing, and I’m part of the Andritz team since January.

I’m very excited to take over the new CFO role from April, following a very smooth and professional handover from Norbert Netterseil. I have already been in CFO positions since the age of 29 and have been working with companies like Siemens, ThyssenKrupp and Fiskemann Climate Solutions, which was recently sold to Carrier Global. I’m bringing along quite significant experience in the large cap sector. Many fields of my professional expertise actually imply a broad overlap with Andred’s focus areas, like plant engineering in general or large project business in specific, but also the focus on sustainable solutions, a strong service offering and also my favorite, digitalization. In my previous roles, I was driving large restructuring programs and portfolio optimizations.

I have special projects like shared service setups and an IPO preparation. Equipped with my experience, I’m looking very much forward to making a significant contribution and help promoting the Andritz success story to the next level. While I’m today only enjoying the show, I will already meet analysts and investors at our next investor conferences scheduled in March and April and hopefully catching up with many of you and, well, having good conversations. And with this, Joachim, the stage is yours.

Dr. Joachim Schonberg, CEO, Andritz: Thank you very much. Good morning to everybody from my side. So we are very happy, Vanessa, to have you on board. Even though we will miss Norbert, we for sure believe that you will help us to improve further, and I hope that the analysts will love it and the investors even more because that tomorrow is a better day than today is one of our DNAs. So that is a very good change.

However, as you know, the changes in hundreds are very much based on changes in continuity. This was when I took over from Wolfgang Leitner on the CEO, and this will be the same mode of operation we will have in this change on the CFO. As we will be the last time in this round also from my side, a big thanks to Norbert for his good contribution and his good guidance of you to the greater good of hundreds. I would say the times we are in currently cannot be more interesting to say the least. However, we see some, I would say, some good improvements in Austria since a week.

We even have a new government, and I think it’s not everybody has heard it. They call themselves the government of economic reason. I would say that’s at least a good start. And also Germany is on a good way to form a new government. So I would say and that gives a good environment for what we share with you today.

Do I click? Yes. Okay. So if we look to the Androids performance of Q4 twenty twenty four and the full year, we had, I would say, we made a good end of the year record order intake in December, very strong order intake in Q4. Overall, it brought us to a book to bill of one, definitely driven in Q4 by pulp and paper and hydropower.

We see a good recovery in many of our markets across the industries, and we could see a continued growth in the service business even in the, I would say, more, I would say, subdued market conditions of last year, service grew quite strongly. We had a slight decrease in revenue year on year, but I hope you that we can report a stable EBITA margin, good improved mix from capital to service, solid project execution. We made additional provisions for capacity adjustments in Q4. Still, the reported EBITDA is stable. The operational EBITDA could even improve.

We have a stable net income with a record net income margin of 6%. So if we put it in numbers for Q4, EUR ’2 point ’5 billion order intake, EUR 2,300,000,000.0 on revenue. The order backlog nicely increased towards from Q3. We are now almost at the same level on SEK7 billion. The comparable EBITDA margin was 10.2% in the last quarter.

It was on the reported margin 9%, million resulting in a net income in the last quarter of million or 6.8%. Looking to the full year, order intake and revenue both settling at billion, I would say for not too bad number for a difficult year we had. We have the EBITDA, the comparable EBITDA at million, 8 point 9 percent. The EBITDA reported is €713,000,000, it’s 8.6% exactly on the level of the previous year. That all results up in a net income of almost EUR 500,000,000.0, EUR 4 90 7 million at 6% net income margin.

The dividend per share, we are proposing to increase by per share to per share. We made further way on our acquisition strategy, strengthening our digitalization and decarbonization parts of our strategy. We acquired summer last year. We acquired Procemex, the market leader of optical web inspection for the paper industry. Extremely successful company, excellent fit, strengthen us in the digitalization and our efforts towards the autonomous mill.

On the decarbonization, we invested in HydrogenPRO. That’s our technology partner for the green hydrogen alkaline electrolyzers. And we acquired beginning of this year in January, we acquired LDX Solutions that is an U. S.-based leading company for pollution control, especially in specialized in North America sales, approximately $100,000,000 believe that it’s the right time to enhance our business in The United States. Our intake in detail, we look Q4 full year.

You could see that in Q4, the increase compared to last year was significant. Pulp and paper, plus 25% metals, plus 6% hydropower, plus 54%. So it’s really it is it’s significant. Only Environment Energy dropped in Q4, but you might or might not remember, we had a very, very large order last year in the Q4 reported. So I would say in total, it does well.

Looking for the full year, we can see strong growth in hydropower, environment and energy, definitely a reduced demand for pulp and paper and metals. And, yes, we can maybe if you can see the development, if you look on the chart to the quarters that we had an increase in Q3 and even higher increase in Q4. So we believe it is there is definitely a change in the market doing. On the revenue side, we saw a decline, a slight decline in 2024. We had a solid growth in service business.

We had a very late, I would say, order intake pickup, which at the end did not convert into sales in ’twenty four. So that sales will come then in ’twenty five. We have in pulp and paper, we have the situation that the very large projects of the past years, they’re approaching completion. And I would say in metals, the overall drop is not that significant, minus 2%. Hydropower, very stable.

But you could see we have an increase in hydropower sales that’s 1% only. But if you see in the last quarter, the increase is 13%, and this basically reflects this business model of hydro execution times rather long. And in the first six to nine months, rather moderate sales recognition because this is this period when we have the engineering trials, the mock up will be built. So we are confident that the sales will come. We do not see any delays in execution or any obstacles on our way.

In environment and energy, we see the solid growth that we saw is basically across all industries that we are serving. Having a more a closer look to the service business, we reached service revenue share an all time high of 41%, never been there before. That is very good, And that is not only because the capital sales went down, but if we look to the absolute numbers, you can also see that we could increase nicely to a €3,400,000,000 service revenue. This will continue. The 8% is definitely what we would like to see further.

Capturing entire lifecycle value is what our customers want. That’s a clear part of our strategy. And we will go there with organic expansion and, of course, with M and A with the large capital orders we have had over the past years definitely provide an excellent basis to further increase our revenue shares. You can see that we have a solid backlog, significant improvement, 4% from Q3 to Q4. Majority, as usual, in pulp and paper and hydropower and with the strong growth of hydropower, that share is really significantly increasing.

You could see from previous year to this year from 43% to from 34% to 41%. So that is a significant increase, gives a good solid foundation for the sales recognition in this year. Looking to the EBITDA. The reported EBITDA, as I already mentioned, dropped from €742,000,000 to €730,000,000 EBITDA margin is reported stable, 8.6%. You could see rather stable over the year.

Interesting view definitely is on the comparable EBITDA margin. I reported to you already in the last calls that we saw some in our industry some, I would say, structural changes which we do not believe will quickly recover. So we took the decision to go for capacity adjustments in certain areas, Mainly in Europe and within Europe, mainly in Germany, this has been significantly higher. So we can report here 8.9%, seven forty three million euros which shows that we are on the operational side, made our home works and are on the right way to improve sustainably also our profitability. On the ESG side, I would say we are well on track.

We basically, the majority of our ESG targets for 2025, we have reached. We are lacking a bit behind on this share of green revenues. We are stuck at the 44%. Believe it will be difficult to reach the 50% in 25%. On the social goals, I would say we are in a good way.

The governance is all green. We will define new ESG targets during the year. The greenhouse gas emission targets will be aligned with SBTI. We are in the process of getting their approval across, and we will, I would say, within Q2 or Q3, we will inform you about the new targets. So I hand over to Norbert for the to report in more detail about the financial performance.

Norbert Netesheim, Outgoing CFO, Andritz: Yes. Thank you, Joachim. And also from my side, good morning to all who are in the call today for the last time, but continuing as I did it in the past, I will dig a little bit deeper into our group’s financials starting with the P and L and then going through cash flow, liquidity and some major KPIs all related to the total group. So starting with the P and L key figures about the EBITA. Joachim has already reported, very strong Q4 with $2.00 6,000,000 brought us to the $713,000,000 EBITA.

This includes 26,000,000 additional non recurring restructuring expenses, which we have accrued for in the Q4 to start some adjustments for capacity adjustments, especially in metals and in some parts of paper. This led then to the $7.13. And if you look to the left with regular depreciation, we were able to get a 10.7 EBITDA number, which is a 20 basis points increase compared to previous year. And from EBITA to the right, you know the regular topics which we have in with regard to amortization, 51% nothing special. Regular amortization no special write offs to do.

Also have enough and well headroom in our impairment tests. Then with the EBIT of SEK661.2 million also a slight increase 8% compared to 7.9% in the past. And then comes, let’s say, the first new in this slide, which you didn’t see that way in past quarters. We report on a negative financial result and this is simply a devaluation issue. You know that we had this cybersecurity joint venture, Autoreo, which was a fully consolidated unit because we had majority in the past.

We took now additional investors in and this led to the fact that we had to and this consolidation led to, let’s say, a slight devaluation or another slide, led to a devaluation effect of 23,000,000. It’s simply a balance sheet devaluation of this matter and this brought the financial results into the negative. The pure interest results is sufficiently positive with more than 40,000,000 in

Dr. Joachim Schonberg, CEO, Andritz: this

Norbert Netesheim, Outgoing CFO, Andritz: number based on our favorable liquidity situation. So and with this negative financial results, we come to a 446.6 EBT and with million tax, which is a significant reduction in tax rates to 23.2% coming from the million in last year driven by increase in deferred tax assets, we could manage to keep our net income somewhere in the range of 500 as you were used to see it also in the former periods. 6% is a record high for Andres and is what we have announced in January in the Capital Market Day as our net income target. So while on sales and on profits, we might have a little bit of a delay with regard to the net income margin. We are already in the target dimensions.

So that’s it on the net income. Having it not on the slide but mentioning it quickly, equity increased to 27.9%, two point two billion. You might see when you look through our financial reports, which is a very favorable and a very sufficient equity portion, which later on is then also a basis combined with a cash to provide and pay sufficient and nice dividend also for ’24. So that’s it on the P and L. When we now look into cash flow, you see here the classical bridge from the net income to the cash flow.

And the nice thing is that we could turn in the Q4 this increase in net working capital. So the cash consumption due to increase of working capital in Q4 was stopped and it was even favorable. So million tailwind in cash flow in the Q4. But for the total year, negative effect of million by increase in working capital. As I explained several times, nothing serious or driven by this regular cycle of big projects which are in the early stage cash positive and the late stage cash negative.

We have now more projects in the late stage and this turned this led to the fact that working capital increased, nothing special, everything regular. And in total, we achieved $636,000,000 operating cash flow, which is at least from our perspective, but you have to judge it finally a very favorable number to generate more than million cash out of our billion revenues. And we invested million in fixed assets and in M1A activities, and this led them to a free cash flow of CHF $3.99. Here you see the backup for the cash flow, which I mentioned already. Q4 was million, very favorable operating cash flow.

And this supports then the average three years average to stay consistently above the million. And that means Anders is not only a profitable company, it’s also a nicely cash generating group. So and this then at the end leads to the fact that the treasure box stays filled nicely. We paid back in the current year 300,000,000 of debt. And we did, as you know, these dividend payments in the last year had a share buyback of 117,000,000.

And beside all this usage of our liquidity, we kept the net liquidity still on above million level, which gives us, as I said several times, sufficient room for strategic acquisitions in the next future. So and with all that said that, a good result, well a well dimensioned equity and a good cash basis, we were able to increase the dividend to And this is now a payout ratio of 51.8 and supporting the average payout ratio of about 50% as we have announced it in the past. So that’s about the numbers. And I’d like to end with a quick view on the major KPIs on the return on the invested capital in the future. You see here the development over the years.

We are now at a 22% level in last year, and current year level means more than 14% above weighted average cost of capital. So I would say a good investment of money into hundreds with a very high value creation on invested capital. So and here the summary you know is all the details of all the numbers which were mentioned already partly. All the intake was mentioned by your AGM strong Q4 slight decrease in revenues. By the way, million of this decrease is from foreign exchange currency effects with a stronger euro compared to the real and the renminbi.

So this currency adjusted, it would be only a 3% decrease coming from this order backlog and order intake situation as explained. But when you then look into the numbers below all these relative profitability numbers on a very good partly increased level with the million. And as I said before, the strong cash flow leads then to the sufficient liquidity of 900,000,000. So that’s it from me. It’s also the last time I have the chance to speak to you.

And the only thing I want to say is a big thank to all the people I spoke to in the last years. It was always perfect collaboration and a perfect communication. I wish you all the best and I wish Andres and my colleagues also all the best for the future. Joachim?

Dr. Joachim Schonberg, CEO, Andritz: Thank you, Norbert. So let’s have a more close look to the business areas. Pipe and paper, as we said, difficult market in last year, significant recovery towards the end of the year, ended up in order intake, in total, minus 8%. Backlog also drove down revenue, down by 13%. Profitability nicely up from on a comparable EBITDA margin from 10.5% to 11% and on the EBITDA from 10.3% to 10.8%.

We had a good growth in the service business that gives us good hope, good connection with the customers, definitely excellent basis to grow that further. The increasing activities in Q4 led to two very important orders for us. We received orders for two complete pulp mills in China. That is that’s, I would say, a very good success, also shows the appreciation of the market of our technology and the advantage the customers see to buy the complete pulp mill system from hundreds. As I said, the revenue decrease is based is due to the fact that the large pulp mill order is approaching at the end.

For sure, I would say the record ramp up of our latest pulp mill in Brazil for Susano set a new industry benchmark. Plate capacity of that asset was reached after five months of operation. Never seen that before. Proves the excellent cooperation we have with our customer, Susano, but definitely also supported by our full automation and simulation package that could help the operators a lot during this ramp up phase. If we move to Metals, I would say twelve months ago, I also reported to you that the markets, the automotive side, on the steel side were, I would say, very subdued.

This changed in course of the year, which ended up that we could recover on the order intake in the Q4. So we had an increase of 6% compared to 23% even though over the full year, we are missing a gap of 15%. Revenue remained stable because we had a very good backup. I would say excellent cost control in this area. We did, I would say, decisive actions to reduce capacities in Germany.

That’s on the way. On the costs, we have had to take the provisions needed to do that in Germany, which I would say affected the reported EBITA margin. But if we look to the comparable EBITA margin, you could see that we are from improved from 5.1% to 5.5%. So I would say we are on a good way. With the cost reductions initiated coming into full swing this and the next year, we definitely are very positive that we will be in our target range very soon.

We had an excellent performance in the service, a record high order intake and sales in our service business, and we saw particularly strong growth in China. As you know, while the automotive industry in Europe is rather in a very difficult situation, a lot of business is going on in China, and we are very happy that we can be part of that good market development. Hydropower is, I would say, fully exploiting the good development of the market at a year in ’twenty four. Order intake in total, billion, seven percent up. Order backlog even 16% up.

Only, as already said, revenue only slight because the first year of a typical hydro order only a very low sales recognition, but this will build up over the time. The profitability is increasing. Also here, we need to follow the slow development of the new orders that we take. We have some, I would say, some old projects that need to be pushed out from our backlog in order to give the room for the margins to improve. I would say we are in a good way there.

We won, I would say, a very sizable large scale project in Q4 in the EMEA region. We hope that we can provide more details on that in the weeks to come. Revenue, EBITDA, profitability, I told you the so I would say we are on a good way there. The market looks favorable, and we see a good trend. We see the mode of partnership between our customers and us in the hydropower sector moving from project to project, single transactions more into partnership modes.

So we have signed basic, for example, with Hydro Quebec a framework agreement for projects over the next eight to ten years to come, which gives us a better view on the future and also makes it more likely that we can work as partners to the benefit of the project. So I would say we have a good we will have a good outlook there. Environment and Energy also definitely highlight of our of the last year. Strong growth in order intake and in revenue, 8% in order intake, 15% in revenue. We could see a significant growth across all the industries we are serving, and we see a continuing demand in the products we are supplying there.

Profitability is very high even though we have, I would say, rather high R and D costs at the moment. As you know, within environment and energy, a certain amount of our new products are included there, the green hydrogen, the carbon capture venture. So that usually takes a lot of development work. However, margins with 11.4% on comparable sorry, 11.1% comparable to 11.3% reported margins very high and supported for sure by a very good service business, which we could also grow and see good potential to grow that further. Coming to the future guidance for ’twenty five, we would like to give you guidance for the revenue for the upcoming for this business here from billion to billion.

And the comparable EBITA margin, we are forecasting from 8.6 to 9%. We want to point out specifically that we changed the guidance from reported margin to comparable because I think it makes it more easy for everybody, also for you to take out these one offs that not really that are not recurring effects and is basically maybe distracting sometimes the view on the actual figure. So we changed from reported to comparable EBITA margin. We believe that within this revenue guidance, we are safe to land. We hope that we can narrow that down over the year we are talking to you.

On the 2027 targets, we would like to revise the midterm outlook a bit. We see a revenue target grow to from billion to billion. We have it basically divided in two parts, what we call the base grow from the, let’s say, increasing demand on the green products, normal, smaller sized M and As, yes, yes, the regular growth that we see in the service business and also some expansion on the capital sales. And then we see, let’s say, this extra effort, what we can if there comes from, for example, from these investments initiatives announced in some of our own markets for the green production, Any large scale orders for hydro or for pulp and paper or large scale M and A would then lift us up to that. Revenue level.

On the EBITA, these numbers are now for the comparable EBITDA margin and not to the reported EBITDA margin, just for to be clear where we are. Picture basically has not changed in pulp and paper and environment and energy. We are basically in the target range. In hydropower and metals, we are not there, but I would say within reach and in a good way. And we are optimistic if we stay close on our strategy, good execution, cost awareness that we can reach the targets.

As we point out to you, so if we summarize the new midterm targets ’27, we see revenue between €9,000,000,000 and €10,000,000,000 comparable EBITA margin above 9%. And if the markets that we can only create to a very small amount. If the markets are there, we are very confident to reach that. So thank you very much for that, and I believe we are open for questions. I hand back to Matthias to guide us through.

Matthias Feifenberger, Head of Investor Relations, Andritz: Thank you, Doctor. Schoenberg, and to our Executive Board members for the elaborations, and we’ll start the Q and A sessions right away. Please note that you need to register with your full name to be able to ask a question. Like Chorus Call to go ahead. Thank

Dr. Joachim Schonberg, CEO, Andritz: you. Gentlemen,

Moderator: we will now begin the question and answer session. Any questions to ask a question from the webinar may click the Q and A button on the left side of the screen and then click the raise your hand button. If you are connected via phone, please press star followed by zero on your telephone keypad. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press the lower your hand button or press star two by phone. Anyone who has a question makes you up now.

One moment for the first question, please. And the first question comes from Akash Gupta from JPMorgan. Please go ahead.

Akash Gupta, Analyst, JPMorgan: Yes. Hi. Good morning, everybody. I have few and I’ll ask one at a time. So my first one is on your change in guidance parameter.

So you are now going to adjusted EBITDA from reported EBITDA, which I think may make sense given most of the company’s guide on underlying numbers. But maybe a question if you can tell us about the need for restructuring in the coming years because you already took quite a large restructuring charge in 2024. So maybe if you can talk about what sort of restructuring we should expect in ’twenty five, ’twenty six, ’twenty seven to get to reported EBITA from adjusted EBITA that you’re guiding? That’s the first one. Thank you.

Dr. Joachim Schonberg, CEO, Andritz: So we have I would say the capacity adjustments we had in mind have been initiated, have been announced. We are now in the process of executing that. So we will see in ’twenty five that the majority of these capacities will be adjusted, and then we will see the full year P and L effect definitely latest from ’twenty six onwards. There is at the moment, there is nothing more that is under planning.

Akash Gupta, Analyst, JPMorgan: And then my second question is on your more than 9% margin target for 2027. So like once again, if we take 2024 revenues and take the midpoint of individual segment guidance, I mean, the midpoint shall apply would translate in why you are still sticking with 9%, why not raising margin target to above 9% to more like 10% level?

Dr. Joachim Schonberg, CEO, Andritz: So we would be happy to report that your calculation is better than ours and we can be at 10%. Percent. I would say we say greater 9%. We also, I would say, we see that not everything is in our hands, and we definitely see at the moment in a world where you’re not very sure what is what will be the biggest news the next day. So I think we feel confident on the 9% to deliver on that, And you can be sure we will be happy to overachieve that.

Akash Gupta, Analyst, JPMorgan: And my last question is on any exposure to defense sector in any of your businesses because you have maybe from outside, you have a big metal business. And if there are new investments in ammunition, is there any benefit that we might see to your metal business or maybe any other business that may also benefit from higher defense spending in Europe?

Dr. Joachim Schonberg, CEO, Andritz: Yes. We are not a defense contractor, but we know that some of our customers are supplying the defense sector. And for sure, shell lines for ammunition is they’re based on forging and metals forming. So for sure, our business is positively affected by that.

Moderator: Then the next question comes from Sven Weier from UBS. Please go ahead.

Sven Weier, Analyst, UBS: Yes, good morning. Thanks for taking my questions. The first one is the usual question around the pulp mega mills. Maybe you can walk us through a little bit more detail on the activity level. I mean, we could see last year end of last year that Brasel is applying for the environmental permit.

And I guess this usually takes twelve months. So would you say that you would see the mega mill activity picking up somewhere in the second half of this year? That’s the first one. Thank you.

Dr. Joachim Schonberg, CEO, Andritz: So I would say I cannot talk about individual customer projects because that is they want a certain confidentiality, which we do not would like to break. You can ask the public listed companies. You can ask in their calls what we could see in Q in the second half of last year, three complete pulp mills have been on the market. The one was in Brazil that we lost to, where in China, we won that. So apparently, there is a market, and we also see a pickup of project activity, as I said, across all industries and that includes pulp and paper.

Sven Weier, Analyst, UBS: Okay. Fair enough. Thank you. The second question was just on metals and was just wondering on the auto exposure that you have. I mean, obviously, sentiment is weak, But

Christophe Dolerscheil, Analyst, HSBC: would

Sven Weier, Analyst, UBS: you say this business activity is at a trough when you see signs of improvement? Or is that too early to see any green shoots there?

Dr. Joachim Schonberg, CEO, Andritz: We see improvements. We saw a very low investment activity in automotive and automotive related in the first half of last year. We see a pickup. We see Chinese carmakers moving to Europe, not only with their cars but also with production assets. As I said, as we are a supplier to them in China, we see also that we can get a share of that once they’re coming to Europe.

I would say if the economy in total would increase in Europe, also the automotive industry will improve. And with the installed base that we have and the installed base our customers have, that’s definitely a big opportunity also for our service business because if you do not go for new investments, then, of course, the repair and maintenance costs will increase. And with our, I would say, the good service coverage we have in Western Europe, we definitely can also take a share there.

Sven Weier, Analyst, UBS: Thank you. And the last question I have is just coming back also to the previous question on the defense exposure. I mean, not sure if you can actually quantify whether we talk like 1% of your group sales or 5%. And the other question I have, obviously, when you look at the plants in Germany, not only a big defense stimulus, but also for the economy as a whole, right? I mean, infrastructure and possibly other things on climate transition.

I mean, that all falls also in some of your neighborhoods in terms of customers. I mean, what’s your sense that this could really have a broad positive effect also how your customers feel in Europe as a whole that Germany is seen as a kind of an engine for the coming years and that a lot of projects that have been on hold could start to move ahead on this? Or any thoughts on that would be appreciated.

Dr. Joachim Schonberg, CEO, Andritz: So as a European citizen, I can only hope that Europe will again be the engine of Europe because if the largest economy is struggling, I would say Europe in total is definitely in a difficult position. So I’m quite happy that we have now two parties in Germany that apparently are very constructively talking. And considering the high speed with which they made the decisions over the past two weeks tells us that they apparently picked up the sense of urgency we somehow were missing in the previous years. So I would say I’m not I’m quite confident that investment decision in that climate will probably be made more rapidly in Germany. We have announced, I think, two or three years two, three days ago, we have announced another large order for a green hydrogen plant that is where we have the engineering order now, final investment decision pending.

So I would say projects like that definitely will be supported by that, I would say, general sentiment.

Sven Weier, Analyst, UBS: And the defense exposure, would you say that’s really

Dr. Joachim Schonberg, CEO, Andritz: like 1% or

Sven Weier, Analyst, UBS: 2% of it?

Dr. Joachim Schonberg, CEO, Andritz: Sorry, but I do not have a number to provide. But as I said, forging metal, metal forming and heat treatment might be demand picking up.

Moderator: And the next question comes from Lars von Klaff from Deutsche Bank of

Lars von Klaff, Analyst, Deutsche Bank: and paper industry and your customers. I mean, you already said you’re not commenting on individual customers. You expect more orders to come, all fine. But do you fear that currently rising interest rates could postpone some of the orders you are hoping for? And also, I would be interested in your view that I mean, Susano seems to have said lately that it expects capacity to exceed demand for pulp at least for the next five years, given new capacity coming on stream in China.

Is that something you’re hearing as well? Or would you rather expect demand and therefore your order intake for large pulp and paper orders picking up again?

Dr. Joachim Schonberg, CEO, Andritz: Okay. So I’m reading the same press releases as you do. And we have a strong belief, and that’s also what we pick up from the industries we are delivering to. Pulp will be and will remain one of the strongest products to substitute plastics in many applications we see today. So I would say it’s not only the paper and board exposure.

It’s much more that where pulp fibers will be needed. So my our view on the long run is really more positive, yeah, yeah, than assuming there will be an oversupply in five years. If we look to the pulp prices, they don’t give that sentiment. Interest rates, if they increase, that usually always hurts investment. No need, nobody will be surprised about that.

But I would say the many more applications we see out of pulp give us a positive hope. On the paper side, we had seen many mill closures, especially in Europe, over the past years. They have bottomed out, so they are ramping up production again, which means they also earn money. And if they earn money, there is also, on their side, usually, they need there is demand on modernization. So this is, I would say, why we are not looking very negatively to the markets right now and also not to pulp and paper.

Lars von Klaff, Analyst, Deutsche Bank: And then maybe a quick follow-up question. I mean, modeling this year, you’re guiding for flat group revenue at best rather for a slight decline. I assume given the size of your pipe and paper business and order intake in 2024, the majority of that negative headwind for revenues we should see in the pipe and paper division, correct?

Dr. Joachim Schonberg, CEO, Andritz: I would say, I cannot really I don’t know. I have not calculated that number. I have to ask my number specialist.

Norbert Netesheim, Outgoing CFO, Andritz: Yes, you are right. You are right.

Lars von Klaff, Analyst, Deutsche Bank: Okay, perfect.

Norbert Netesheim, Outgoing CFO, Andritz: As a simple rule, order intake will determine sales, And this rule is also happening next year in our company.

Lars von Klaff, Analyst, Deutsche Bank: Perfect. Thank you very much. I’ll go back into the line.

Moderator: And the next question comes from Christophe Dolerscheil from HSBC. Please go ahead.

Christophe Dolerscheil, Analyst, HSBC: Good morning, everyone. So my first question is again on the twenty fifth.

Dr. Joachim Schonberg, CEO, Andritz: You’re breaking up.

Moderator: Mr. Doleshar, your line is still open, but we cannot hear you right now. Yes. Very quietly. One second.

Maybe we can hear you now better. Please try again.

Christophe Dolerscheil, Analyst, HSBC: Can you hear me? Because my on my end, it should be working quite fine.

Dr. Joachim Schonberg, CEO, Andritz: If you can speak up a bit, we can

Norbert Netesheim, Outgoing CFO, Andritz: hear now.

Christophe Dolerscheil, Analyst, HSBC: Is it better now?

Dr. Joachim Schonberg, CEO, Andritz: No, it’s excellent. Thank you.

Christophe Dolerscheil, Analyst, HSBC: Hello. Can you hear me?

Lars von Klaff, Analyst, Deutsche Bank: Yes.

Norbert Netesheim, Outgoing CFO, Andritz: Go ahead.

Christophe Dolerscheil, Analyst, HSBC: Can you hear me now? Yes? Okay.

Dr. Joachim Schonberg, CEO, Andritz: Loud and clear.

Christophe Dolerscheil, Analyst, HSBC: Okay, perfect. Thanks very much. Sorry for that. So on the 2025 guidance, you talk about successful bolt on M and A. So does the guidance of 8,000,000,000 to 8,300,000,000.0 actually include some M and A or is it organic?

Dr. Joachim Schonberg, CEO, Andritz: Guidance includes what we know now. That’s the LDX acquisition that I informed you about we made in January. Anything else would be on top.

Christophe Dolerscheil, Analyst, HSBC: Okay. Thanks for clarifying that. Then on the 2027 targets, so basically you slightly revised your revenue targets. And could you also tell us where that is mainly coming from? Because originally, we talked about SEK 10,000,000,000.

Now we talk SEK 9,000,000,000 to SEK 10,000,000,000. And the question is where which segment that comes from mainly?

Dr. Joachim Schonberg, CEO, Andritz: So we did not attribute the discount to a specific segment or industry. I would say it is a more cautious approach to projections in the future, more taking into consideration the, I would say, the very economic and political volatile environment we are currently in.

Christophe Dolerscheil, Analyst, HSBC: Okay. So all segments, I would say then. And then two little ones because we talked about defense. I also recall that you have some nuclear exposure. And if you recall, it is about 1%.

Is that still the case?

Dr. Joachim Schonberg, CEO, Andritz: Yes.

Christophe Dolerscheil, Analyst, HSBC: Okay. And last but not least, the Evergreen Paracel. I mean, we’ve seen, let’s say, last month there was some chatter around that Paracel is seeking for other investors to probably even sell the majority stake in the business, which doesn’t read that well if you’re trying to sell 51% of the business because of, say, cost overhauls. What I mean, how is that currently pending out on your side? Are you still speaking to them?

Are you still in the phase of thinking it’s going to happen? Or is the likelihood declining from your end or in your view?

Dr. Joachim Schonberg, CEO, Andritz: I cannot comment on that further. Yes. We are talking to all our customers and but we cannot as I said, we will not comment on individual orders.

Christophe Dolerscheil, Analyst, HSBC: Okay. But because it’s such an important order, and I think the market has, at least from what I see, baked it into the numbers now, at least from my end, it sounds a bit more cautious than it probably did three months ago. Would you agree to that?

Dr. Joachim Schonberg, CEO, Andritz: As I said, I cannot comment on that.

Christophe Dolerscheil, Analyst, HSBC: Okay. Okay, thanks. I’ll go back online.

Dr. Joachim Schonberg, CEO, Andritz: Good.

Moderator: And the next question comes from Daniel Lyon from Essa Group. Please go ahead.

Daniel Lyon, Analyst, Essa Group: Yeah. Hi, good morning. Actually, I would be interested in your capital structure and what you actually plan to do with or what your target is in terms of equity ratio. You’re actually moving it up quarter by quarter more or less. Now it’s 27% already.

Are you seeing any larger M and A transactions

Sven Weier, Analyst, UBS: somewhere

Daniel Lyon, Analyst, Essa Group: close to materialize? Or how do you expect actually to or where do you want to go or grow your equity base and your liquidity in the end?

Norbert Netesheim, Outgoing CFO, Andritz: Okay, Daniel, thanks for the question. This increase in equity is simply coming out of the game. It’s we did a good result and this lead at the end to equity increase as long as you don’t pay dividends or don’t buy share backs. The group is well financed, so we are not planning to take further debt on board as long as we don’t have a huge investment. So all the bolt ons we can do out of the cash flow means we continue what we did.

We continue to be committed to a stable and good dividend. We are committed to organic growth as before. And we take what we we do what we can with regard to M and A. And as long as we can finance it out of our current balance sheet, we do it from the current balance sheet. As for the case that we need debt for a large investment, we will take it.

The banks are ready to support us. So all is open. Nothing new. Topic is very simply the opportunities which are available in the M and A area. We are happy to tackle everything what makes sense for us.

So nothing new. We are well prepared.

Daniel Lyon, Analyst, Essa Group: Okay. So basically it’s just development there. Okay. I understand. Thank you very much.

That’s it. Thanks, it. Bye.

Matthias Feifenberger, Head of Investor Relations, Andritz: Okay.

Moderator: So there are currently no more questions in the queue. So I would hand back to Matthias Feifenberger.

Matthias Feifenberger, Head of Investor Relations, Andritz: Yes. Thanks a lot for your interest and for your questions. I think this concludes the earnings call today, and I hand back to Doctor. Schoenberg for concluding remarks.

Dr. Joachim Schonberg, CEO, Andritz: So thank you very much for attending the call, and we hope that we can provide you more good news when we see you next time in two months. Thank you very much.

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