Earnings call transcript: Jocina Business Q3 2025 sees rental income growth

Jocina Business, with a market capitalization of €7.1 billion, reported a solid performance in its Q3 2025 earnings call, highlighting a notable increase in rental income and strategic financial moves, such as the issuance of a green bond. The company secured €60 million in annual rents from office leasing and issued a €500 million ten-year green bond. Despite these positive developments, the broader market reaction remains cautious, reflecting ongoing challenges in the real estate sector. According to InvestingPro analysis, the company maintains a strong financial health score of GOOD, supported by its impressive 6.63% dividend yield and 46-year history of consecutive dividend payments.

Key Takeaways

• Jocina Business achieved a 4% increase in rental income.
• A significant 9% rental uplift was noted across the office portfolio.
• The company issued a €500 million green bond at a record low spread.
• The French political context continues to impact real estate decisions.
• The company maintains a strong focus on prime, centrally located buildings.

Company Performance

Jocina Business demonstrated resilience in Q3 2025, with a strong focus on rental income growth and strategic financial management. The company’s success in securing substantial annual rents and issuing a green bond underscores its robust position in a challenging market. While the office market in Paris is near the bottom of its take-up cycle, Jocina remains focused on maintaining its competitive advantage through prime, efficient, and centrally located buildings.

Financial Highlights

• Rental income: Increased by 4% on a current basis
• Like-for-like performance: 3.7% increase
• Rental uplift: 9% across office portfolio
• Green bond issuance: €500 million at 85 bps spread

Outlook & Guidance

Jocina Business remains confident in the stability of its rental income, with a net recurring income guidance of $6.65 to $6.7 per share. The company plans to continue focusing on its current portfolio without immediate diversification. While new development pipelines are limited, Jocina expects market stabilization in the office sector.

Executive Commentary

CEO Benniet Ortega emphasized the long-term nature of real estate decisions, stating, "Real estate decisions are long term decisions. They commit for six, nine, ten years most of the time." Ortega also highlighted the current market conditions, noting, "We are pretty close to the lowest level of take up historically on the whole Paris region." These comments reflect the company’s strategic focus on stability and expertise in navigating market challenges.

Risks and Challenges

• Political uncertainty in France affecting real estate decisions.
• Increasing vacancy rates in the office market.
• Limited new development pipeline impacting growth potential.
• Potential valuation impacts due to market conditions.
• Occupancy challenges in specific locations, such as Boulogne.

Jocina Business continues to navigate a complex market environment with a focus on maintaining its competitive edge in prime real estate locations. The company’s strategic initiatives, coupled with a strong financial footing, position it well to weather ongoing challenges in the sector. For detailed insights into Jocina’s performance metrics and future prospects, access the comprehensive Pro Research Report, available exclusively on InvestingPro, along with expert analysis covering 1,400+ top stocks.

Full transcript - Gecina SA (GFC) Q3 2025:

Conference Moderator: Hello, and welcome to Jocina Business at 09/30/2025. For the first part of the conference call, the participants will be in listen only mode. During the questions and answer session, participants are able to ask questions by dialing 5 on their telephone keypad. Today, we have Benniet Ortega, CEO and Nicola Dutroy, Deputy CEO in charge of finance, as our presenters. I will now hand you over to your host, Beniet Ortega, to begin today’s conference.

Thank you.

Benniet Ortega, CEO, Jocina Business: Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining the call this morning to review our activity for the 2025. Some key highlights we would like to emphasize. Regarding office leasing, even during this complex French political context, we secured 114,000 square meters year to date, already more than a third of last year total. Leasing activity spans on all our geographies, generating €60,000,000 in annual rents. Regarding residential leasing, nearly 1,300 leases have been found year to date, confirming the relevance of our portfolio transformation towards service departments to deliver efficient, collaborative and modern class.

This clearly meets the growing demand from students, young professionals, families and corporates. We are proud to continue to capture strong rental uplift and outperform indexation, plus 9% across the office portfolio, including plus 28% in the extended CBD and an impressive 14% on Tar Heelan residential portfolio. Over the first nine months, we recorded a plus 4% increase in rental income on a current basis. This growth was driven by a solid 3.7% like for like performance supported by the positive contribution from our 2024 and 2025 deliveries like Mondo, 35 Captische, NoiCon. The performance is still very strong in Paris in the e portfolio, 78% of our portfolio across all drivers, rental uplift, occupancy gains.

And that’s where we are very proactive and innovative to retain tenants, define the right products, implement specific leading initiatives. A few other key highlights for the quarter. First, we tactically strengthened our financial structure with the successful issuance of a EUR500 million ten year green bond at very attractive conditions in late July. We achieved a record low 85 bid spread for ten year bond thanks to our A- rating and excellent timing of execution. Along with the early redemption of nearly €530,000,000 of 2027 and 2028 maturities, we now benefit from longer debt maturity, rate of indemnity and lower costs secured over the long term.

Second, we finalized the payment agreement with ENGIE that was presented in July. Fundamentally, we will support our tenants’ transition while actively monitoring the period to secure today’s rental income until June 2027, the nominal end of the lease, and minimize vacancy during the repositioning, so that T1 Towers should be available for leasing after renovation during H1 twenty twenty eight, only some months after ENGIE’s expiry. Lastly, we are proud to have maintained our five star rating and now ranked first in our peer group in the GRESB index, confirming our position as European leader in future proof real estate. And as you can see, we continue to execute our strategy with productivity, discipline and consistency. We can confirm our guidance with a net recurring income expected between $6.65 to $6.7 per share.

And thank you for your attention, and we are very happy to answer your question

Conference Moderator: The next question comes from Valerie Jacob from Bernstein. Please go ahead.

Valerie Jacob, Analyst, Bernstein: Hello. Good morning, and thank you for the presentation. I just had a question on your occupancy in outside of Pice. I just wanted to understand what you expect going forward. Do you think it’s going to continue to improve?

Or shall we expect more departure? That’s my question. Thank

Benniet Ortega, CEO, Jocina Business: Thank you, Valerie, for your question. Listen, like we were quite open on that front, We have seen signs of departure, especially in Boulogne, basically twenty years after delivery of those assets. We have already released probably twothree of what was vacated in the last two years, and we are still on leasing on that. So obviously, we can’t comment leases before signing them, but we are clearly on it. Elsewhere, like I said, big chunk will be T1 Tower, but that will be more for twenty twenty seven, twenty twenty eight.

So it should fluctuate, but medium term, we are quite confident to cope with the situation.

Valerie Jacob, Analyst, Bernstein: Okay. Fine. But so you’re relating the currently vacant space, but you’re not expecting any more meaningful departure within the next two years?

Benniet Ortega, CEO, Jocina Business: Those are the biggest ones. Obviously, we have a wide portfolio, so we can have departures, but I think those two are the most critical ones.

Valerie Jacob, Analyst, Bernstein: Okay. Thank you. And I’ve just got a second question on the Engie Tower in La Defense. In terms of the rent that you will be targeting, how is it compared to the current rents that Engie is paying? Because I think it’s quite high.

Benniet Ortega, CEO, Jocina Business: Yeah. Obviously, we are still defining, in fact, both the product the targets. We will have a negative down lift compared to the existing lease. Space crane pro prime towers in La Defense are pretty sticky. So obviously, ENGIE is paying high rent after a year of indexation, but we don’t see a huge drop, but obviously, a double digit decrease.

Yes.

Conference Moderator: The next question comes from Florent LaRocheaux Baer from Auto BHF.

Florent LaRocheaux Baer, Analyst, Auto BHF: I would have two questions. The first question, so was on your leasing activity that it has been quite you have been quite active in leasing for the first nine months of the year. In the same time, so today, in France, we have some political instability, if we can say like that. So could you maybe tell us say a word on how it could impact today your interactions with your tenants? And maybe I will ask that my second question.

Benniet Ortega, CEO, Jocina Business: Yes, listen, obviously, like I said, the context is complex to read. It might delay a bit decision making processes on the corporate side. But as you saw, in fact, we have been capable to sign a lot of leases during those nine months. I think if you think on the client side, real estate decisions are long term decisions. They commit for six, nine, ten years most of the time.

And at the same time, they have corporate strategies regarding return to the office optimization, sometimes of their footprint, changing their organization, AI, digital and so on. So I think they are still delivering their strategy and their real estate strategy in line with their global strategy. So at some point it might delay some time, but in the end they commit on those new services. Yes, it’s more complex, would be easier to have a more stable situation, But so far, having prime, efficient, centrally located buildings has played a role to sustain our activity.

Florent LaRocheaux Baer, Analyst, Auto BHF: Okay. I guess maybe my second question would be on the investment side. So in that context, what how do you see the activity on the investment side? And what is your appetite? And maybe as a consequence of that, do you anticipate the evolution of the valuation of assets in Paris for offices?

Benniet Ortega, CEO, Jocina Business: On the valuation, too it’s early to say. I think we’ll have the first rise by valuers some weeks from now. So I will not opine on future valuation. What we see on the market is clearly a strong appetite for prime target assets. You saw Blackstone confirming the acquisition on Kleber Procadero and we have seen a series of buildings well located and quite well priced.

So the market is progressively regaining liquidity, but it’s not as fluid as five years ago. And in that context, obviously, we as an operator in that market, we try to be agile, so we’re taking profits out of that situation.

Conference Moderator: The next question comes from Amala Boukouatim from Degroof Petercam.

Amala Boukouatim, Analyst, Degroof Petercam: Good morning. Thank you for taking my question. Perhaps just to follow-up on finance question on the letting market. So I understand the activity remains, let’s say, decent given the current context in France. But do you see more discussion on the level of rent or the level of incentives that you have to give to sustain the level of activity?

Benniet Ortega, CEO, Jocina Business: Thank you for your question. No, we don’t see a major shift in negotiation, both on what you saw on our uplift numbers for the first three quarters, but also what we see on the market. So obviously, there is a premium for prime and efficient and centrally located buildings. So on those, even on the competition, we have seen record high transactions in Paris CBD and in the rest of Paris, large head office like you saw Luxottica moving its head office from the Eastern Paris region to Downtown Paris. We have seen JPMorgan.

So a series of these pretty high and low incentives. And obviously, on the rest of the portfolio, vacancy is pretty high, economical rents are still facing challenges. So I would say the trend is a bit the same, while a lower activity.

Amala Boukouatim, Analyst, Degroof Petercam: Okay. So I can understand that the situation is even more difficult out of the CBD and centrally located areas?

Benniet Ortega, CEO, Jocina Business: I would say it’s quite valuable from a location to another. Typically, what we saw in La Defense was pretty active leasing in La Defense and Boulogne. So the market is pretty free there even if rents are not increasing, but there is a take up and strong demand, maybe a bit better than like two or three years ago. AXA BNP just took a big portion of lease in La Defense. So the market is quite fragmented, I think.

Some locations are still facing high difficulties and some others, when they are well located on top of transportation, are still performing okay. I think this is where looking at the averages might not be the most efficient way to understand the situation. I think it’s quite valuable from a location to another. So overall, the market is clearly decelerating, but in some locations, it’s accelerating.

Amala Boukouatim, Analyst, Degroof Petercam: If I may just have a

Benniet Ortega, CEO, Jocina Business: second question On on

Valerie Jacob, Analyst, Bernstein: the ENGIE

Amala Boukouatim, Analyst, Degroof Petercam: deal that we you had, just to make sure I understand correctly. So now contractually, they are committed to pay the rent until June 2027, but they could vacate the bidding a bit earlier to allow you to stop the renovation and modernization work a bit earlier. How would that impact the level of, let’s say, rent and cash you are expecting? Would that be half a year you could sacrifice to get, let’s say, an early delivery of the project? How do you see it happening?

Benniet Ortega, CEO, Jocina Business: Obviously, it’s a confidential agreement, so I would just give the principles of them. We have, through that deal, secured the rents until the end of the current lease. So there is no rental income change on our side through that transaction. They will vacate the building earlier, so we’ll be able to start the renovation work earlier. It depends on when the employees are leaving definitively the building, so that’s why we have been saying that it will depend when the last employees are leaving the tower.

And on the energy side, obviously, having the tower on the works will save a significant amount of service charges because the asset will not be under operations. And that’s what has been the driver on their side to make the idea. So on our side, we secure the rent and we see if it works. And on their side, they do savings on operations from the day their employees are leaving the end of the lease. That’s basically the principles of the

Conference Moderator: The next question comes from Stephanie Dossmann from Jefferies.

Valerie Jacob, Analyst, Bernstein: Just to clarify on the T1 Tower. If I’m correct, there are subletters of 20% of the space. So I was wondering about the reposition works you will do on the tower. Are you able to split the works? How does it work, I mean, in fact?

And what is currently your discussions with the company subletting the 20% of the space? Will they stay? Will they leave? How does it work, please?

Benniet Ortega, CEO, Jocina Business: I will not comment on the conversation we have currently on the sublettee, but the principality impact ENGIE is leasing two buildings, T1 that we have talked a lot, and B Buildings, but they don’t occupy the B Building, it’s the sublettee. So the deal we’ve made was on T1, which is where ENGIE employees are, and then we leave and we will restructure. On the B Building, which is an independent building next to T1, We are obviously discussing with the existing subletting to see if they wanna stay or not, an old building or a portion of it. So so that’s what we are proactively engaging with the subletting.

Valerie Jacob, Analyst, Bernstein: Okay. Thank you. Second question

Thierry Cherrill, Analyst, Tixis CIB: would be

Valerie Jacob, Analyst, Bernstein: relating yes, can you hear me?

Benniet Ortega, CEO, Jocina Business: Yes, sure.

Valerie Jacob, Analyst, Bernstein: Okay. My second question would be related to the rent level, I would say, the market. So currently, how do you see the market evolving in the CBD? We have seen market data showing increasing vacancy in the CBD. So how do you see the market level, I would say, for the rents evolving going forward?

Do you see it stoppage or not? And maybe on Boulogne, what would be the the reversion on your portfolio currently?

Benniet Ortega, CEO, Jocina Business: On range levels on the in the CBD, you know, I’ve been, since I came at this now, quite positively surprised quarter after quarter on the rent. And and, obviously, typically, the acquisition we made on on Solstice, now named Signature, we have not, bet on future increase of ERVs on that zone. But what we see on the ground is that for the prime, most efficient, better located buildings, rents have even increased during these 2025. So the last divide, JPMorgan and Datadog on two prime assets have been north of $1,200 so probably $12.50 dollars $1,300 So that’s for the best assets. There is still scarcity and there is still increasing in the RVs.

And on the rest, I think we have seen and we have been looking at the averages, we have more than 50% of the leases that have been signed during 2025, which are north of EUR1000 per square meter. So the whole market on top of super prime, the average of CBD has increased also in terms of market trends during 2025. There is an increase in vacancy, obviously, but still decent take up. So we will monitor the situation during the next months, but it it doesn’t look to be somehow as negative as what I have shown to when when reading your some reports.

Valerie Jacob, Analyst, Bernstein: Thank you. And on Boulogne, please?

Benniet Ortega, CEO, Jocina Business: And in Boulogne, like I said, a good portion of the billings have been vacated in the last two years, and we have released, let’s say, two thirds of our current market conditions. So I would say, one, there is no specific reversionary potential or down lease because most of the leases are pretty recent. And on the right, but then we need to lease them and that would be less at market conditions. So no specific disclosure on reversion in Boulogne basically because most of the current leases are at current market conditions.

Valerie Jacob, Analyst, Bernstein: All right. Thank you.

Benniet Ortega, CEO, Jocina Business: You’re welcome.

Conference Moderator: The next question comes from Thierry Cherrill from the Tixis CIB. Please go ahead.

Thierry Cherrill, Analyst, Tixis CIB: Hello, do you hear me?

Benniet Ortega, CEO, Jocina Business: Yes. Yes.

Thierry Cherrill, Analyst, Tixis CIB: Thank you very much for taking my question. I wonder if you think about diversifying your portfolio exposure out of the office and maybe out also of the residential? Thank you.

Benniet Ortega, CEO, Jocina Business: Not specifically. Think if you think about the REIT, I think we need to be fully expert of what we do. I think all the conversation we had shows that you need to have a high professionalism, understanding perfectly the markets where we are, and that’s what we try to do on our two businesses. And second, I think like we saw on the third piece acquisition or development pipeline, we still have room, strategic room to grow and improve our company in the two asset classes where we are and the locations where we are. So for the time being, no specific willingness to do something that will less master than what we do today.

Thierry Cherrill, Analyst, Tixis CIB: My second question is do you intend to increase your development pipeline going forward?

Benniet Ortega, CEO, Jocina Business: Not specifically. As you saw, we already launched four big projects on top of T1 Tower that will come, so I think we are pretty loaded there. On the existing portfolio, we don’t see major refer to come in the next two or three years on top of what we have launched. And then it will depend on our investment activity. So if we are always monitoring the market to buy assets on which we can create value and create alpha, but specifically on the current portfolio, not much.

Thierry Cherrill, Analyst, Tixis CIB: Have you bid on Crocadero assets?

Benniet Ortega, CEO, Jocina Business: No. Like you saw, it was the Blackstone buying it.

Thierry Cherrill, Analyst, Tixis CIB: Mhmm. Yep. Okay. Thank you. And and maybe last point.

Looking at the negative net absorption on the Paris office, even inner Paris office market, I wonder when the bottom will be reached. What’s your perspective about that?

Benniet Ortega, CEO, Jocina Business: I think we are pretty close to the lowest level of take up historically on the whole Paris region, by the way. I think probably we are at the bottom of that leading market. We are interacting a lot with leading agents. So so, yes, I think we are we are close to the bottom. But as I said, very depends on location.

The market is fluid in a series of locations and more quiet on some others. If you escalate a bit on the understanding of the market, what has decreased a lot in the global take up of the Paris region is lost transaction on the outskirts. And probably we’ll have 50 connections above 5,000 kilometers on the old market, very concentrated on Paris and La Defense. And probably that’s a low point, it should increase again following the return to the office announcement by the large corporates. And the fact that we will have lease expiries from twenty fifteen, seventeen, eighteen that has been quite active leading years in the past and will probably lead to some more moves from those large corporates on the outskirts.

Yes, I think we are pretty close to the low point.

Thierry Cherrill, Analyst, Tixis CIB: Okay. And I could conclude that it’s also your point of view about the optimization of office footprint from large corporates.

Benniet Ortega, CEO, Jocina Business: Yes. We are following one data which is when you divide the take up, how many companies are increasing footprint or flattening footprint or declining footprint? Two or three years ago, the majority of tenants were decreasing footprint when signing a new lease. Now we have companies declining footprint, it’s probably 15% to 20% still and that’s sometimes because they have less employees. Most of them are flat and 30% are increasing footprint.

So if there is one inflection point in the market, it’s the fact that we are the decreasing phase more behind us than in front of us based on the recent data from Walker.

Thierry Cherrill, Analyst, Tixis CIB: Thank you.

Benniet Ortega, CEO, Jocina Business: You’re welcome.

Conference Moderator: The next question comes from Jonathan Koner from Goldman Sachs. Just

Jonathan Koner, Analyst, Goldman Sachs: one more question on new supply, please. Can you help us understand if there’s still some new supply coming through and whether there’s a new supply that is competing with your product in the CBD? Or you don’t think that supply is actually competing? And how do you think that’s going to be absorbed? And when do you see new supply tailing off?

Thanks.

Benniet Ortega, CEO, Jocina Business: Thank you, Jonathan. On new supply, I think we like I commented previously, we have, let’s say, two main leading strategies on the CBD. One, which is for small surfaces being at the highest point of the quality by giving operated offices. So fully furnished, fully equipped, fully serviced offices. And on that, performances are excellent because you don’t see so much qualitative offer facing our offer.

So the average small surface quality in the CBD is pretty poor. So that’s why we are reaching pretty high level of athletes and quick relocation and releasing. On the large surfaces, most of the portfolio have been secured over the last two or three years, like the Mondo, the Icon, but we have done also renewals recently. So our next challenge is signature, so Solstice acquisition. And on that, we don’t see much competition with large floor plates, service and efficient building.

So not so much competition either on that front. So most of the competition is more buildings, let’s say, quality. That will be less, obviously, but not perfectly competing with what we have. At least that’s a bit our intention and our play on that one.

Jonathan Koner, Analyst, Goldman Sachs: So so so okay. So if I understand correctly, the new supply in Paris is mostly in small building. That’s what what you’re saying.

Benniet Ortega, CEO, Jocina Business: It’s mostly refurb of of small buildings. Is that is that what I understand? Yeah. Not 25, 30,000 kilometer building that we have with the signature. Yeah.

Thierry Cherrill, Analyst, Tixis CIB: Mhmm. Okay.

Benniet Ortega, CEO, Jocina Business: You’re gonna find some, but, you know, take up is pretty wide in in Paris and Paris CBD. But, yes, we don’t see so many buildings in capacity with competing with the signature.

Thierry Cherrill, Analyst, Tixis CIB: Okay. Thank you.

Benniet Ortega, CEO, Jocina Business: Signature being the new name of Solsys, yeah, after refund.

Conference Moderator: The next question comes from Mary Pollock from Credit Sites. I

Mary Pollock, Analyst, Credit Sites: have, I guess, a somewhat technical question on valuations. How will the move in French government bond yields impact valuations? How should we think about that filtering through for year end?

Benniet Ortega, CEO, Jocina Business: It’s both technical and psychological. I think the French bond is now ranging between 3.3% to 3.5%, which is pretty in line with our current bond level. So here clearly through JCNI, you can see a decoration between prime real estate and the French sovereign bond. So that’s why I was talking about psychology. And the question is around risk premium on top of French term and bond or ten year swaps.

So that will be a technical discussion with the operators. How do we factor in the fact that we have a gap between certain bonds and ten year swaps? So that will be a question for the next quarters regarding the risk premium on which rate.

Mary Pollock, Analyst, Credit Sites: Okay. So that’s a decision that we’ve taken by the by the valuers?

Thierry Cherrill, Analyst, Tixis CIB: Obviously. Okay. Thank you very much.

Benniet Ortega, CEO, Jocina Business: You you you know valuers also valuers,

Thierry Cherrill, Analyst, Tixis CIB: of of course, are considering what they are seeing on the market. And what Ben had said on the fact that clearly, can contemplate couple of transactions. So they have data points at least inside Paris in the market where you have couple of investor, could be a local or or international investors, which are getting a good ink of where should they see cap rates at year end.

Mary Pollock, Analyst, Credit Sites: Great. Thank you.

Benniet Ortega, CEO, Jocina Business: You’re welcome.

Conference Moderator: The next question comes from Shital Jamilani from Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead.

Shital Jamilani, Analyst, Deutsche Bank: Good morning. Just one question from my end. Just wondering about the status of the new developments and when when can we hear to any news on that.

Benniet Ortega, CEO, Jocina Business: Thank you for your questions. So far, nothing to announce. Otherwise, we would have included that into the press release. But we are actively working on it. We have active discussions on those buildings, but so far, nothing signed yet.

Conference Moderator: The next question comes from Celine Tzu Nguyen from Barclays.

Celine Tzu Nguyen, Analyst, Barclays: I just want a clarification on the a 140,000,000 CapEx that you’re planning on t one. Are you going to treat this as maintenance or investment yielding CapEx? And a sub question to that, if that’s maintenance CapEx, of course, that’s gonna decrease your cash. And we understand UPS will be quite flattish next year. So I was wondering if that makes you wanna change your dividend policy going forward to base it more on an AFFO basis rather like some of your peers rather than FFO.

Thank you.

Benniet Ortega, CEO, Jocina Business: Thank you for your questions. So decision is not made there, but anyway it’s CapEx, so it’s capitalized. So the accounting treatment will be the same. I think on what we are intending to do on T1 is to have, let’s say, a tower ready for multi tenant. So it will be a transformation of the tower so that in fact we don’t have in the future ideally to face those huge vacancy from a day to another.

So clearly, we want to improve the tower through services but also creating different lobbies, having a fully prepared tower for multi tenant so that it can last longer and have a secure cash flow than what we have today. So clearly, the tower will be improved significantly. And regarding dividend policy, we have a complete business model where I think our dividend coverage is pretty good now, and we’ll be capable in fact to follow on that track. We have been conservative, not raising our dividend in the last years while cash flow was increasing almost by EUR 100,000,000. That was in the view also to be capable to sustain it.

So no specific change in our our policy.

Celine Tzu Nguyen, Analyst, Barclays: Sorry. Can I can I rephrase my first question? To make it simple, Q1, are you planning to make any returns on the $140,000,000 CapEx?

Benniet Ortega, CEO, Jocina Business: Yes. It depends the way you look at returns. The tower is empty by mid twenty seven. Can we release as is? Yes, probably.

And we look at two options. One, releasing as is probably with a lower ERV or trying and trying to be more prime, more in line with the market and really it’s faster and with a higher rents per square meter compared to if we don’t do anything. So if you look at those two options, obviously there is a return. Otherwise, we would never do it.

Mary Pollock, Analyst, Credit Sites: Okay. Thank you.

Benniet Ortega, CEO, Jocina Business: Yeah.

Conference Moderator: There are no more questions at this time. So I hand the conference back to the speakers for any closing comments.

Benniet Ortega, CEO, Jocina Business: Thank you all for listening today. Thank you for your questions. Very insightful, and see you soon. Bye bye.

This article was generated with the support of AI and reviewed by an editor. For more information see our T&C.