Earnings call transcript: U-Haul Q4 2025 sees wider losses despite revenue growth

U-Haul Holding Company reported a wider-than-expected loss for Q4 FY2025, with an EPS of -$0.41, missing the forecast of -$0.22. Despite revenue surpassing expectations at 1.23 billion dollars against a forecast of 1.14 billion dollars, the company’s shares saw a slight decline of 0.02% in after-hours trading, reflecting investor concerns over the earnings miss. According to InvestingPro data, the company is quickly burning through cash with a negative free cash flow yield of -18%, although it remains profitable over the last twelve months. The company continues to face challenges, including increased liability costs and personnel expenses, although it reported growth in its U-Box segment and equipment rental revenue.

Key Takeaways

• U-Haul’s Q4 FY2025 loss widened to 82.3 million dollars, up from an 863,000 dollar loss the previous year.
• Revenue exceeded expectations, reaching 1.23 billion dollars.
• U-Box moving transactions grew by over 20%, indicating strong demand.
• Personnel and liability costs increased significantly, impacting profitability.
• Stock price decreased slightly by 0.02% in after-hours trading.

Company Performance

U-Haul’s overall performance in Q4 FY2025 showed mixed results. While revenue growth was strong, driven by a 4% increase in equipment rental revenue and a significant uptick in U-Box transactions, the company’s profitability suffered. With a market capitalization of $12.25 billion and trailing twelve-month revenue of $5.69 billion, U-Haul maintains significant market presence. The net loss for the quarter was 82.3 million dollars, a substantial increase from the previous year’s loss. This widening loss reflects increased costs in personnel and liability, as well as capital expenditures for new rental equipment. InvestingPro subscribers have access to detailed financial health scores and additional insights, with 12+ exclusive ProTips available for this stock.

Financial Highlights

• Revenue: 1.23 billion dollars, up from the forecasted 1.14 billion dollars.
• Earnings per share: -$0.41, missing the forecast of -$0.22.
• Equipment rental revenue: Increased by 4% in Q4.
• EBITDA for Moving and Storage: Increased by 5.6 million dollars to 217.3 million dollars.

Earnings vs. Forecast

U-Haul’s actual EPS of -$0.41 fell short of the forecasted -$0.22, representing a negative surprise of approximately 86%. Despite the revenue beat, the earnings miss highlights the impact of rising costs on the company’s bottom line. This performance contrasts with previous quarters where the company managed to align more closely with market expectations.

Market Reaction

Following the earnings announcement, U-Haul’s stock experienced a slight decline of 0.02% in after-hours trading. Trading at a P/E ratio of 21.64x, InvestingPro’s Fair Value analysis suggests the stock is currently overvalued. The company’s stock is currently trading near the lower end of its 52-week range, reflecting investor apprehension over the earnings miss and ongoing cost pressures. The broader market trends have shown resilience, but U-Haul’s specific challenges have weighed on its stock performance. Discover more comprehensive insights and Fair Value analyses for over 1,400 US stocks with InvestingPro’s detailed research reports.

Outlook & Guidance

Looking ahead, U-Haul projects net fleet capital expenditures for FY2026 at 2.95 billion dollars, indicating continued investment in its rental fleet. The company remains focused on expanding its U-Box market and expects improvements in fleet acquisition costs. However, the guidance suggests a cautious approach amid economic uncertainties and ongoing cost pressures.

Executive Commentary

Joe Schoen, Chairman, emphasized the persistent consumer need for moving services, stating, "Moving is a need for the consumer. That continues." Jason, a financial executive, expressed confidence in the company’s valuation, saying, "We think that there’s more, as people understand us more that we think the company’s worth more than where it’s trading at."

Risks and Challenges

• Rising liability and personnel costs are impacting profitability.
• Economic uncertainty and tariffs pose potential risks to consumer demand.
• High capital expenditures may strain financial resources.
• Competition in the moving and storage industry remains fierce.

Q&A

During the earnings call, analysts questioned U-Haul about its fleet age and maintenance challenges, potential share repurchase strategies, and the development yields of its storage facilities. The company addressed concerns about tariff impacts, indicating that these have not significantly affected moving decisions.

Full transcript - U-Haul Holding Co (UHAL) Q4 2025:

Konstantin, Conference Call Operator: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the U Haul Holding Company’s Fourth Quarter Fiscal Year End twenty twenty five Investor Conference Call. At this time, all lines are in listen only mode. Following the presentation, we will conduct a question and answer session. This call is being recorded on Thursday, 05/29/2025. I would now like to turn the conference over to Sebastien Reyes.

Please go ahead.

Sebastien Reyes, Investor Relations, U-Haul Holding Company: Good morning, and thank you for joining us today. Welcome to the U Haul Holding Company fourth quarter fiscal year end twenty twenty five investor call. Before we begin, I’d like to remind everyone that certain of the statements during this call, including without limitation, statements regarding revenue, expenses, income and general growth of our business may constitute forward looking statements within the meaning of the Safe Harbor provisions of Section 27A of the Securities Act of 1933 as amended and Section 21E of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934 as amended. Forward looking statements are inherently subject to risks and uncertainties, some of which cannot be predicted or quantified. Certain factors could cause actual results to differ materially from those projected.

For a discussion of the risks and uncertainties that may affect the company’s business and future operating results, please refer to the company’s public SEC filings and Form 10 ks for the year ended 03/31/2025, which is on file with the US Securities and Exchange Commission. I’ll now turn the call over to Joe Schoen, chairman of U Haul Holding Company.

Joe Schoen, Chairman, U-Haul Holding Company: Hello, everybody. What you see especially in our fourth quarter results are decisions made in prior years working their way through the financial statements. On a more positive note, the original equipment manufacturers appear to have decided to make reliable fuel efficient ice vehicles in volume at improved pricing. OEMs and U both need to get some emissions regulation relief from the administration to be able to better serve our customers with truck product. U Haul, in the meantime, has defleaded three quarters of our pickup fleet as we see no path to profitability with more than a small specialized pickup fleet.

Resale prices on both vans and pickups are steady or improving. I expect we may struggle through October on resell pricing, but beyond then, it appears to be a clear path. Our customers are expressing optimism, at least our truck share customers are. Storage remains a bright spot wherever we execute with precision. Our programs work.

It’s a less bright spot where we execute with less precision. Both self move and self store are consumer needs, and I expect those needs to continue. It is my challenge to make you hold the customer’s best choice. With that, I’ll turn it to Jason to kind of get specific on the numbers.

Jason, Financial Executive, U-Haul Holding Company: Thanks, Joe. So yesterday, we reported a fourth quarter loss of $82,300,000 compared to a loss of $863,000 for the same quarter last year. Our full year fiscal twenty twenty five earnings were $367,100,000 down from $628,700,000 in fiscal twenty twenty four. In terms of earnings per share, the fourth quarter of this year was a $0.41 per share loss per non voting share loss as compared to less than a penny a share loss in the fourth quarter of fiscal twenty twenty four. Earnings before interest taxes and depreciation EBITDA at our Moving and Storage segment increased by $5,600,000 for the quarter to $217,300,000 largely from revenue growth.

Our full year, fiscal two thousand twenty five EBITDA increased by just under $52,000,000 to a billion 619,700,000.0. Included in our earnings release and financial supplement is a reconciliation of EBITDA to to GAAP earnings. I’m gonna highlight three large differences between the two. First, fleet depreciation from the increased level of fleet acquisitions and the cost per truck over the last several years. Second, the reduced gains on the sales of retired pickups and cargo vans.

And third, the decline in interest income at the moving and storage segment as we reduced our short term cash balances due to reinvestment. Of the 41¢ decline in earnings per share for the fourth quarter, six about 16¢ was from fleet depreciation, dollars $0.01 2 from the decrease in gains on sale rental equipment and $00 from the decline in interest income. For the fourth quarter, our equipment rental revenue results had a $29,000,000 increase or just over 4%. Of note, during the prior year, we benefited from the extra day attributable to the leap year. I mentioned that because, it it added somewhere around $11,000,000 to last year’s result.

For the fiscal year, we finished up just over $100,000,000 for equipment rental revenue. That’s about a 2.8% increase. During the fourth quarter, both our one way and in town transactions increased compared to last year at that time as did our revenue per transaction. Our trailer and towing fleets also experienced improved revenue results. For the month of April and now into May, we’ve seen revenue continue to trend positively compared to the same period last year.

Capital expenditures for new rental equipment for fiscal two thousand and twenty five were a billion 863,000,000. That’s a $244,000,000 increase compared to fiscal two thousand twenty four. While proceeds from the sales of retired rental equipment declined by $76,000,000 to a total of 652,000,000. This is a combination of fewer pickups and cargo vans sold along with slightly lower average sales proceeds on the units that we did sell. Our initial projection for net fleet CapEx in fiscal year two thousand twenty six is a billion $2.95.

That’s compared to approximately a billion $2.11 in fiscal two thousand twenty five. Switching to self storage, revenues were up $18,000,000 or 8% for the quarter. Our twelve month results were also up 8% or just under $67,000,000. Average revenue per occupied foot continued to improve across the entire portfolio, up approximately 1.6%. And if you look at just the same store piece of that, we were up 3%.

Our average move in rates for the same store portfolio were up just over four and a half percent compared to the fourth quarter of last year. Our occupied unit count at the March was up just over 39,000 units compared to the same time last year. This time last year when we were talking, that that same statistic was a 31,000 unit improvement. So we picked up the pace a bit compared to where we were at last year. During fiscal year twenty twenty five, we added 82 new storage locations, 6,500,000 new net rentable square feet across 71,000 new rooms.

Our average occupancy ratio across all of our own locations during the fourth quarter declined about 2.5% to just over 77. If you look at just the same store portfolio, average occupancy experienced about a 50 basis point decrease to 91.9%. During fiscal two thousand and twenty five, we invested a billion $507,000,000 in real estate acquisitions along with self storage and U Box warehouse development. That’s a $249,000,000 increase over, the previous year. During just the fourth quarter, we added 1,600,000 new net rentable square feet, about a million and a half of that was newly developed locations along with expansion at existing facilities.

We currently have just under 7,000,000 new net runnable square feet being actively developed and another 8,000,000 square feet in the pipeline behind that. Our U Box revenue results are included in other revenue in our 10 k filing. This line item within the moving and storage segment was up just under $14,000,000 of which U Box was primary contributor. We are seeing both U Box moving transactions and the related storage transactions grow. Over the last twelve months, we’ve increased our covered storage capacity or warehouse space for these containers by nearly 25%, and we’re gonna continue to see growth in that area.

Operating expenses at moving and storage were up 53,600,000.0. Starting off on a positive note, we had another quarter of declining fleet repair and maintenance cost, this time down 6,700,000. Some of the larger expense increases that we had, personnel costs were up 12,800,000.0, although that was largely in line with our revenue increase. Other costs including utilities, property taxes, and shipping costs associated with our our u box moves were up a little over $11,000,000. The largest outlier for the quarter was, our liability costs associated with the fleet were up $27,800,000.

As of March, March, our moving and storage segment had cash and availability totaling a billion $348,000,000. On our investor relations website investors.uhaul.com, we posted some supplemental materials in addition to earnings release and 10 ks filing that are right on the front page for you to click on. With that, I would like to hand the call back to our operator, Konstantin, to begin the question and answer portion of the call.

Konstantin, Conference Call Operator: Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question and answer session.

Speaker 4: Your first question comes from

Konstantin, Conference Call Operator: the line of Steven Ralston from Zacks. Please go ahead.

Steven Ralston, Analyst, Zacks: Good morning.

Steven Farrell, Analyst, Oppenheimer: Good morning.

Steven Ralston, Analyst, Zacks: Looking through the numbers, I noticed and obviously you’re in a seasonal business that the fourth quarter was basically the strongest in the last six years, x ing out, 02/2021, which is was an exceptionally strong year. And I’m interpreting this as the business itself, the top line business is getting stronger. First of all, I’d I’d like to see if that you can interpret that as I do. And secondly, I know Joe, he talked I asked him last year at the beginning of the fiscal year what he what his outlook was for given his decades of experience was for the coming year. And, basically, he said modest growth.

And I don’t know if he gave the exact numbers, but I interpreted, like, two to 3% top line growth. With all his decades of experience, what’s his current outlook for the the top line, you know, x ing out the depreciation and the other things that are going on?

Joe Schoen, Chairman, U-Haul Holding Company: Yeah. This is Joe, Steve. I I think it’s picking up. We’re seeing signs that customers are, you know, positive. Of course, you know, there’s all these forces that you can read the paper and go crazy.

But but at the the base store level, I think we’re seeing a little bit of consumer optimism and willingness to start up some sort of a moving adventure. Every time someone moves, it’s a an adventure to put it politely. So, you know, if they’re kind of optimistic, they’re doing a little more business. And I see them doing a little more business with this. They’re accepting a little bit of rate increase.

And and when we execute with what I call with precision, they’re good with all this. It’s not that people don’t don’t have the ability to spend money or something like that. They they they just want to see good value for the money or maybe even great value for the money, which we should be in the position of providing. We’re we’re kinda at the great value end of the spectrum. And so I’m pushing that real hard with my troops, and I think we’re seeing a positive response from the customer.

Steven Ralston, Analyst, Zacks: Thank you. Now moving over to depreciation, and you spent a lot of time on that in the in this call and also in the press release. I consider depreciation just an part of the nature of the business that you’re in. I mean, you’re you’re in a constant investment stage of capital for, replacing your vehicles and, increasing capacity, and, depreciation is just a byproduct of that. And you you use it well to use that to, you know, offset as an expense, a noncash expense.

And at some point, they’ll be you’ll be able to benefit from that when there’s an increased demand. And and that’s just the nature of your business in the self storage industry and also self moving, obviously. It’s but you’re rather downbeat on it. I mean, this is just part of your business. And could you just comment on that?

I mean, maybe Sure. Some investors don’t understand that.

Joe Schoen, Chairman, U-Haul Holding Company: I’m with you. The the the depreciation on self storage is money in the bank. That that that that if you want to, you know, scratch me deep, that’s be my response there. It’s money in the bank. Relax.

Equipment is different. Equipment really is a depreciating asset. And through this time, we we had a number of things that happened. The cost of acquiring equipment exceeded our upper limit of projections. Okay?

It was something that was we’ve not seen in thirty years. And then that was coupled with a shortage of equipment, which is what runs repair expense up and also causes us in the present year to be acquiring more trucks than we would on a on a normal adjusted basis. But I I think you’re absolutely equipment depreciation, if we can have a reasonable handle on how we bring the equipment in and how we take it out, should match up to revenues in a positive way over, you know, a three or five year cycle for sure. And I expect it kind of is, but there’s this anomaly. The automakers and they’re starting to fess up to this now if you read press.

They’ve been grossly subsidizing electric vehicle misadventures by jacking the people who buy internal combustion engines, whether it’s consumers or fleets. And that’s that’s created a net loss for everybody. The automakers lost money because they couldn’t sell the damn electric vehicles and make any money. And then we’ve paid arguably too much for fleet, but that now is starting to come back towards normalization. We’re not quite there on a you know, if you look at it over a ten year trend, but we’re we’re improving.

And the feedback I get from the automakers is they’re pretty much done with the charade of net zero, and it’s a it’s gonna allow them to right their boat. Most of these people are actually manufacturing behemoths. They’re excellent at it if you let them go. But they have, you know, whatever you wanna say, drunk the Kool Aid and not done which is their forte. And I think they’re focused on getting back to their forte, and that will benefit us.

Although there’ll be some little lumps and bumps getting there, but I think it’s gonna benefit us. I saw article this morning where Mary Barra commented positively on on tariffs. And, of course, the article speculated whether she was trying to curry favor with the Trump administration or she actually believes this. Well, she may be correct. Okay.

I I it’s a very it’s a these are complicated equations how this cost works through the economy. But costs that are just wasted, in other words, money spent to develop a vehicle that you can sell for 50 but cost you a hundred. That’s just pure waste in the economy. And we’ve we’ve been the victim of that, and I think that’s coming to a halt. And as that comes to a halt, this the the statement that depreciation is is a normal thing will will be absolutely true.

It should be a normal thing. And I’m I don’t if she’s agreeing, but disappointed that we didn’t properly see the extent to which this could go. In other words, our our projection the range of our projections did not encompass what actually happened on either decline in retail that resale value or the amount that the automakers would attempt to make stick on acquisition prices. But those are now coming back where they’re more comprehensible. And normally, they work well for the whole economy.

So I expect this is gonna spread itself out, give it a little bit of time, and and I’m with you a %. Again, on storage, depreciation is just a piggy bank. It’s not a cost. On on trucks, it’s real, but it should match to revenue.

Steven Ralston, Analyst, Zacks: Thank you very much for taking my questions.

Joe Schoen, Chairman, U-Haul Holding Company: Sure.

Konstantin, Conference Call Operator: Your next question is from the line of Steven Ramsey from Thompson Research Group. Please ask your question.

Steven Ramsey, Analyst, Thompson Research Group: Hi, good morning. Maybe to start with the U Box growth, it jumped up meaningfully in the quarter and growing three times faster than moving. What do you attribute that step up to? I saw the comment that moving and storage containers both increasing were they increasing at similar, levels on a year over year basis?

Jason, Financial Executive, U-Haul Holding Company: Well, this is Jason. I’ll start with that. The the moving transactions the the u box moving transactions are growing at a faster rate than the u box containers that we’re keeping in storage. Now both are in in the in the 20 plus 20% range. It’s just that the the moving transactions are at the higher end of that, the storage transactions are at the lower end of that.

So with with as many containers that we have acquired and and warehouse space that we’ve built out, our big opportunity is to is to keep more of those containers in storage.

Steven Ramsey, Analyst, Thompson Research Group: Okay. And and then the 17% growth, I mean, not not obviously, you can’t pinpoint it too specifically, but is that the right sort of range to think about, going forward, or or is it still something strong but maybe more moderate than that?

Joe Schoen, Chairman, U-Haul Holding Company: This is Joe. I I I think my expectation is to stay in that range. The market’s vast. We’ve done this largely without cannibalizing our existing customer base. So we’ve been able to get growth in both of those segments.

I see that the new box has a higher growth rate than the truck share operation for many years to come. I just think that’s the nature of it. Of course, it’s smaller, but it it’s it’s all the market’s less explored also. And and it’s not a simple cannibalization of our other customer. So, yeah, I I think you can project to be at higher, and I I certainly am banking on that.

Steven Ramsey, Analyst, Thompson Research Group: That’s great to hear. Wanted to shift to real estate investments next next year. Your your storage pipeline is down a million or so from the prior quarter, and the U Box warehouse space grew meaningfully last year. Do you expect real estate CapEx to to be at similar levels in FY ’26 or do you expect it to moderate a bit? Just maybe your logic behind, where you see it going.

Joe Schoen, Chairman, U-Haul Holding Company: Well, I’ll touch it, and I’ll let Jason. He’s he’s the voice of reason here, which I think is the position you’d like him to play. I’m the voice of, you know, let’s get there before somebody else does. So with with Ubox, we’ve we’ve done a lot of just playing to get positioned in markets where we weren’t positioned. And with the exception of a few major markets, and I’ll pick Los Angeles as an example, we’re we’re woefully under Ubox in Los Angeles, but that may end up being the situation for the next twenty years.

So but we have added U Box capacity throughout North America, and we’re I don’t think we’re in the emergency construction basis, which I would if you would have asked me a year or two years ago. I’d say it’s an emergency. We need more, more, more. Now we need to calmly exploit the asset that we’ve built because, of course, that that’s where that’s the whole point of this. So as Jason says, we get more people into storage and continue to grow the the moving franchise of the new box product, we’ll be leveraging those assets, and that should be positive leverage.

Steven Ramsey, Analyst, Thompson Research Group: Okay. That that’s that’s that’s that’s great. And then last one for me, again, to stay on on the real estate side of things. You brought a lot of storage capacity online recently that is self storage. The maturity period, is is it still moving at the historical clip on a going from day one to year one, two, and three?

And then secondly, you have a larger percentage of units in that early phase of ramp up right now, it seems. Can you talk about the impact that has on EBITDA and and the timeline of transitioning from, money losing to EBITDA positive as storage units mature?

Jason, Financial Executive, U-Haul Holding Company: Steven, this is Jason. So the our our, our rough estimates is usually, know, approaching 70% occupancy. You’re you’re you’re paying your bills. We’re not having any issues on the lease up of the portfolio through say the first three or four years. Would say that if there’s any slowdown that we’ve seen, it’s in the year going from year four to five where where where you’re going from the low eighties to to getting into the low nineties.

I would say that that’s maybe a couple points percentage points slower than what we’ve seen before, and I’m excluding the COVID years, but which were unusual. So and and and that would point to more of a of a management challenge versus a consumer challenge, you know, trying to get the facility filled up to the 90% plus. Otherwise, in the first three, four years, as we’re monitoring these new facilities that come on, I I’m not seeing any any real weakness in in how they’re leasing up.

Steven Ramsey, Analyst, Thompson Research Group: Okay. That’s that’s great. Thank you for taking my question.

Konstantin, Conference Call Operator: Your next question is from the line of Andy Liu from Wolfe Research. Please ask your question.

Speaker 4: Hey, good morning everyone. And appreciate you taking the question. Really excited to be on the call for the first time. So, really, to kick it off, you guys talked about a lot of the positives early on the call, right, on the top line and in the deck, you mentioned higher volume higher transaction, higher revenue per transaction. It’s all great news.

So the big topic today is the tariffs. Right? And that kinda happened early April. So as you look at the business on a month to month basis on your customers’ traffic, have you guys noticed anything any meaningful shifts there? Perhaps, you know, folks that are were thinking about moving and are saying, like, hey.

Maybe I’ll just stay put, you know, given uncertainty or anything like that.

Joe Schoen, Chairman, U-Haul Holding Company: I’ll I’ll answer this. It’s you’re you’re you’re gonna get an opinion because there’s not If someone has a fact on that, I’d appreciate hearing it. But my opinion, my observation is that if we communicate strong value that the consumer is still positive. They’re a little picky and or I have stores that are poorly managed, my business is down. That that that’d be my answer to you.

I will never get every store, you know, managed with precision, but, you know, I can get the most of them there, that’s that’s my task. So, no, I’ve not seen this, and I’ve been very curious about this like you state. Or tariffs going to make consumers uncertain, and then they do nothing. If you ask my opinion, when people are uncertain, they don’t move. Okay.

But we’re seeing people move. So my answer would be I don’t think they’re as uncertain as we might think.

Speaker 4: Okay. Got it. Got it. No. No.

That’s totally fair. Totally fair. I know I know you know you know you all have been around for a very long time. You’re super experienced here. So, you know, I just wanted to kinda get your sense on you know, you’ve you’ve seen things through the cycle before.

So as you kinda look at, you know, this where where you are and sort of the cycle now, sort of what is your what’s kinda your outlook here and how things might play out on the on the housing and the moving side?

Joe Schoen, Chairman, U-Haul Holding Company: Yeah. I I think the again, moving is is a is a need for the consumer. That that that continues. The question is is it used to be for much of my career, it was can we get them to do business with anybody? Are they gonna move in the trunk of their car or the roof of their car or some damn thing?

You see? They’ve always been moving. And, of course, you watch them western moving. They’re moving in wagons for god’s sakes. So the the question is is is what’s the mode and can you they’re going to move.

The question is is can you get them into a commercial transaction that works good for both sides? Can they see it as a value and can we squeeze a profit out? And that’s that’s we work at that not so much as can we stimulate moving demand. Can we get people to move more often? No.

We we have no no plans, no intent, don’t care, you know, don’t don’t accumulate any data on the subject. But we could get more of them to enter into a commercial transaction and, of course, specifically with U Haul. And and so that’s that’s kind of our task. But if if people shut down and they have I’ve seen it where they’ve shut down, and it immediately reflects in distance of move in our statistics. They move a shorter distance on average.

That’s a gross statistic, but it’s a pretty good indicator when the distance they move declines that, overall, there’s a little bit of anxiousness in the consumer group.

Speaker 4: Okay. Got it. Got it. That’s super helpful. Super helpful.

So moving on to kinda the the story side, you know, I really appreciate you guys putting out that that slide here on sort of the revenue upside on the, development pipeline. I think I remember a couple quarters back, I kinda talked about, you know, these developments you could bring in sort of, know, 10% yield, 10% returns on these storage developments. On the real estate side, we kinda hear, you know, maybe tariffs are making input costs go up or, you know, immigration policy could potentially, you know, affect the labor side of the equation. So would you or, would that potentially impact some of the yields you guys, kinda initially expected for the future pipeline, that 10%?

Jason, Financial Executive, U-Haul Holding Company: Andy, this is Jason. I’ve spoken with with our real estate folks on the development side and, you know, two two areas of concern for us would be, you know, what goes in into the the concrete mix within the steel. And in talking with our largest steel suppliers, we don’t anticipate any significant increases in in the cost of steel at least to the tariffs right now. And likewise, we haven’t seen anything manifest itself yet in in the cost of concrete. So what what we’ve actually been seeing excluding the the threat of tariffs is the the cost of construction have been gradually coming down for us.

Joe Schoen, Chairman, U-Haul Holding Company: That’s a combination of us of us being a little bit smarter. And also, I think that people are just a little bit hungrier, and we can get people to sharpen their pencil. But that’s it’s it’s it doesn’t mean that actual costs have declined, but what we’re paying is improving.

Speaker 4: Okay. Got it. Yeah. That’s that’s fair. That’s that’s that’s helpful.

It’s helpful. It’s, you know, really great that you guys are able to control that cost there. So, really, can following on on the, storage side, you know, a lot of times, you kinda look at your companies that has, you know, an operating side and real estate side. Sometimes they could be disconnecting the valuation of the real estate. Right?

So looking at your storage business, you guys own a pretty sizable footprint, and then kinda look at, you know, the other storage names that we covered here, you know you know, or in the private market, sort of the value of a square of of a self storage facility. Right? Kinda like $2,300 a foot is kinda what what the what the market norm is. So kinda looking at where you guys are trading, do you guys think there’s a disconnect maybe in the, in how folks are looking at, the value in the store in on the storage portfolio?

Jason, Financial Executive, U-Haul Holding Company: This is Jason. I I guess to answer that is we’ve been trying to provide more details to help people value that. So that’s an indication of we think that there’s a disconnect. We we think that there’s more, as people understand us more that we think the company’s worth more than than than where it’s trading at. You know, we we’ve been working with Wolf, and and our other analysts in order to try to communicate that story.

So as far as dialing the stock, everyone who’s listening to this call is probably a bit better at that. What we’re doing what we’re trying to do is present more information that our investors are asking for in order to so that everyone can better value the stock for themselves.

Speaker 4: Yeah. For sure. For sure. And and and, you know, I really appreciate you taking my question today. You know, I’m happy to be, launching on the name and, you know, looking forward to working guys more.

Appreciate it. Thank you.

Joe Schoen, Chairman, U-Haul Holding Company: You’re welcome.

Konstantin, Conference Call Operator: Your next question is from the line of Jamie Willen from Willen Management. Please go ahead.

Jamie Willen, Analyst, Willen Management: Yes. As a follow-up to to the previous question, it would seem like when one looks at the self storage industry, whether public or private, and looks at the growth of your self storage as well as, floating in Ubox there, which most of the other self storage people do not have a similar component, that the value of self storage in Ubox exceeds the current stock price. So it seems like the truck rental business is being valued for less than zero. So, you know, one would hope other than just putting out information to additional Wall Street Analysts that the company can garner a plan for how to, reduce that valuation gap since our self storage is so undervalued relative to its peers in the market.

Joe Schoen, Chairman, U-Haul Holding Company: Yeah. I think that’s a a great comment, Jamie. And, of course, as you know, I’m invested in this. So optimizing that is a nice selfish self interest. And I welcome input on the subject and then trying to get there.

Jamie Willen, Analyst, Willen Management: But would you all consider, you know, repurchasing shares, at this tremendous discount to intrinsic value to close that certain valuation gap?

Joe Schoen, Chairman, U-Haul Holding Company: You know, I I’m torn on that. You know, we did some repurchases, I don’t know, ten or twelve, fifteen years ago. The members of my family liked it because it felt like they were getting more

Speaker 4: more

Joe Schoen, Chairman, U-Haul Holding Company: wealthy or something, but it didn’t give any more money to spend. So I don’t know if it really did a lot, but but and at the same time, Jason’s keeping a pretty he’s playing his position and trying to make sure we keep ourselves very liquid and very flexible because of there is significant uncertainty in financial markets, I’ll say relative to five years ago maybe. And so he’s trying to keep me to keeping the fair amount of liquidity. So it’s not been proposed. There’s no proposal in front of the board or any particular board member that I recall who’s agitating for a share back.

And I’m not agitating for one, but it’s you know, if someone made the case, it certainly would talk about it, but I I just no. I I don’t I don’t know. It may be smart. You know, when we did it before, I was not very much in favor of it, but I try not to just run this as autocracy. So I

Jamie Willen, Analyst, Willen Management: I would submit that the valuation gap today is much, much greater than the valuation gap when you were purchasing repurchasing shares a dozen years ago. So it’s a different equation today.

Joe Schoen, Chairman, U-Haul Holding Company: Well, I appreciate you making that point.

Jamie Willen, Analyst, Willen Management: Financially, the property and casualty business, operating profits declined in the quarter from 25 to 10,000,000. Is there any particular reason that

Steven Farrell, Analyst, Oppenheimer: would happen?

Jason, Financial Executive, U-Haul Holding Company: Jamie, this is Jason. And and this is due to one of my least favorite accounting rules on the face of the earth, and that is valuing, common stock that we hold in our investment portfolios to market and running that change through earnings. So we have a portfolio of common stock at the property and casualty companies. Last year, during the fourth quarter, it went up in value compared to the beginning of the quarter and we had a large gain. This year, it happened to go down in value and then combined, I think that was something like a $10,000,000 swing just from holding the common stock, not from anything actually happening.

Jamie Willen, Analyst, Willen Management: Understood. As a shareholder, it would it it it intrigues me with the thought of potentially selling off our insurance businesses and using that liquidity to repurchase shares and close the valuation gap and be able to put for forth more capital into the businesses that are growing and are our core businesses. Any thoughts in that direction?

Joe Schoen, Chairman, U-Haul Holding Company: Yeah. I think that’s a a a valid consideration, and it’s

it’s discussed and but I don’t wanna tell you that something’s gonna happen because I but but the idea is clear. So I guess I’d leave it at that.

Jamie Willen, Analyst, Willen Management: Okay. All right. Thanks, fellas. Appreciate it.

Konstantin, Conference Call Operator: Your last question is from the line of Steven Farrell from Oppenheimer. Please go ahead.

Steven Farrell, Analyst, Oppenheimer: Good morning. I have a few questions about the fleet. What is the current age, and how does that compare to pre pandemic level?

Joe Schoen, Chairman, U-Haul Holding Company: I don’t have a calculation. We don’t run that statistic. But if you looked at unused mileage, in other words, let’s take a 30,000 trucks and how many miles do we have left in that fleet on a per truck basis than we did pre COVID? Pre COVID was our highest. We would have had the highest number of unused and therefore available miles in the fleet.

We have steadily been increasing that, and this year, we’ll increase it again. And we I was just thrilled prior to COVID because I thought, you know, we got the company into a strong position there. And and then COVID came and we had, at first, our own fear and then to acquire more capital trucks. And then the automakers inability or unwillingness to manufacture the trucks. So between the two of those factors, we declined rapidly, and you saw that in escalating repair expense.

Our repair expense went up a couple hundred million dollars in a short period of time. It was because the trucks, as on average, were not necessarily older, but had more miles, or unused less unused miles available. And all all these trucks have different amounts of miles that they’re good for. There’s it’s a they’re not a a one index number, but so I think we’re probably by the end of this bill, which will go through, the one we’re in now basic is gonna go through next March. I think we’re probably above ninety percent of what we had pre COVID, but I don’t have an absolute calculation.

We look at that twice a year and try to you know, it’s a whole bunch of suppositions and try to comprehend what it is. And, so I I don’t have a number in the front of my mind, but we’re gaining ground, is to me the the point, gain the ground. And you gain a little ground, you’ll get there. And and there is no you can get too much and have the fleet too new, and it just costs too much. So you wanna kinda wanna have the fleet.

If I had my brothers, I’d have an equal percentage of every model in every year of production, but it never comes in that way. And so sometimes I have to buy 30% of a particular model’s fleet in one year because that’s just what’s available and what can be done. But it kinda puts a lump in the snake as we digest that. You can just see it kinda just like seeing a rat go through a snake. It’s just kind of a little lump that kinda works itself out.

Well, we’re we’re we’re not as good as pre COVID, but pre COVID was the best. We’re way ahead of different times I’ve run this company. I mean, I’m I’m proud of the fleet. I don’t expect that if you randomly go into a place, you’re gonna get some a rough truck. I’d expect you’re gonna get a good truck.

There’s been times in my career where I’d say, you’ve got a fifty fifty chance you may get a rough truck. Well, that’s you’re not gonna you’re not gonna experience that today. So that helps build our business because consumers somehow communicate about that. They know I can even tell by model when they think our truck leaves a little bit, not up to their expectations. So it it’s I I think we’re not seeing we’re not we’re not that’s not being a problem for us right now, if that makes sense.

It’s not a problem. But we’re we’re praying we’re paying up for it. That’s what you’re seeing in this depreciation. We’re paying up.

Steven Farrell, Analyst, Oppenheimer: Right. And that’s I just wanted to follow-up with that. You can correct me if I’m wrong, but when, there were no supply constraints with the fleet rotation, I always kind of thought of, you know, maintenance expenses, increasing as the depreciation is decreasing in the two, more or less balance out over the life of the vehicle? And is it now we have a significant increase in depreciation that’s outpacing the decrease in maintenance expense? And is that just a new normal because there was, you know, the big lump of spend, know, this year and last year and, you know, not much before that?

Or do you think that it be a normal balance out?

Joe Schoen, Chairman, U-Haul Holding Company: I’m sorry. I I do not want I would not characterize it as the new normal. Again, I expect that automakers will continue to improve quality and maybe even pricing going ahead. They have room there if they can get themselves focused on it and get their cost allocated so they’re not constantly trying to subsidize another vehicle. So they’re very good at this.

They’re very knowledgeable people. And in my conversations with them as of late, that is their focus. I couldn’t have said that two years ago. So if they get focused on this, I think they’ll do a good job, and that will trickle through to us. And then we have to do, of course, a good job of what trucks we buy.

We buy the right ones for the right amount. So and then there’s always the the the issue that Jimmy Wyla brought up, or are you really making a profit or not? Because there’s so many things in on a what we call a box truck, you know, it’s a truck that, you know, has a square U Haul box on the back of it. You’re not out of the woods for seven or eight years. That’s just the truth.

And that’s always been the truth, and it’s not a a scary thought to us. We deal with that all the time. But so you make a projection, and the an eight year projection is kind of a long projection. And we try to be real sober about that because because we intend to be here seven or eight years from now in in our positions and don’t want it to be reflecting poorly on us or so, you know, we’re trying to do that to the very best of our ability. And we it will become easier as the automakers focus back on their core competency because they’re more predictable.

Things are predictable. When they’ve all this green business has just disrupted. Go to a car dealer and talk to the dealer. He’ll his tail of wool will be frightened. He has a bunch of unsold inventory and a bunch of orders for truck for vehicles he can’t source.

Well, that’s just that just means the supply chain’s been disrupted, and we need to to rationalize the supply chain, which I think is is speedily being addressed. And they will get it right because that is what they do well at.

Steven Farrell, Analyst, Oppenheimer: Well, that’s good. Thank you very much.

Konstantin, Conference Call Operator: There are no further questions at this time. I’d like to turn the call back to the management team

Steven Farrell, Analyst, Oppenheimer: for closing comments. Sir, please go ahead.

Sebastien Reyes, Investor Relations, U-Haul Holding Company: Well, thank you, everyone, for your support. We look forward to speaking with you in August after we report our first quarter results. Thank you.

Konstantin, Conference Call Operator: This concludes today’s conference call. Thank you very much for your participation. You may now disconnect.

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