Earnings call transcript: Camil Alimentos Q1 2025 sees 7% revenue drop

Camil Alimentos (CAML3) reported its Q1 2025 earnings, revealing a net revenue of 2.7 billion BRL, a 7% decline year-on-year. Despite this, the company saw a 20% sequential increase in EBITDA, reaching 233 million BRL. The stock price experienced a decline of 2.03% following the earnings announcement, closing at 4.92 BRL. According to InvestingPro analysis, the company currently trades at attractive valuations with a P/E ratio of 8.34x, suggesting potential undervaluation compared to peers. For detailed valuation metrics and more insights, visit our Most Undervalued Stocks list.

Key Takeaways

• Net revenue decreased by 7% year-on-year.
• EBITDA increased by 20% sequentially.
• The company launched new product lines, including pasta and coffee capsules.
• Stock price fell by 2.03% post-earnings.

Company Performance

Camil Alimentos faced a challenging Q1 2025, with a 7% decrease in net revenue compared to the previous year. The company, however, managed to improve its EBITDA by 20% sequentially, thanks to cost management and strategic initiatives. With a market capitalization of $308.84M and a prominent position in the Food Products industry, the company continues to maintain a strong presence in Brazil and international markets, with a diversified product portfolio. InvestingPro subscribers can access 8 additional key insights and a comprehensive Pro Research Report that provides deep-dive analysis of the company’s competitive position and growth prospects.

Financial Highlights

• Net Revenue: 2.7 billion BRL (7% decrease YoY)
• EBITDA: 233 million BRL (8.7% margin, 20% sequential increase)
• Gross Profit: 606 million BRL (22.6% margin)
• Net Debt: 3.6 billion BRL (Net Debt to EBITDA:4x)

Outlook & Guidance

Camil Alimentos aims to reduce its net debt to EBITDA ratio to 2x. The company anticipates improved profitability in the sugar segment and is focusing on volume growth in high-potential categories. International expansion continues, with recent market entry in Paraguay. The company’s gross profit margin stands at 19.67%, while maintaining a conservative debt-to-equity ratio of 1.58x, suggesting room for strategic expansion while managing financial risk.

Executive Commentary

"We are confident that with our brands, internal adjustments, and strategic initiatives, we will continue to drive our growth," said Luciano Quartierro, President. Flavio Vargas, CFO, added, "The ideal level that we will pursue is around 2x net debt to EBITDA."

Risks and Challenges

• Price volatility in the rice and sugar markets could impact revenue.
• High net debt levels pose financial risk.
• International market pressures may affect profitability.

Q&A

Analysts questioned the potential recovery of rice prices and the impact of coffee price sensitivity on volumes. The company addressed its leverage reduction strategy and detailed its international market performance.

Full transcript - Camil Alimentos SA (CAML3) Q1 2026:

Conference Moderator: This is video conference [SPEAKER to discuss the results of the first quarter of twenty twenty five. Present here today are Mr. Luciano Quartierro, Director, President Flavio Vargas, CFO and IR Officer and the company’s Investor Relations team. We would like to inform you that this event is being recorded and all participants will be in a listen only mode during the company’s presentation. At the end, we will open for questions from analysts and investors only.

We would like to emphasize that any forward looking statement that might be made during this video conference related to Camille’s business outlook, projections and financial and operating goals, our beliefs and assumptions from the company’s management as well as information currently available. These may involve risks, uncertainties and assumptions as they refer to future events and therefore, depend on circumstances that may or may not occur. Investors must understand that such general economic industry conditions and other operating factors may affect CAMIL’s performance and lead to results that differ substantially from those expressed in such forward looking statements. We will now start the presentation with Mr. Quartiero, followed by Flavio’s presentation.

At the end, we will open for a Q and A session. Thank you. Hello, and welcome to the comments on the results of the first quarter ended in May 2025. On Slide two, we highlight the operating categories and the main key indicators for the quarter and year. We posted net revenue of BRL 2,700,000,000.0 and EBITDA of BRL $233,000,000 with a margin of 8.7%.

This margin is up 2.2 percentage points when compared to the fourth quarter of ’twenty four. As for volumes, our total was 508,000 tons with notable growth in international operations. We will go into more details in the next few slides. In the high turnover segment, which includes grains and sugar in Brazil, we saw a 14% drop in volume when compared to the first quarter of ’twenty four. This decline was mainly driven by the sugar category, which continues to face strong competitive pressure in the domestic retail market, both in terms of profitability and volume.

In grains, the lower volume reflects a very strong comparative base in the same period of the previous year and a lower price scenario. At times like prices continue to fall, retailers tend to adopt a more cautious stance on restocking, waiting for stabilization. In the high growth categories of fish, pasta, coffee and cookies, we saw a 4% decline in volumes during the quarter. Coffee. In sequential comparison, decline also reflects the seasonality of fish.

To boost results in these categories, we continue to invest in new product launches and strengthening our brands. In pasta, we launched the Camille brand in the Sao Paulo metropolitan area, a move totally in line with our strategy to strengthen one of the most profitable categories for us in recent years as well as expanding our presence in a key market in terms of brand recognition and cross selling potential. In coffee, after launching new packaging and a new gourmet line in the last few years, we are now introducing Uniom brand capsules, compatible with an espresso system and also available in five versions. Therefore, strengthening the portfolio in the presence of the Union brand in food retail. As for cookies, our campaigns remain focused on revitalizing the Mabel brand and on actions profitability.

These three categories, pasta, coffee and cookies, are still operating at around half of their installed capacity. We, therefore, have significant room to expand volumes, dilute costs and improve margins. In the International segment, we saw volume growth driven by exports from Uruguay. Even with the drop in prices, we managed to maintain the segment’s profitability, which has shown good results, and we are moving forward with its expansion. We have already announced to the market the deal to enter the Paraguayan rice market.

We are finalizing discussions to complete the acquisition. We will certainly keep the market informed about the next steps. With a very sound track record and a portfolio of strong and recognized brands, we continue to strengthen our presence in the markets where we operate and expand our operating efficiency. Our more than sixty years of history reflect Camille’s commitment to offering quality food and creating value in a consistent and sustainable manner. We are confident that with our brands, internal adjustments and strategic initiatives, we will continue to drive our growth and consolidate our leadership in the sector.

I will now hand over to Flavio, who will comment on the financial highlights of the period. Flavio, you may proceed. Thank you, Luciano. Hello, everyone. Starting with financial performance.

In Q1 twenty twenty five, we had net revenue of BRL 2,700,000,000.0, down 7% year on year. Cost of goods sold fell 8.5%, mainly reflecting lower prices in Brazil, particularly rice, which had been trading at higher levels in the previous year. As a result, gross profit was BRL606 million with a margin of 22.6%. SG and A expenses accounted for 16.5% of net revenue, keeping us at competitive levels compared to the industry. We reduced sales expenses due to lower volumes, particularly offset by an increase in general and admin expenses, especially personnel expenses.

Our EBITDA was EUR233 million with a margin of 8.7%, a margin that remained virtually stable compared to the same period last year. On Slide seven, when we compare the results sequentially, we see a more pronounced reduction in net revenue and COGS mainly due to lower prices in the period. However, it is worth noting the 14% increase in gross profit and 20% increase in EBITDA, rising from 6.5% to 8.7% in the sequential results of our EBITDA margin. This result is due to the seasonality of the period and the improved performance of international operations in Q1 twenty twenty five. Now moving on to debt.

The company’s net debt stood at BRL 3,600,000,000.0, with net debt to EBITDA for the last twelve months of 4x in the quarter. It is worth noting that we have significant working capital seasonality throughout the quarters, more specifically in rice and fish. The first quarter traditionally shows higher cash consumption, while the fourth quarter shows a release in working capital, with our debt covenants in relation to this indicator only being read in the fourth quarter. CapEx totaled BRL120 million in the quarter, with highlights including investments in Brazil, in the new grain plant in Campari in the state of Rio Grande do Sul and the continuation of construction of new biomass fired power plant using rice husks, our main waste product, which will enable us to use 100% of the husks from our processing in the region. Speaking of the new thermal plant and as part of our ESG agenda, we published our 2024 sustainability report, detailing the company’s various initiatives and progress indicators.

These initiatives reaffirm our commitment to the sustainable development of our business and the planet, while promoting the creation of shared value and enhancing our growth as a company. With this in mind, the company was once again included in B3’s Corporate Sustainability Index portfolio effective as of May 2025. If you’re interested in learning more about our actions and indicators, please access our annual sustainability report and contact our IR and ESD teams in case you have any questions or suggestions. To conclude, as Luciano has already pointed out, we are working hard to strengthen our brands and commercial execution. We are confident that we are on the right track to take the company to a new level of scale and profitability.

We are now available for Q and A if you have any questions. We will now initiate the Q and A session to investors and analysts. In case you have questions, please press the raise hand Our first question is from Gustavo Troiano from Itau BBA. Your microphone is on. You may proceed, sir.

Good morning, Flavio and Luciano. Thank you for taking my question. We have two questions here. My first question is on rice. And in your release and also in your comments, you said that the retailers are postponing their restocking, especially due to commodity prices.

But the feeling we have is that, I mean, this has been going on for two or three quarters since they started postponing their restocking. I would just like to hear from you whether we should expect this restocking happening now if you’re already seeing movements in that direction or if you feel that retailers will start operating at a lower inventory level, given the fact that the cost of capital is impacting them. So what do you see in terms of lower inventory levels or the resumption of restocking? And my second question is about pasta. And in the release, you mentioned that there was a slight reduction year on year.

But at the same time, you are making progress in Sao Paulo. So maybe we understand that this is just a volume loss in Minas Gerais. Could you please run a comparison between Sao Paulo and Munas? So we just want to learn more about what is happening in Minas Gerais that is leading to this lower volume and whether you are willing to let go of some profitability level just to regain share. I would just like to get a better understanding of your strategy in the state of Minas Gerais.

Thank Thank Gustavo, for your questions. Starting with rice. When we release our February results, the price of Ezalco was around $66.67. But in October of last year, it was BRL 120.

And at the turn of the year, it was BRL 100. And at the end of our fiscal year, in February, it was around BRL $66.67, and now it’s BRL 66, meaning that rice prices continue to drop and now has become clear because what we’ve seen in the market is that, in fact, it has reached the floor. And we see consumers buying less. And at this price, people are not really interested in selling. There might be a slight increase in prices in the coming weeks, a slight increase.

And this will only reinstate the thesis that it has reached the floor. And because of that, I think our customers will resume purchases. At the May, we started seeing a slight change in clients’ behavior. They are starting to buy again, but it’s not like it happened what happened in previous years. Probably, this will be a there will be a gradual resumption.

Usually, this is a month where all clients start to restock. But what we see is a gradual resumption. It started at the May, and it is keeping up. But we haven’t seen the same behavior and performance as in previous years. But now going back to your point, whether customers will decide to work with lower inventory levels, I think this is something that started last year at this current interest rate levels.

And this concern with working capital as a whole is present not only among our customers, but also in the company as well. This challenge or this attempt to find a way to operate with less working capital is present throughout the industry. But I don’t clearly see customers, as in the past, risking to work at very low inventory levels, something that could cause an impact to the operation. But now speaking about pasta, Camille continues to gain market share in the market. Sales of Camille pasta brand already account for 15% of our sales.

Quarter on quarter, we grew 27%. And this is a good sign of the good performance that we have in the state of Sao Paulo. But we still have a lot of room to grow. As for loss of volumes, this was more intense in Rio. This is a market where our profit margin is lower.

And the impact, as you mentioned, for Minas is very minimal. Minas remains very strong with Santa Maria. We have a very good profitability in this market. The profitability of the pasta segment remains good even though we had a lower volume in the period. We are very optimistic not only with the category, but also with the growth of the Camille brand in so far.

Perfect, Luciano. Thank you very much. Our next question is from Leonardo Alenkarf with XP. I would just like some more color related to the recent movements in rice. I mean, there is the issue of cost in production, but this will be reflected in the next season, I believe.

But with all the tariffs, could you comment on that? And what do you think will come out of it? And if you see a growing pressure rise for a longer period of time and whether you believe that retailers will still wait to see what will happen, especially what you see coming in the second quarter, if you see something about this trend. In addition to rice, if you will comment on the sugar category as well. I mean, sugar prices are dropping in the international market.

And what about the competition? And how do you think the sugar category will perform throughout the year? Thank you, Leonardo, for your questions. I think that rice prices, the company’s expectation, and I’m sorry for being repetitive, I think it has reached the floor, and I believe that prices will recover. Price dynamics this year with this huge production in Brazil, not only in Brazil, but in other countries of Mircoso and Paraguay.

In fact, the I mean, there is no room for price recovery. It is challenging in terms of growers, the profitability of this year’s season may cause an impact in the next season. There will be probably an area I mean, acreage recovery because prices now are very low. Historically, if you look back, it’s just like a big cycle. We go with two, three years with prices falling because of excess production.

And then you come with another period with high prices, there is an increased production and prices fall. It’s just like a five to seven year cycle. Certainly, it’s not very well defined, but this just illustrates that we have prices that go up and down. People plant more and then they plant less. There is drop in prices.

Profitability may not be so good. And then some growers leave their sugar acreage and they replace it with something else. But when you look at the scenario, this is the first year when we see lower prices. In fact, it was a huge season. There was more sugar in the market than expected, not only in Brazil, but also in Uruguay, Argentina and Paraguay.

But we are not certain of how much of that will be carried over to the next season, but it pretty much depends how much the countries as a whole will be able to export to other countries. So if as a block, we export a lot of sugar, then we will see a price recovery in the coming years. If that doesn’t happen, next year, prices will be under pressure. But I think it’s still too soon for us to draw up an expected scenario because the export volume remains uncertain. As for our customers, we started to see changes in the pace of purchases at the May.

And this pace is different than what we saw in March and April. But again, there wasn’t any major change. Because if we think about last year, there was a big change in May and June. And I remember that back then, I said that our portfolio of orders in a week of ten days went from 15 to forty five days. This is typical.

But this year, this hasn’t happened yet. That’s why our expectation is that this will not happen the same way in a short period of time because the recovery will be more gradual, and it will take a few weeks. But I don’t believe that the retail will lower their inventory levels to very, very low levels as it happened a few years ago when we saw stock out in some cases. I think the scenario is different. But again, we are still paying close attention to working capital, and this is across the board.

In terms of volumes in Q2, since we are not seeing this major change in a short period of time, I think this will be more diluted. But in face of what we have today, volumes are better when compared to the first quarter. As for sugar, our expectation is that competitiveness will improve. Sugar prices in the international market remains low. And because of that, our main competitors have less room to spend in the domestic market.

Therefore, we believe in the that in the next two quarters, we will see a gradual improvement of our profitability, and we will also see increased competitiveness that will impact sugar volumes. I mean, we now see the light at the end of the tunnel in this segment, I could say. As for tariffs that you asked about, I don’t see any significant impact in the rice category. We export into The U. S, and we call that products there are packaged with our brands that we supply to supermarkets that serve Brazilians abroad, but the volume is very small.

This sale may be impacted by these tariffs. But apart from that, we don’t see any major impact in the sector because the country and the country and the block, we do not import high volumes to The U. S. What may bring impacts to tariffs would be in the coffee category. It’s still uncertain, but The U.

S. Is one of the major destinations of Brazilian coffee. This may impact consumption. I may have to look for other destinations. Therefore, we may have to redistribute our export destination.

So this is the only impact we see regarding tariffs at the moment. Perfect. Thank you for the information, Luciano. Next question is from Laura Hirata with Santander. Your microphone is on.

You may proceed. Good morning. Good morning, Luciano, Flavio, Jennifer. Thank you for taking my question. I would like to focus on two topics.

The first being the high growth category. How do you evaluate price sensitivity of consumers, particularly in regards to coffee, pasta and cookies? And my second question is about leverage. I would just like to get a better understanding. Considering working capital seasonality of your business, what would be the ideal net debt to equity level that would be comfortable for the company?

So that’s what I have on my end. Thank you. Thank you for your questions, Laura. The high growth category, I mean, is a category where we are very optimistic. We see a lot of opportunities, both in terms of growth in the past segment.

I already mentioned the opportunities in Sao Paulo with the Camille brand. Cookies, there is idleness in the industry. We’re operating at a 55% capacity level. In this category, both pasta and cookies are more sensitive to scale. Industrial scale has a significant impact in the cost of these categories.

Therefore, we are still very much focused on growing these categories. Well, certainly, we have to strike a balance between profitability and growth. We are not seeking for growth at any cost. Therefore, the company is focused on increasing profitability without letting go of volumes because this would have an impact. Therefore, in terms of price sensitivity, there hasn’t been major changes in pasta and biscuits, but there was a change in the coffee category.

I think you all saw the spike in coffee prices over I mean, 80% increase. And in May and June, we are now seeing a fall in coffee prices. This drop in raw material is being transferred to retail. Our coffee volume was mostly impacted in March and April. Because of that spiking prices, nobody had clarity about how much these high prices could impact consumption.

We saw clients not buying as much because they didn’t know what would happen. And once prices were more stable, started to fall, volumes were resumed. March and April, volumes were lower. And then May and June May, they started to go back into place. In June, things are normal.

We are also focusing on growing this category. Things are growing gradually. March and April had an impact in the quarter, but our expectation for the remaining of the year is that this category will continue to grow. We had good profitability in the category in May when volumes were back into place. And we see a good outlook for the coming months.

I mean, this just speaks about the impact of prices to consumers. But how much that will go on, we don’t know yet. But the fact is that things are back to normal now. Now I’ll turn the floor to Flavio to talk about leverage. Laura, thank you for your question.

I will give you a broad answer. If you recall, in the past few years, mainly because of three factors, one being the fact that the company made big investments to enter in the categories that we thought would be good. And then there was the external scenario with increased interest rates, and this increased our debt position. And also, our operating results were not so good in the past few years. And that’s why our leverage level in the last quarter was 4.2% in the previous quarter, which was a quarter where we indeed look at the continent, and that was 4.9.

Therefore, your question, which is what would be the ideal leverage level, I believe that the company understands that if we look at both sides, having an efficient level on the financial side, a level that can allow us to be comfortable enough to have good performance, maybe a net debt to EBITDA level around 2% would be an ideal level for us to reach in the midrange. I think 2% gives us a good degree of comfort because if we have if something happens in the operation, you can be quick enough to address any topic. And also, if there is any opportunity for you to invest in a new company, you have an opportunity to go after that investment. Therefore, the ideal level that we will pursue is to but the question is how? Because when it comes to leverage, I mean, you can reduce it by force, by divesting, I mean, your assets or maybe changing your capital structure or with shareholders or you can also do that through operating leverage.

In relation to the first initial initiatives, these are initiatives that are not in the radar of the company, like divesting or selling things in Brazil abroad. This is not in our radar because we do understand that our strategy and our portfolio currently is the one that we deem to be adequate. And dilution is not in our agenda as well. Therefore, what happens is that, that leverage will improve gradually, and it will be a mix that will include better operating performance. And once we have a better economic scenario with lower CIC rates, this will also help us because interest expenses is what impacts our cash generation the most.

And looking at the operation of the company, we are just concluding a large investment to expand our plant in Cambay. It’s a large plant we have in the state of Rio Grande do Sul, and this plant processes grain and generates power. And going forward, our investment level should be lower. Therefore, if you look ahead, we will have improved operating dynamic. There will be probably lower ceiling grade and other factors that will lead to lower leverage levels.

Therefore, in summary, financially speaking, in terms of our loans up to last year was 13.2 times net debt to EBITDA ratio. And the next measurement to occur in February of twenty six with the settlement of the last track that was limited to 3.5%, that will go up to 4%. This will help us to achieve the goal, but it’s still far from being the ideal level for us to operate in the mid range. I hope I answered your question. Thank you very much, Luciano and Flavio, for your answers.

Super clear. Next question is from Thiago Hardwyn from Citi. I have a few points. First of all, I would like to revisit the high ask you how you see the growth in cookies. You talk about market share and how much that margin could grow.

I just want to get a better understanding about the evolution curve. My second point is on the international segment. You didn’t talk about that during the Q and A so far. So how is the performance in the different countries? How do you see profitability in the different countries?

I would just like to get a better understanding because you have operations in different countries with different brands. And my last point, very briefly, we saw the launch of the Union coffee capsules. So I would just like to get a better view of your strategy, your goal or any other information that you could give us. That will be very much appreciated. You.

Thiago, thank you for your questions. As for cookies, we are very much focused. Let me just tell you something. Here, we are running at onethree of what we believe to be the potential of this category. And I believe that the main challenge here for us to reach the full potential of the category lies in growing volumes.

Our view is that we want to run with the two plants that now run at 55%. This does not dilute our industrial costs in a significant way. So if we were to be running our plants at 55% capacity at the same price levels that we have today, profitability will then reach its full potential. Our focus, therefore, is in growing, keeping the prices that we have. So this will come through higher growth.

We still have a large potential of customers that are already served by other categories. Therefore, the company is very much focused in that direction. I mean, when you look at coffee, we want to grow volumes in the clients, the same thing we are doing with cookies now. This is a gradual evolution. The pace is lower than expected, but it is happening.

The current profitability level of Cookies, it’s consolidated. And gradually, we will pursue growth. And so as I was saying, we are focusing on sales execution and in capturing synergies between the different categories. And this better defines what we are doing in this high growth category. Now moving on to the international category.

The pricing dynamics in the four countries is very similar. Prices were down. Uruguay and in the future, Paraguay have a closer relationship to the Brazilian market. Chile is indirectly impacted because part of the rice they consume comes from the local market and the remaining is imported and the imported part was impacted. So speaking about each country in Uruguay, profitability remains good at historical levels.

There, the challenge happened this year because of the higher season. Uruguay will have 15% more rights to sell. So this could happen at higher or lower speed. There were years where volumes were up in the first half and in other years in the second half, but we have more availability of products to sell. Our domestic Uruguayan operation has good profitability.

We already capture all the synergies of that combined operation of La Bundanze, which was the acquisition we had a few years back to boost our rice operation there. So things are moving quite well in this regard. In Chile, profitability remains good, volumes are good. The challenge comes from the imported rice, which is cheaper than the locally produced rice. I mean, the varieties are different, but the price gap is larger.

This is not a new challenge. Last year, things were the same way. The gap is slightly bigger this year. The challenge is a bit fierce, but the company is performing well. In Ecuador, we struggle with profitability because of lower prices.

In Ecuador, they have two seasons in the year, one bigger than the other. The market dynamics is such that you take a position in the season and then you have rise in the off season. So when there is a drop in prices, this impacts profitability, and this is what happened a few quarters ago. And then in the last quarter, this was already solved. So in Ecuador, prices are slightly lower, but profitability is in place.

If you look at Peru, in Peru, profitability was gradually improving. In Peru, the EBITDA margin was almost zero last year. And quarter on quarter, we’ve been recovering that margin. In the last quarter, there was a drop in profitability. We understand it was one off situation because of the price impact.

But we believe that from now until the end of the year, we will see we will continue to see the gradually progress. And so with that, I mentioned every country. But in terms of Paraguay, Camille will take over the operation in the next thirty days. And Paraguay is facing price challenges and the same thing that other countries are facing. As for the coffee capsules launch, this market has good profitability.

Our product has very high quality. Our capsules are compatible to Nespresso system. We did a lot of research because O’Neill is dear to our heart. And all of the blind tests we ran, our position was very, very good, even better than international competitors. That’s why I’m very optimistic with this launch.

We are gradually getting new clients. The market operates differently when compared to other markets. The company has a lot to learn, and our marketing team is very is totally dedicated to sales of this segment. Even though volumes are small, it’s not this that will move the needle. But certainly, this will increase the margins for this brand, and it will improve the category as well.

And I think with that, I answered all of your questions. REPRESENTATIVE:] Next question came in writing from Matheus Paulini, investor. Says, good morning, and congrats on the results despite the tough scenario. In the last quarters, financial expenses, especially in view of the recent CVC increases, are really impacting the results, especially results related to the service of the debt. What are the company’s plans to reduce leverage?

I mean, given the current momentum of interest rates of the company, How do you see the resumption? Thank you. I think I already addressed this topic when I answered Laura’s question. Just as a recall, we believe that this reduction will be gradually once we will improve the operating results and the investment plans that will no longer have a heavy impact on our cash position. And if we see improvements in the economy and lower interest rates, these will be the main factors that will help us reduce the leverage.

And the company does not intend to sell assets or do anything more impactful. Next question also in writing from Gabriel Avila from Condor Insider. He says, Could you give me more details about what retailers are doing in restocking of grains? Do you see this as a temporary move? Or this indicates a more structural change in the purchasing model.

Gabriel, thank you for your question. Our view today is this is a temporary move. The overall feeling is that recovering of inventories after the recomposition of rice prices will happen gradually rather than something mostly concentrated in a few weeks. So this is the feeling we have today. This is a temporary move.

Not trying to be repetitive, but thank you, Gabriel, for your question. As a reminder for questions, just click in the raise hand button or use the Q and A button. Please wait while we collect your questions. As there are no further questions, the Q and A session is now concluded. And Camille’s video conference is also concluded.

Thank you so much for joining us, and have a very good day.

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