Earnings call transcript: Instone Real Estate projects strong cash flow in 2024

Instone Real Estate Group SE, with a market capitalization of €392 million, reported its financial performance for 2024, highlighting resilient financials and strategic initiatives despite a challenging market environment. The company achieved adjusted earnings after tax of €36.9 million, within the upper half of its guided range. Sales surged by 56% compared to the previous year, supported by a robust operating cash flow exceeding €100 million. According to InvestingPro data, the company maintains a solid financial health score of 2.57, rated as "GOOD." Instone also proposed a dividend of €0.26 per share. Looking forward, the company anticipates a sales volume exceeding €500 million in 2025, with revenue guidance set between €350-400 million.

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Key Takeaways

• Sales increased by 56% compared to 2023, indicating strong market demand.
• The company maintained a high gross margin of 22.6%.
• Instone’s net debt to EBITDA ratio improved to 2.1x, reflecting financial stability.
• A proposed dividend of €0.26 per share underscores shareholder returns.
• Instone anticipates 2025 as the trough of its earnings cycle.

Company Performance

Instone Real Estate demonstrated strong performance in 2024, with significant sales growth and stable profitability metrics. The company’s ability to increase sales by 56% year-over-year highlights its competitive positioning and effective market strategies. Trading at an EV/EBITDA ratio of 8.47x and maintaining a P/E ratio of 25.64x, Instone’s financial health is underscored by its net debt to EBITDA ratio of 2.1x and a robust cash position of €270 million, ensuring operational flexibility. The company’s current ratio of 2.17 further demonstrates its strong liquidity position.

Financial Highlights

• Revenue: Slightly below the previous year’s level.
• Gross margin: 22.6%.
• Adjusted earnings after tax: €36.9 million.
• Operating cash flow: Over €100 million.
• Net debt to EBITDA ratio: 2.1x.
• Loan-to-Cost (LTC) ratio: 10.5%.

Outlook & Guidance

Instone is optimistic about its future prospects, projecting a sales volume of over €500 million in 2025. The company expects revenue between €350-400 million and a gross margin around 23%. According to InvestingPro analysis, analyst consensus maintains a positive outlook, with price targets ranging from €9.82 to €14.74. Adjusted earnings after tax are anticipated to range from €25-35 million. Instone aims to maintain its dividend at €0.26 per share, reflecting confidence in its long-term growth strategy.

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Executive Commentary

CEO Krum Seppolje expressed confidence in the company’s trajectory, stating, "We strongly believe that we have passed the bottom of the cycle." CFO David Traitfus highlighted cost management, noting, "Our platform costs decreased despite higher provisions." These statements reflect Instone’s strategic focus on cost efficiency and market recovery.

Risks and Challenges

• Supply chain disruptions could impact project timelines and costs.
• Rising interest rates may affect financing conditions and investor sentiment.
• Market saturation in certain metropolitan areas could pressure sales growth.
• Regulatory changes in real estate could influence operational strategies.
• Macroeconomic uncertainties might affect overall market demand.

Q&A

During the earnings call, analysts inquired about the institutional market’s recovery, which is expected in the second half of 2025. The company also discussed its acquisition pipeline, with potential projects valued at €4 billion in gross development value. Instone noted minimal impact from recent interest rate volatility, indicating resilience in its financial planning.

Full transcript - Instem PLC (INS) Q4 2024:

Chorus Call Operator, Chorus Call: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Instone Real Estate Group SE Full Year twenty twenty four Results Conference Call. I am Youssef, the Chorus Call operator. I would like to remind you that all participants will be in listen only mode and that the conference is being recorded. The presentation will be followed by a Q and A session. At this time, it’s my pleasure to hand over to Bukhar Zawarski, Head of IR and Capital Market Communication and Strategy.

Please go ahead.

Bukhar Zawarski, Head of IR and Capital Market Communication and Strategy, Instone Real Estate Group: Thank you. Good morning, everyone. I would like to welcome you all to our full year twenty twenty four earnings call. Our CEO, Krum Seppolje and our CFO, David Traitfus will walk you through our presentation and give you an update on our current business performance and our new outlook. As usual, this will be followed by Q and A session.

With this, I would like to hand over directly to Bruno.

Krum Seppolje, CEO, Instone Real Estate Group: Hello, everyone, and thank you for joining our Q4 earnings call. I think the very important message is that we have once again achieved all our goals in a still challenging market environment. We actually saw very strong Q4 sales momentum, especially in the retail business with both private investors and owner occupiers, and we also managed to sign several institutional deals. As a result, we sold a volume of more than 170,000,000 in the fourth quarter, which has been our strongest quarter since Q4 ’twenty one. We view this as a clear confirmation that the market recovery is continuing.

We currently see especially strong momentum from buy to let investors. At the beginning of the year, we launched the marketing and presales process of three projects, one in Duisburg, close to the border of Dusseldorf, One in Frankfurt and one close to Stuttgart. All of these projects are perfectly tailored to the promotion scheme from the Growth Opportunities Act. The feedback we are currently getting from the market is really very encouraging. Looking at the institutional market, we achieved the signing of one larger and also three smaller deals in Q4 ’twenty four, mainly with cooperatives and also a foundation.

We are very happy with the result, but we don’t want to overstate this. Overall, the institutional market is still in rather difficult shape. Many customers are still very cautious. Our discussions with our institutional customers suggest that we can only expect a more pronounced recovery in the second half of the year. The current uncertain macro environment also contributes to this.

Another major achievement in the last twelve months was that we were able to further strengthen our balance sheet. We have a strong cash position of almost €270,000,000 and also very low financial gearing with an LTC ratio of only 10.5%. This puts us in a very good position when it comes to taking advantage of attractive growth opportunities at the trough of the cycle. Let’s now take a brief look at our financial KPIs for the full year 2024. We reached adjusted revenues of million fully in line with expectations.

Our gross margin remains at a high level of 22.6%, which was even slightly better than anticipated. We continue to view our margin as perhaps the best indicator of our operation excellence and leading profitability. We believe that this reflects the quality of our project portfolio and our cost leadership with our in house construction management. Our adjusted earnings after tax amounted to EUR 36,900,000.0, a result which is in the upper half of our guided range. On the back of a strong Q4, our sales increased by more than 56% to million compared to 2023.

In the current market environment, this is also a result which we can be very satisfied with. Based on the result we have achieved and our communicated payout ratio of 30%, we are proposing a dividend of $0.26 per share to the next AGM. We believe that we have passed the bottom of the cycle, although revenue and earnings in our business will follow with a certain time lag. We therefore plan that the dividend of $0.26 should also mark a floor for 2025. For the current full year 2025, we expect a continued dynamic sales recovery as a key lead indicator of our business.

We assume that demand will continue to rise significantly, but that it will still remain below pre crisis levels. Accordingly, we expect sales to reach a level of more than EUR 500,000,000 in 2025. We again expect revenue in the range of of million to million in 2025, although we are entering the year with a lower backlog of presales compared to the previous year. We expect a sustained very healthy gross margin of around 23 and adjusted earnings after taxes in the ballpark of €25,000,000 to €35,000,000 A key reason for the expected moderate decrease in the bottom line result is the release of capitalized interest costs with the start of sales of new projects. We expect that the continued sales recovery will translate into rising earnings in 2026 and beyond.

We have, of course, all noticed the recent spike in volatility on the bond markets as a result of the potential investment programs planned by the new German government. We cannot yet assess how the risk of sustainable higher interest rates and, on the other hand, improved growth prospects will affect our business. We have not yet been able to recognize any meaningful effects, at least not to date. We have had a significant increase in reservations since the beginning of the year, which has not changed materially due to the recent rise in interest rates, but we have still seen a few cancellations due to rising uncertainty. We continue to closely monitor the market and its implications for our business.

Moving on to Slide four in our presentation. Our sales ratio on the upper chart illustrates the sound sales performance of our retail business in the fourth quarter. The most important customer group are the buy to let investors. Overall, our single unit sales increased by some 82% compared to the previous year’s trough levels. The steady upward trend over the last two years, including the typical seasonal FX, is also shown on the chart at the bottom.

The development of the sales ratio also demonstrates that we saw the typical seasonal FX at the beginning of the year with a traditionally weaker seasonality. However, in recent weeks, we have again seen a nice pickup in demand. While we have already seen a certain positive impact from the promotion scheme of the Growth Opportunities Act in 2024, we are now starting to see much stronger effects. We launched the sales start of three new projects this February. All of these projects are perfectly tailored to the new promotion scheme, and they benefit from both the 5% aggressive depreciation in combination with the 5% special depreciation over four years for energy efficient buildings.

This allows us for very attractive post tax returns. The initial market feedback is very positive. We have already signed the first notary contracts, and we have secured a substantial number of reservations. We observe that investor sentiment has improved over the past month. The rising awareness that property prices, especially for new builds in good quality locations, have bottomed out in combination with the rising rents and wages is a key driver for this.

Coming to the institutional business. We are very pleased that we were able to close a larger deal with a volume of almost 70,000,000 and also several smaller deals in Q4. We have already been able to sell a sub project of the Grafenthal project to a foundation. We had acquired the land just a few months earlier. The return on capital is therefore very attractive for us.

In the Grafenthal project, we sold the affordable part, benefiting from attractive promotion schemes for the investor. However, it is still fair to say that the institutional market is still quite challenging. The political uncertainty in the run up to the German general election and also due to the current political discussion around debt finance fiscal programs contribute to this. Our guidance takes into account a broader recovery of the institutional market in H2. We are already in talks with a number of institutional investors with regard to a number of specific projects.

On the next slide, we provide a breakdown of our sales and revenues. Despite the successful signing of institutional deals, the share of this customer segment is significantly below pre crisis levels. A stronger recovery of this customer segment is still the biggest swing factor. In the coming months, however, we expect strongest momentum from the demand from private buy to let investors, driven by the promotion scheme of the Growth Opportunities Act. On the following slides six and seven, we provide you with an overview of relevant market indicators for our business.

An important development in 2024 was certainly the bottoming out of prices for newbuilds. There are rising indications that prices in metropolitan areas have already passed the trough. In addition, important value driver for our business, the end of deflationary pressure is also a generally very important factor for the uptick in demand as pressure on buyers has started to rise again. New built apartments remain the first choice for investors also due to the superior rental development. Rising property yields from dynamic rent growth were a main factor for the price stabilization in the market.

This ongoing positive rent trend is also confirmed by the recent data provided by Volum Geyser for the top seven cities. Recent data even show a further acceleration in the fourth quarter. The positive underlying demand trend is reinforced by decreasing supply and therefore rising scarcity of energy efficient apartments in good quality locations. Over to Slide seven, which illustrates construction price inflation over time. The most recent data from the Federal Statistics Office confirm a continuation of the trend of the last few quarters with the moderate CPI growth.

In the fourth quarter, the Q on Q price development decreased further. We actually believe that the market is showing a more differentiated picture. According to our own on the ground experience, the cost increase is very low, if any. Our explanation would be that there is fiercer competition among construction companies for the limited number of larger residential housing projects in the market. We are clearly benefiting from this.

All of our construction projects are on budget. We are convinced that INSTONE is clearly a cost leader in the industry and our co product with our own construction management and especially with our innovative new product. Against this backdrop, we have started to offer our development services to third parties at very attractive price points, while still generating attractive margins. Our subsidiary new is currently in several discussions with third parties such as privately and publicly owned housing companies for development on their own land translating into low CapEx requirements for us. Innstone’s ability to build profitably at low price point via its new product was also the key success factor in closing the recent fast forward institutional deal of the Grafenthal project in Q4 ’twenty four.

Moving on to Slide eight. As discussed in previous earnings calls, Innstone has weathered the crisis very well based on its strong balance sheet, leading margins and the high presales ratio. The latter has provided a sound basis for earnings and cash flow visibility. To give you just a brief update on this, projects worth EUR 2,800,000,000.0 are currently under construction, of which 92% have already been sold. This provides a stable source of future revenues of more than EUR $470,000,000 as well as for secure future cash flows of some EUR 190,000,000.

Over the past two years, we have already generated substantial cash flows from these presold projects under construction as David will highlight on the following slides. As soon as the market reopens more broadly, we will be able to accelerate our sales significantly with an existing land bank with projects that have already obtained building rights of around billion. We are currently also very active on the acquisition side in order to significantly increase our medium term growth profile. We have already closed very attractive acquisitions in 2024, but we were still very selective overall as we still considered the asking prices of many sellers to be too high. The situation has now improved.

Our patience is paying off. We are currently among the final bidders for potential project transactions with a sales volume of around billion and have already been able to agree exclusivity for transactions with a GDV of around million. We are therefore confident that we will be able to close further attractive acquisitions in the coming months. I would now like to hand over to David for the financial section of the presentation. Thank you.

David Traitfus, CFO, Instone Real Estate Group: Thank you, Koonor. Let me now walk you through our full year 2024 financials in a bit more detail starting on Page 10. As Koono has already pointed out, we are pleased that we delivered a very solid set of results and that we have reached all of our financial targets in a still challenging market environment. Fully in line with our expectations, our adjusted revenues are slightly below previous year’s level, mainly due to the expected lower construction output. The bulk of the revenues was still derived from presold projects under construction.

The share will decrease in 2025, but this is expected to be compensated by a higher contribution from new sales. We have continued to produce high gross margins of 22.6%, which was even a notch better than expected. Our profitability is still a benchmark in our industry, also compared to other disappears with exposure to German residential development. As we already flagged in our previous call, there was temporary margin decrease in Q4 due to an expected change in the revenue mix. There was a high revenue contribution from a Westville sub project with a lower margin as well as from a lower margin office building, which was part of a larger project.

Furthermore, we have sold all remaining units of our projects, which were completed in 2024. We do not have any remaining inventory risks from these projects. This is also exceptional in our industry in the current markets. Our platform costs decreased despite higher provisions for our LTIP due to a share price increase in 2024. Our underlying staff costs decreased quite substantially by around 11%, clearly showing that our interest are bearing fruit.

Further down in the P and L, we saw a significant decline in our net interest expenses. This was mainly attributable to lower net debt and the related soaring interest income on our meaningful cash position. As a result, we achieved an adjusted earnings after tax of million in the upper half of our targeted range for 2024. We believe this is a very decent result in the current market. Over to Page 11.

INSTONE during the crisis very much benefited from a high backlog of presold projects, which represented a sound basis for strong and predictable cash flows. We have already collected a large part of this. Due to the generated cash flow, we were able to substantially improve our balance sheet rate. Our LTC ratio dropped to a very low level of 10.5% at year end. Despite the lower earnings level, at the trough of the cycle, net debt to EBITDA is only at 2.1 times.

This gives us ample headroom for acquisitions in an environment which we view as a buyer’s market for land. Moving to the next slide. The presold projects, as just mentioned, remain a substantial cash generator for Instone. Our strong operating cash flow of more than EUR 100,000,000 in 2024 is shown in the table on the left hand side. It was the second year in a row where we were able to generate such a high cash flow.

Our selective approach on acquisitions was, of course, also a major contributor to this. The cash outflow for land payments was million in 2024, of which million relate to land acquisitions from previous years. The two projects that we acquired in 2024, Lanwarte in Frankfurt and Grafenthal in Dusseldorf, are already in the sales process. Indeed, there was just a cash payment of million for the Grafenthal project in Q4. Hence, I think this shows that we were able to negotiate quite favorable payment terms on those two acquisitions.

This all leads to Innstone’s very strong liquidity position of almost million at year end. Correspondingly, Innstone has a significant net cash position on the corporate level. In addition, we have access to revolving credit facilities totaling around million. This comprises a new credit line of million that we signed at year end. This is once again strong confirmation that we have full access to all relevant debt products in a financing market, which is still very challenging for our industry.

INStone is really in an exceptional position here. After having signed two projects with a GDV of million in ’twenty four, we are now in advanced discussions for several new deals in ’twenty five. As Koono has already pointed out, we currently have a substantial acquisition pipeline where we are among the final bidders and an acquisition pipeline with a GDV of more than million under exclusivity. Hence, we have reason to be confident that you can expect the signing of some very promising deals in the coming months. Over to chart 13, which gives us an overview of our financing structure at year end.

Overall, we have a very balanced maturity profile with low refinancing volumes in individual years, which also contributes to our strong financial profile. Finally, coming to our outlook on Page 13. As already pointed out and although the uncertainty has somewhat increased recently, we expect the recovery to continue in 2025 with an institutional market, which is expected to see a broader recovery in the second half of the year. However, we expect sound momentum in our retail business with tailwinds from our recent sales starts in the coming months. Accordingly, we anticipate a sales volume of more than million in 2025.

We again expect revenues in the ballpark of million to million, I. E, the same guidance range as in 2024. Revenue generation in ’twenty five will be supported by the remaining sales from our projects already under construction. We expect a sustained high gross margin of around 23% and a somewhat lower bottom line result mainly due to the release of capitalized interest with the start of sales of new projects, which are scheduled in 2025. We expect the year 2025 to mark the trough of the earnings cycle, and therefore, it is our clear intention to keep the dividend for 2025 at least at the level of per share.

With this, I would like to conclude the presentation and move on to the Q and A session.

Chorus Call Operator, Chorus Call: We will now begin the question and answer The first question comes from Philip Keiser from Warburg Research. Please go ahead.

Philip Keiser, Analyst, Warburg Research: Yes. Hello, everyone. Congrats to the sound operating performance and for taking thanks for taking my questions. Just a couple from my side. I would go through them one by one, starting with two just for the clarification.

With regards to your Slide five in the presentation, the revenue mix and your target for this year, the column is just the announced guidance and there’s no indication for your expected revenue mix. Is that right?

David Traitfus, CFO, Instone Real Estate Group: Yes, Filip. That is correct. We do not provide guidance on our revenue mix. However, we can say that the previous year sort of indicates directionally also an indication for ’25.

Philip Keiser, Analyst, Warburg Research: Okay. Thanks a lot. Thanks for the clarification. And then could you just quickly remind me, so for this year, you already secured sales worth NOK300 million. Is it still correct?

David Traitfus, CFO, Instone Real Estate Group: That is correct. We have sales this year, which are secured, which is close to NOK300 million.

Philip Keiser, Analyst, Warburg Research: Okay.

David Traitfus, CFO, Instone Real Estate Group: So not fully NOK300 million.

Philip Keiser, Analyst, Warburg Research: Okay. Thanks again for the clarification.

David Traitfus, CFO, Instone Real Estate Group: And not sales, sorry, it’s revenues, just to be correct.

Philip Keiser, Analyst, Warburg Research: Yes. Yes. Thanks. Yes, sure. And then with regards to the industry sales in the last quarter, with regards to closing, where all the closings expected in the last quarter, were there any shifts?

So quite hard to get a feeling about the start of this year.

Krum Seppolje, CEO, Instone Real Estate Group: So we had the signings last year and there are no, let’s say, major exit possibilities for the investors. So you can say, if you don’t have this description signing and closing, it’s more like signing and then we, of course, have to construct the project. But there’s no exit major exit possibility for the vessels.

David Traitfus, CFO, Instone Real Estate Group: Maybe I can just add, Filip. Sure. We made a statement around the payment for those land plots, one of which was paid and therefore, if you wish closed in 2024 and one of which we were able to push out the payment into Q1 twenty twenty five. And therefore, closing, if you wish, only happens with the payment this year, but sort of we get ownership of that land at the time of signing.

Philip Keiser, Analyst, Warburg Research: Okay. Perfect. Thanks a lot. Then with regards to the material expansion, so in relation to adjusted revenues, it came down significantly. Can we expect or applicable this ratio for the coming years?

Are there any major changes with regards to different materials?

Krum Seppolje, CEO, Instone Real Estate Group: Can you maybe repeat the question?

Philip Keiser, Analyst, Warburg Research: Sure, sure. Of course. So the material expenses, so at least in relation to your adjusted revenues came down significantly compared to the other years, which might be in line with the overall decline in Construction Materials. Can this ratio be applicable for the coming year? So can we expect a, yes, kind of site wise development of your material expenses?

Or do you see any thing on the horizon which might increase potential construction materials or even a further decline?

Krum Seppolje, CEO, Instone Real Estate Group: I think we have to differentiate between the material expenses we have on the balance sheet, where of course, I think for the coming years, as mentioned, we see 25%, the trough regarding the revenue recognition and therefore, we expect in the coming years revenues going up and of course the material expenses also will accordingly go up. Regarding the material costs inflation here, I think we’ve seen in twenty twenty four parts of the materials inflating. As you mentioned, overall, the CPI growth was flat and this is that construction costs in total stayed flat and this means that the companies have expected some kind of margin decline. And going forward, I think we also expect for this year that construction costs should stay flat, but the same I would say the same situation like further material price inflation compensated by the acceptance of margins going down. And the question, of course, is then how these potential freedom and, or let’s say, the stop of the war in Ukraine has impact or how the infrastructure program could have impact.

This is for us difficult to anticipate today because it will come, I would say, over the years. So it won’t be a direct immediate impact, but I think that going forward next years, there could be material price inflation driven by these two, let’s say, impacts war stopping and the infrastructure program, which is currently discussed today in Bundestag, yes.

Philip Keiser, Analyst, Warburg Research: Okay. Thanks. Fully understood. And then you already mentioned this defense and infra program. Apart from potential increase for material prices, do you see probably any other negative impacts maybe with regards to the availability of craftmans, for example?

Any other implications for your business?

Krum Seppolje, CEO, Instone Real Estate Group: So I think overall, the current construction market is suffering. When you look at our part of the market, so building flats and also office buildings, which are using the same source of workers. I think that, of course, if and again, I think we think that the order books are still weak of the companies. So hopefully the infrastructure program is helping. Many of the mid sized companies to, let’s say,

Philip Keiser, Analyst, Warburg Research: stay alive.

Krum Seppolje, CEO, Instone Real Estate Group: Otherwise, I think for us it means we will see no cost price inflation. That’s our personal, let’s say, view.

Andre Remke, Analyst, Badabank: Of course,

Krum Seppolje, CEO, Instone Real Estate Group: after going forward, we will see CPI growth again. And will this be mainly influenced by the Infrastructure Act? I think it’s a part of it, but it’s not really impacting, let’s say, the part of the business we are in. It’s partly like schools or others. The whole streets and bridges are not the companies we are working with usually.

This will have more an impact on material cost inflation like concrete, etcetera. Here we have the same source. But overall, I think there will be impact, but I don’t expect this to come this year. And you know how long you need in Germany to plan a bridge and streets and etcetera. So it will take some time.

Philip Keiser, Analyst, Warburg Research: Yes, absolutely right. Thank you, Lars. Very helpful impact. And my last question, I know it’s uncertainty is still there and you also mentioned that probably this year going to be the trough year of revenues. At least trying to look a bit ahead 2026 and beyond, do you already it’s kind of possible to say when you will hit the 1,000,000,000 mark in sales volume, will it already be 2026 or 2027 or still, yeah, too uncertain to give it an exact date?

David Traitfus, CFO, Instone Real Estate Group: So, Filip, I think we generally our goal is to obviously get back to pre crisis levels, as you have mentioned, which is sort of the SEK1 billion sales mark. And we hope to get there and we will have more clarity during the course of this year, but it’s still our intention to get there towards SEK26.

Philip Keiser, Analyst, Warburg Research: Okay, perfect. And maybe one follow-up on your strong operating cash flow last year and also the year before. And you already mentioned there are potential acquisitions in the pipeline. So what can we expect for at least this year from your operating cash flow? Any insights would be helpful.

David Traitfus, CFO, Instone Real Estate Group: So that heavily depends on the acquisition pipeline. We also have obviously with the sales start of a lot of the retail product, initially some construction phase where we use cash instead of building cash flow. So this year, the cash flow will look weaker compared to previous years. We will not provide a detailed guidance on cash flow, but it will definitely be weaker.

Philip Keiser, Analyst, Warburg Research: Perfect. Thanks a lot. Very, very helpful details. I will back in the queue.

Krum Seppolje, CEO, Instone Real Estate Group: You’re welcome. Thank you.

Chorus Call Operator, Chorus Call: The next question comes from Andre Remke from Badabank. Please go ahead.

Andre Remke, Analyst, Badabank: Yes, good morning, sir. A couple of questions also from my side. Thanks for the presentation. First question is on the current situation in Germany. There are many moving parts concerning the political framework with the case decision and upcoming coalition talks, etcetera.

What are your view on that? What are your expectation or grasp for your industry? And probably more important, what is the current reaction from institutional investors? Are they stepping back to a kind of wait and see motors? This is the first question, please.

Krum Seppolje, CEO, Instone Real Estate Group: So I start with the last one. So we have been at the MeePim fair recently and there this the program of the government was clear and also the rise of interest rate we’ve seen in the market. And what we are facing here, the reaction was like from international investors looking more positive on Germany than the German itself, but this is, I think, a normal reaction. Overall, I think and we talked to many institutional buyers, I think that resi investments and here newbuild resi investments are seen as the one of the most attractive areas and here, let’s say, the investors have appetite. Now you mentioned the volatility.

I think, of course, this is still there the case because we’ve seen a lot of changes in the macro politics. We’ve seen a lot of discussion and every felt every morning opening the newspaper is a new news in the newspaper. But overall, I think when I look prospectively, we strongly believe, looking at the appetite of investors, that there will be deals this year. We have been cautious regarding our guidance for this year. We think that the most activities from institutional buyers will come in the second half.

And we’ve seen also the last year and the last quarter already really good activities here. So we are still optimistic, and I think we had very, very good discussion on the MeePim fare. Overall, the situation in Germany, I think, when you look at the infrastructure

Thomas Roth Heusler, Analyst, Deutsche Bank: investments,

Krum Seppolje, CEO, Instone Real Estate Group: resi is not mentioned directly. We think that we need more housing that’s for all the parties, I think, clear. We will see what brings us in detail the program and is really worked out in detail is there additional money for resi that would be positive, but we haven’t calculated with it. So our guidance we made for 2025 is looking at the sales activities we’ve seen in the past in the last few weeks and months. The ongoing sales start we made have been very positive, So this encourages us in our view.

But as said, I think volatility is still there. And if the market is staying as is today and looking back in the last few weeks, we are confident that our guidance is a realistic scenario for this year.

Andre Remke, Analyst, Badabank: Okay, perfect. Brings into the second question. You mentioned that some institutional sales in the last quarter were supported by, how you call it, favor promotion schemes. What do you mean by that? And do you expect more to come here or other way around with those transactions not happen without such promotion schemes, whatever it is?

Krum Seppolje, CEO, Instone Real Estate Group: So we have two or let’s say two main different schemes and the social housing scheme is different from city to city, from state to state. But I think two main schemes like the depreciation scheme, which is implemented by the Growth Opportunity Act and lasts until ’twenty nine. And this scheme, of course, gives our private buy to let investors really attractive terms to reduce their tax payments. And when you look at the double depreciation possibility by 10% of the investment costs over four years and then going down to roughly 3%, but this means 40% in the first four years is really attractive. And it’s not a you know, it’s not nothing you can change from day to day.

It’s a tax law, which is due until ’29. And the second, let’s say, scheme I mentioned with our Grafenthal project, this is related to subsidized social housing where the $20,000,000,000 the government has already implemented, it relates to this scheme where and here it depends from state to state, from city to city, you get either, let’s say, the biggest part of the construction financed with very attractive terms or you can also get some kind of subsidy, which is a lump sum you get per square meter. So and this for Grafenthal, we have both. And this attracts investors because they are getting to decent cash on cash returns. And over the whole time period, social housing, subsidy housing, with attractive terms attracted investors also in the last two years.

When you look back at our institutional sales, they were always related to a subsidy scheme for social housing.

Andre Remke, Analyst, Badabank: Okay, okay, I got it. So there are no special promotion schemes which only belongs to this transaction, but it’s the overall state programs.

Krum Seppolje, CEO, Instone Real Estate Group: Yes, that’s right.

David Traitfus, CFO, Instone Real Estate Group: Okay, then I get it. Thank you.

Andre Remke, Analyst, Badabank: You are expecting sales volume of more than 500,000,000. Could you split this up in your expectations, at least roughly for the private and institutional side?

Krum Seppolje, CEO, Instone Real Estate Group: So overall, I think 50% institutional, 50% private and of the 50% private, I would assume that in total, 30% overall is buy to let and 20% owner occupiers. With, let’s say, the possibility that the buy to let investors space will be bigger. So they we will see extremely strong appetite from the first three sales starts. It could lead to more from the buy to let investors side.

Andre Remke, Analyst, Badabank: Okay, perfect. And then the last question on your acquisition pipeline or plans, you mentioned a substantial pipeline. Are These advanced projects or we talked in the past about that or are there land plots in the pipeline? So what is potentially the mix here and what could we expect in terms of gross margins in those pipeline projects? Could we apply the usual 25%?

Is it right to assume?

Krum Seppolje, CEO, Instone Real Estate Group: Yeah. So starting with the 25%, I would say yes. Of course, it depends on smaller project, bigger project, building permit already there. So these are the differentiators, but overall, I think 25% is a realistic approach. Regarding and this is also important, we have bought two projects last year.

We wanted to buy more, but the sellers hadn’t accepted in, let’s say, in many of, let’s say, the competitions we see in the market haven’t accepted the new price reality. And this is now different. So we see that more and more landlords are coming into the market where the seller is expecting, after some push, the new price reality. And here we have signed exclusivity for more than £500,000,000 And these are more short term oriented projects. And then we have also from the SEK 4,000,000,000 in total where we have a, let’s say, where we think the we see the chance more than 60% to get there, we have different parts, let’s say, different types of projects.

Also long more long term oriented, but all are like whether a master plan has already been started. So it’s like more a two to three years time period we need for getting to the zoning and a big part are more short term oriented projects. But the major change in comparison to last year is that we are seeing more and more chance in the market for really attractive land for reasonable pricing. And this is the main change in comparison to twenty twenty four.

Thomas Roth Heusler, Analyst, Deutsche Bank: Okay, perfect. That’s

Andre Remke, Analyst, Badabank: from my side. Thank you very much.

Krum Seppolje, CEO, Instone Real Estate Group: Thank you.

Chorus Call Operator, Chorus Call: The next question comes from Thomas Roth Heusler from Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead.

Thomas Roth Heusler, Analyst, Deutsche Bank: Hi. A couple of questions. The first one is on your guidance. Just wondering if your guidance would have been more upbeat if you wouldn’t have seen the recent rate hike? And maybe also on that, I mean, by when do you expect to have more color on the impact on sales activity from higher rates?

David Traitfus, CFO, Instone Real Estate Group: So Thomas, thank you for your question. We effectively have guidance of more than 500 that we have set prior to the rate hike that has happened. And we feel based on what we have also mentioned and what we have seen on the ground over the past weeks that we feel still confident that that is the right level. Obviously, we hope to outperform if rates move a bit again in our favor the set 500 limit.

Thomas Roth Heusler, Analyst, Deutsche Bank: Just wondering, I mean, if you look at the most recent dynamics in your sales activity, let’s say, in the last two, three weeks, I guess it’s still tough to assess the impact of the higher rates because it’s only happened like the last ten days or so. Therefore, I’m wondering, I mean, what is your experience also historically? By when, how quickly can you see the impact on actual sales activity? Yes,

Krum Seppolje, CEO, Instone Real Estate Group: I think what is Thomas, I think what’s also important to mention is, we recently started three projects for, let’s say, the buy to let investor space. And we have here generated and that’s what Dowd is saying, which makes us confident, We have made more than 100 reservations, where we currently have, you know, we are following the clients very closely to get to the notary deeds. We have already signed contracts and we have only very, very limited cancellations of the reservation. So what we currently face is clearly that, yes, there is a interest rate inflation. Does it has major impact on our sales in the projects we are currently ongoing, I would say not really a huge implication.

So this is one. And the second is for buy to let investors, the interest rate costs could be deducted when we look at overall the income tax scheme. So it’s not really impacting in the same way maybe as the owner occupier business.

Philip Keiser, Analyst, Warburg Research: Okay. Got it.

Thomas Roth Heusler, Analyst, Deutsche Bank: And also, I mean, coming back on the recent rate hike, I mean, do you think this could impact also the sector overall again with regards to maybe for the distressed sales, which actually you could benefit from by maybe even more acquisition opportunities.

Krum Seppolje, CEO, Instone Real Estate Group: I fully agree. I think what we have seen already in the discussion and negotiation that the sellers, have seen the sun going up again and trying to play like we have time. Now it’s different because I think that this further rise in interest rates, I think pushed them further to make a closing or signing. I think the sales and acquisition, of course. But overall, again, I think looking through this volatility, I strongly believe that supplydemand imbalance is making its way because the rent price are inflating massively.

And the further all construction activities went down and this is increasing further the pressure on the market. So overall, I think it’s a good market and we will see prices starting to rise again and we have to look through this volatility and that’s the way how we look at this market.

Thomas Roth Heusler, Analyst, Deutsche Bank: Okay. And last one is actually on this capitalized interest you’ve released due to the start of new projects. I mean, what is the magnitude roughly what we should consider in your guidance?

David Traitfus, CFO, Instone Real Estate Group: So the capitalized interest that is being released is approximately somewhere between CHF 10,000,000 and CHF 15,000,000.

Thomas Roth Heusler, Analyst, Deutsche Bank: Okay. All right. Thank you.

Krum Seppolje, CEO, Instone Real Estate Group: Thank you, Dallas.

Chorus Call Operator, Chorus Call: The next question comes from Manuel Martin, Odobhath. Please go ahead.

Manuel Martin, Analyst, Odobhath: Thank you, gentlemen. Just one question. I’m looking at the slide number 14 on the guidance. Maybe you can explain again the range of the adjusted earnings after tax, which is lower than in 2024. You explained it already, I think, it might have to do with capitalized interest, But maybe you can lead or remind me again how this affects the lower earnings after taxes guidance, please.

David Traitfus, CFO, Instone Real Estate Group: Yes. So just let me just give you a couple of sentences on how we book our interest. So during the phase presale starts, we capitalize interest and we start releasing those again once we go into the sales start. And as we have a lot of sales starts happening during 2025, you will see those capitalized interest falling into the fully into the interest expense line, which increases the interest expense, the total interest expense by the order of magnitude that I’ve just mentioned before. So effectively that if you deduct that from the net income level that you have seen in 2024 that gives you the difference between where we were in terms of guidance last year and the guidance that we have given for 2025.

Manuel Martin, Analyst, Odobhath: Okay. Okay. Good hint. I will have closer look to that. Thank you.

Chorus Call Operator, Chorus Call: Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question. I would now like to turn the conference back over to Burkhard Zawaski for any closing remarks.

Bukhar Zawarski, Head of IR and Capital Market Communication and Strategy, Instone Real Estate Group: Thank you for your participation. If you need further information, please do not hesitate to contact the CN Stone IR team. Thank you very much. Goodbye.

Chorus Call Operator, Chorus Call: Ladies and gentlemen, the conference is now over. Thank you for choosing Chorus Call and thank you for participating in the conference. You may now disconnect your lines. Goodbye.

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