Earnings call transcript: Knauss Tabataki Q4 2024 reveals revenue decline

Knauss Tabataki (market cap: €160 million) reported a significant decline in revenue for the fiscal year 2024, with total revenue reaching €1.08 billion, a 24.9% decrease compared to 2023. According to InvestingPro analysis, the company appears undervalued based on its Fair Value assessment. Despite the challenging financial results, the company anticipates improved performance in 2025 with projected revenue of €1 billion and an adjusted EBITDA margin of 5-6.5%. InvestingPro analysis reveals several key insights about the company’s financial position, with 6 additional ProTips available to subscribers.

Key Takeaways

• Revenue for 2024 decreased by 24.9% to €1.08 billion.
• Adjusted EBITDA margin stood at 2.6%.
• The company plans a workforce reduction to achieve cost savings.
• Production was suspended from mid-November to January 2025.
• European leisure vehicle registrations increased by 4.5% in 2024.

Company Performance

Knauss Tabataki faced a challenging year in 2024, marked by a nearly 25% drop in revenue. The company attributed this decline to several one-time negative effects, including strategic realignment costs and legal fees. Despite these setbacks, the firm remains optimistic about its future, focusing on streamlining operations and optimizing its product portfolio.

Financial Highlights

• Revenue: €1.08 billion, a 24.9% decline from 2023.
• Adjusted EBITDA: €28.4 million, with a margin of 2.6%.
• Order backlog as of December 31, 2024: €480 million.
• One-time negative impacts included €20 million for strategic realignment and €9 million in combined legal fees and loan write-offs.

Outlook & Guidance

For 2025, Knauss Tabataki expects revenue to reach €1 billion, with an adjusted EBITDA margin between 5% and 6.5%. Analyst consensus from InvestingPro provides a moderate buy recommendation, with price targets ranging from €16.24 to €32.49. The company aims to normalize inventory levels by the end of summer 2025 and plans to focus on producing vehicles on order to manage inventory efficiently.

Executive Commentary

Radim Seftik, CFO, emphasized the company’s strong foundation and strategic focus: "Canal Stabbard is a company with a long history. Over decades, we have established ourselves as a leading manufacturer of leisure vehicles." He also highlighted the company’s commitment to producing vehicles on order to avoid unnecessary stock buildup.

Risks and Challenges

• High dealer inventory levels pose a risk to sales momentum.
• Geopolitical uncertainties and fluctuating interest rates could impact market demand.
• The planned workforce reduction may affect operational efficiency.
• Supply chain disruptions remain a potential challenge.
• Market normalization trends could affect pricing strategies.

Knauss Tabataki’s strategic realignment and focus on cost savings are expected to support its recovery efforts. As the company navigates market challenges, its emphasis on innovation and operational efficiency will be crucial for future growth.

Full transcript - Krakatoa Resources Ltd (KTA) Q4 2024:

Conference Moderator: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and a warm welcome to today’s earnings call of the Knauss Tabataki. Following the publication of the financial year figures of 02/2024. We are delighted to welcome the CFO, Radem Sevcik, who will speak in a moment and guide us through the presentation and the results. After the presentation, we will move on to a q and a session in which you will be allowed to place your questions directly to the management. We’re looking forward to the results.

And having said this, mister Seftik, please, stage is yours.

Radim Seftik, CFO, Knauss Tabataki: Thank you very much. And good morning, ladies and gentlemen. On behalf of the Knauss Tubberht management team, let me welcome you to today’s conference call. My name is Radim Seftik, as mentioned, and I am the CFO of the company. The last several weeks and months have put all of us to the test as a company, but also as individuals who care about Canal Stabbard.

Since the second quarter twenty twenty four, the Supervisory Board and some of its members have been more actively engaged with the company. Since September, this engagement then became even more extensive. And in November 2024, Vim Depundur personally took responsibility for steering the company as its CEO. I have been working with Wim for multiple years now and refocused on Canal Stobber after the summer, having joined him on the management board of the company in early December. Let’s dive right in.

Canal Stabbard’s financial year 2024 has been a very turbulent one with no shortage of negative surprises, but also one that we believe should become a foundation for a more positive future. On one hand, there is the external environment, which is characterized by strong end customer demand, but also by a distribution channel that is relatively saturated with products that have been produced by us and our competitors to satisfy the extraordinary demand of the past years. Then there is the situation specific to Canal Stabbard, which is characterized by the same strength that have been the drivers of our success in the past years, but which have in recent quarters not been adapted to the new market reality and resulted in a situation that required emergency measures in the fourth quarter and will require further realignment in 2025 in order to address our balance sheet and our profitability. And third, there is a new management team, the transition to which has started already in September, but which has been accelerated by the profit warning in October and events surrounding the allegations of criminal activity against former members of the management board of CalSTABRRT in November. Before we address in more detail the results of the financial year and the substance of the realignment and the measures taken and planned in connection with the economic stabilization and redirection of Knauss Tabard, I would like to give you a summary of the situation surrounding the changes in our management board.

On November, the business premises of Canal Stobberts were searched as part of a public prosecutor’s investigation directed against individual and now former members of the management of Canal Stobberts in connection with allegations of criminal acts at the expense of Canal Staubert, specifically the former CSO and COO. Immediately as the allegations became known, Canal Staubert cooperated fully with the public prosecutor’s office and at the same time initiated its own investigations with external support from a forensic consultant in order to be able to appropriately react to the allegations towards the entities allegedly involved, but also to exclude any more individuals or activities that could have gone unnoticed by the public prosecutor that can continue to work to the detriment of Canal Stobber. This process was then closely monitored by our auditor, who also took an active part. The result of this investigation was also an important factor in our negotiations with our financing partners, but also with customers, suppliers, and other stakeholders. Based on our current level of knowledge, having concluded the investigation with the data we have currently available, the alleged criminal activity has been limited to the two former management board members.

In terms of the entities which were allegedly part of this activity, we have taken very firm steps to terminate our relationship with them. The damage that Canal Stobber has suffered is largely reflected in our accounts via increased prices or provisions that the company seems to have paid to certain suppliers. None of these suppliers were critical suppliers to the company. The company is also looking at ways how to reclaim part or all of the damages back. In this context, it is important for me to emphasize again that Knauss Tabrette is not the subject of the investigation, but is the damaged party.

Let me move on to the next slide. Demand for leisure vehicles in Europe is at a stable and strong level. This is also shown by the latest registration data. According to the CIVD, four point five percent more vehicles of all categories were registered in Europe in calendar year 2024 than in the same year in 2023. However, demand has now normalized since the corona times, and some factors have been working against us.

Higher interest rates in Europe or geopolitical uncertainties to name but a few. Despite these uncertainties, one important constant remains, the enthusiasm for caravanning in our core European markets. Over the past four years, Canal Stabbard has increased capacity, staffing levels, and production in line with market demand. However, with the normalization of this demand, albeit at very healthy levels, our capacity has proven too high, certainly in the short term. And while the prior management has made some efforts to adapt starting in the spring twenty twenty four, looking back, these measures were not implemented early enough and have not gone far enough.

As such, and while the situation has improved since we took decisive measures at the end of last year, we have been faced with high inventory levels, both at Klaus Tubberts and at our dealers. The management team is now receiving additional support as the realignment progresses. Jochen Hein, an experienced industry expert, will join the management team as chief operating officer from the May 1. Among other engagements, he spent eight years as technical managing director of the Humor brand. As director of digitalization, he also played a key role in developing the Erwin Humor Group’s digitalization strategy.

Since January, we have also been working with Matyaz Guram, a renowned industry expert, as a consultant. The former chief sales officer of AdriaMobil brings with him many years of experience in the caravanning industry and has already proven his expertise by successfully managing a high performance product development and sales and marketing organization. These additions to the existing management team will support Canal Stabbard’s progress in its strategic realignment. Canal Stobard has faced significant disruptions in recent years. Some of them have been common to the whole industry.

Some of the more recent ones have been inflicted from within. I would first like to put today’s presentation in the context of 2023 as it provides the basis to understand the present. Twenty twenty three financial year ended with sales of over 30,000 units and corresponding revenue and EBITDA figures. These were units that the dealers had ordered at that time and that formed the backlog the company was working to satisfy. However, at the time of delivery, these were also units that no longer corresponded to the actual long term sustainable end customer demand.

And so while a predominant majority of these deliveries were customer vehicles, a still significant proportion of these vehicles were then ultimately dealer stocks that corresponded to the, let’s say, excessive optimism of both the dealers and also the prior management in relation to sustainable demand. This high number of vehicles in stock that no longer flowed out quickly enough initially at the dealers, but then due to their subdued demand also on our own books, coupled with rising financing costs, led to the situation that we have been reporting in ’twenty four as part of our quarterly reporting. The developments of 2024, our financial figures and our current strategy are then a reflection of the above. I will not go through the measures discussed in prior calls and will rather focus on how Canal Stobard ultimately reacted at the end of twenty twenty four. As an immediate measure, Canal Stobard suspended production for several weeks from mid November until the January 2025 across most of our production sites.

According to our data, this has already provided the first boost to the decline of stocks both on our balance sheet and in dealerships. What it has, however, also done is provide a very strong signal to our dealers that instead of drip feeding measures to address the situation, Cloud Stobber has recognized the urgency and is ready to take decisive action. Beyond providing a short term solution, we realized that we needed to adapt the company for what we believe is the most likely development of the market, I. E. A stable, strong, but no longer extraordinary demand.

As a result, we have initiated a wide range of significant measures to both sustainably strengthen the company’s competitiveness in this market environment, but also to eliminate the excesses of the past period that have been sitting in our cost structure and on our balance sheet. In doing that, these measures led to one time and significant negative effects on earnings at the end of fiscal year ’20 ’20 ’4. In 2024, KNUSTABER recorded a group turnover of €1,080,000,000. This is a decline of 24.9% compared to 2023. This development was significantly influenced by the dealers struggling with high levels of stock from the ’23 and ’24 deliveries despite strong customer demand.

Production slowdown in the course of the year could mitigate a worsening of the situation but were insufficient to address it. It was really only a decision in November to stop production for an extended period that started to bear fruit. Prior to that, the company was already experiencing a reluctance from the dealers to purchase the stock that Canal Stobber had on our balance sheet or place material new orders. We also saw the impact in extended overdue receivables from some dealers and solvency issues with some other ones. In this context, it is important to mention that the overall situation in the distribution channel was manageable, and the issues were rather well localized in a minority of dealers, but the situation was becoming uncomfortable given that it was starting to impact the behaviors of the dealers at large.

The measures taken mid November and the steps we have taken since then seem to have allowed us to turn the momentum, which would, however, be visible only in figures of 2025. Nevertheless, the order backlog as of the balance sheet date of December 3124 amounted to €480,000,000, which in the context of the communicated revenue expectations for 2025, represents a solid figure and provides the necessary planning security. Our profitability has been impacted accordingly. To ensure a transparent presentation of the ongoing business, adjusted figures are calculated and reported. In the 2024 financial year, the following individual items, some of which very significant, led to an adjustment to reported EBITDA.

Let me start with the largest effect. Euro 20,000,000 of negative earnings effect is attributable to measures for strategic realignment in the Yandelsbrunn, Modkkers and Hungary locations at the end of the 2024 financial year. These can be split into two groups. $1,900,000 thereof is the write off of development costs for the Knauss e POWER DRIVE project, which is a representation of our strategic refocusing to innovate either in our core areas of competence or in cooperation with suppliers who benefit from such competence or strong synergies in the respective area, as opposed to engage in projects with low or questionable IRR and lose focus on our core business. 18,100,000.0 thereof are the effects of so called empty costs, I.

E. Portion of direct production related costs that are left idle as a result of production stops. In this particular instance, only in relation to the production stop from mid November to mid December twenty twenty four, given its extraordinary and extremely short term character without the ability to effect countermeasures. Please note that we have made no adjustments for any other production stops or slowdowns throughout the rest of the year. The other measures can be summarized as follows: €3,900,000 for both actual costs and provisions for further legal and consulting fees related to the public prosecutor’s investigation of the two prior members of the management board and €1,500,000 of write offs of advanced payments and other asset entries related to certain suppliers connected to the same.

Severance payments of €2,000,000 in total for miss Schurman and mister Speck who left the management board during the year, €5,100,000 write off of a loan receivable in connection with an insolvency of a particular dealer, three point one million euro provision created for personnel reductions, which were then affected in January 25 via an agreement with our trade unions and €800,000,000 in connection with costs related to the renegotiation of our syndicated loan agreement, in this instance related to the consulting services for the independent business review. Ultimately, the above adjustments to our reported figure result in an adjusted EBITDA of EUR 28,400,000.0 and an adjusted EBITDA margin of 2.6%. Now turning to the balance sheet and cash flow. Let me start with our working capital and dive into its individual components. Our overall inventories have decreased slightly.

However, their composition has changed fundamentally with a steep increase in finished goods and a decrease in raw material consumables and supplies. The latter reflects the normalization of the supply chain and availability of parts to finish our products, but also our focus in the last weeks of the year to use the production stop to address the situation with unfinished goods and the various backlogs with spare parts. The former represents the level of inventories that we understood the company could no longer push in front of us. In more concrete terms, our stock of finished goods increased to almost €169,000,000 from the prior year’s almost 91,000,000, while the remainder of the inventories decreased by almost 92,000,000 to reach a level of almost 104,000,000. Trade receivables have decreased materially and amounted to a little over a $6,046,000,000 euro at the end of twenty twenty four.

The decrease from the prior year and also the prior quarter is down to two factors. First, the stop in production has led to less invoicing, and second, the measures that we took at the end of the year, including an acknowledgment of the unsustainable nature of overdue receivables on our balance sheet towards dealers who would no longer be able to digest the volumes they purchased, and we decided to take some of these goods that were booked as sold back on our balance sheet, thus impacting, of course, our revenue and profitability. In terms of trade payables, these have also decreased substantially, largely driven by the stop in production and the resulting stop in delivery since mid November. Our cash flow statement then reflects the developments I have described above. The conclusion of it, however, is that the company’s leverage has materially increased.

Immediately, when the new management came on board, we engaged in proactive discussions with our banks and other partners in order to build a plan that would be supported by our key stakeholders. Having reached an agreement with our consortium banks last week has been the conclusion of these efforts and paves the way for concluding our discussions with other parties, like, for example, the trade credit insurers. Our covenants have been amended for the next several quarters, and for this time, we will not be focused on leverage multiples or equity ratio as before, rather absolute levels of EBITDA and certain other more liquidity focused indicators. The 2024 financial year was undoubtedly an exceptionally unsatisfactory year for Canal Stobber. The excesses of the corona times and the extraordinary demand led to an overreach in production and overstretching of the balance sheet of both Canal Staubert and some of our dealers.

The steps we took to address this weighed on the Group’s key financial figures but were necessary to build a foundation for the future. The scheduled implementation of the defined measures should then have a significant influence on the achievement of our forecast. In November, a comprehensive program was launched to tackle both the short term challenges as well as to strategically realign the company and adapt its structure to the expected market demand. This strategic realignment of the company is intended to position Canal Stobber structurally and financially to succeed. One area of focus has been the overcapacity present in our organizational structure.

This made it necessary to reduce personal capacities, both in production and in administration. In order to keep the number of redundancies as low as possible, all available instruments were initially used, such as early retirements, the termination of temporary workers, and also of fixed term employment contracts. In addition to these measures, however, another around 10% of the workforce in production administration in Endelsbrunn had to be made redundant for operational reasons. Our agreement with the trade unions served as a basis for this step. These measures were announced already in January 2025 so that all employees could have clarity as quickly as possible.

In addition, short time work continues in Yandelsburn for the remaining employees in production until stocks have been reduced in line with the market situation. Measures across our other facilities are of similar magnitude. The other area of costs that we target are other operating expenses. This encompasses items like marketing expense marketing costs, costs for advisory and other similar services, or costs for third party services in logistics and production. When speaking about strategic realignment, our focus is, of course, not only on adjusting capacities and costs.

We continue to perform a review of our product portfolio. Starting this summer with model year 2026, we will also start optimizing the model portfolio in order to eliminate product variance with insufficient demand and focus more on segments with high customer potential. We also want to increase efficiency in production, and one tool for that will be more focused on standardization, as well as the simplification of the chassis portfolio, both of which should also have a positive impact on costs. The company is also conducting negotiations with the suppliers in order to achieve improved purchasing conditions. In addition, cooperation with suppliers whose products or services did not offer sufficient added value for customers was terminated, as well as certain development projects without clear return on investment have been stopped.

What I can however confirm is their existing brands and structure of our product range will remain unaffected by the realignment. As a consequence of the above, I can state that for the financial year 2025, we expect to achieve around EUR 1,000,000,000 in revenues and an adjusted EBITDA margin in the range of 5% to 6.5%. Ladies and gentlemen, Canal Stabbard is a company with a long history. Over decades, we have established ourselves as a leading manufacturer of leisure vehicles. The aim is to steer Knauss Tabard towards a sustainable and profitable future, and the company has all it needs to emerge stronger from this situation.

We have the right products, the right organization, support from our stakeholders and the right attitude. Thank you. And let me now open up the floor to questions.

Conference Moderator: Thank you very much, Mr. Seftic, for your presentation. We will now move on to the q and a session. For a dynamic conversation, we kindly ask you to ask questions in person via audio line. To do so, click on the radio button.

If you have dialed in by phone, please use the key combination star nine followed by star six. And if you do not have the opportunity to speak freely today, you can also place your questions in our chat box. And we already have three hands up. Guilo Pass, Okay. And we will go on to the next one.

Alice Aklin, you should be able to speak

Alice Aklin, Analyst: now. Morning, Mr. Sebsiek. Thanks for the detailed presentation and the opportunity to ask a few questions. Just a couple of topics I’d like to touch on, one starting with the inventories.

If you could maybe talk about what needs to happen from this point on, what kind of targets you guys have and how long it might take for you to get there? And then a second topic, you’ve talked about the work you’ve done or plan to do with your chassis portfolio and your suppliers. Are you planning on eliminating any of your brands? Or is this more just a reduction in the quantities from each of the suppliers? And then perhaps as a third topic, if you could maybe give us some hints about what you’ve mentioned the new absolute covenants that replaced the old ones, if maybe you could give more some some more specific information as to what those look like.

And I’ll leave it for that. Now for that.

Radim Seftik, CFO, Knauss Tabataki: Thank you. Thanks for the questions. Maybe let me start from, from the very end. So when it comes to the covenant levels, I do not believe that we will be sharing the, the the detailed numbers. However, what I what I can confirm is that, we have found a very constructive understanding with our consortium banks, when it comes to adjusting the levels and the requirements put on the company in the credit agreement.

And so we do have headroom in those covenants that corresponds to the updated plan. As I mentioned already, the focus there is on absolute levels of EBITDA as well as certain liquidity driven covenants. And we will only restart working with leverage levels and an equity ratio sometime next year. When it comes to your second question, chassis and suppliers and brands, first of all, we will not eliminate any brands. We will not also not introduce any new ones, but we will not eliminate any old ones.

When it comes to chassis, given that there is a extensive amount of chassis that we are currently working with and that creates levels of complexity in the production, which seemed unnecessary given the also end customer demand, we will make decisions with regards to those chassis and certainly one or more will be eliminated from our current portfolio. Overall supplier optimization is obviously more driven by the product range that we have, which will be streamlined but not to a extreme material extent. And we will be looking also to aim for a certain level of standardization when it comes to our supplies to then be able to allow our suppliers to offer us better supply terms. And your first question around inventories, as I mentioned, our inventories, both on our balance sheet as well as on the balance sheet of some of our dealers, are elevated. We have put together a extensive plan of how we’re going to address that topic.

On one hand, we work very closely with our dealers to understand their levels of inventories, also to the extent that they still are reflected on our balance sheet and our receivables, and we’re working with them to address that situation over time. Equally, we have focused our production in the first twopotentially three quarters of the year to produce only the or sufficient levels of vehicles to be able to allow the market to digest the volume of both newly produced vehicles, as well as the vehicles which are currently already in the distribution chain, both in our on our balance sheet, as well as the balance sheet of our dealers. So the way to address it is to really run our production at such levels that the digestion will happen. And our aim and the planning that we’ve put together should make that possible before the end of the summer this year. I hope that answers your question.

Alice Aklin, Analyst: Yes. Thank you very much. It’s very helpful. Appreciate it.

Radim Seftik, CFO, Knauss Tabataki: Thank you.

Conference Moderator: Thank you, miss Achin. And we will go on with Martha Ford. You should be able to speak now.

Martha Ford, Analyst: Hello. Good morning. I was just wondering about the dealer financing cost because that was identified as a key reason for dealers not being able to to acquire more stock last year. So you discussed last year that this was around six to 8%, which is around double of the historical levels. So what do they look like now?

And is there a risk that these stay elevated given, you know, the new spending packages? And then second, will you have to implement any more discounting programs to to push your stock? Thank you.

Radim Seftik, CFO, Knauss Tabataki: Thanks, Martha. Thanks for the questions. When it comes to the dealer financing costs, I mean, dealer financing costs were one part of the issue. I think that the bigger part of the issue actually was the absolute amount of vehicles that were or the financing line that was then required to fund the vehicles sitting on the balance sheets of the dealerships. When it comes to the costs themselves, one would assume that with the developments of the interest rates from the European Central Bank, there would be a, from our perspective, positive adjustment.

And I can also say that we have had a very, very constructive relationship with the dealer financing banks who have been part of the parties that we’ve had discussions very extensively over the past four months. And many of them have been very supportive of the efforts that we’ve been taking. But ultimately, it really boils down to making sure that the inventories at the dealers are reduced sufficiently not to present too extensive of a load for the dealerships. And in the end, it is a simple multiplication of how much dealer line you use and how much it costs. So both of these factors would need to be taken into account.

When it comes to more discounting, well, first of all, when it comes to our newly produced vehicles that are are produced now against customer orders or dealer orders, we do not offer any material discounts. Of course, we do provide attractive conditions for the stocks which are on our balance sheet. And we have built into our planning also certain assumptions of discounts that may be required on the market to place some of these stocks as well as to work on the market in an environment where possibly some of our competitors are also performing the same activity, I. E. Decreasing their inventories.

But overall, the market is looking very healthy. The customer demand remains strong. The feedback that we get from our dealers and the latest time we actually had a big amount of them here in Endosbrunn was last week because we organized a session for them to walk them through our plan for the model year ’26 as well as a bit of a vision for model year 2027. So the feedback we’re getting from our dealers is also very positive. So overall, while we do assume some level of discounting and certainly attractive conditions for the stocks that sit on our balance sheet, we do believe that the market will eventually digest these volumes at appropriate margins.

Conference Moderator: That’s very helpful. Thank you very much.

Radim Seftik, CFO, Knauss Tabataki: Sure.

Conference Moderator: Thank you, miss Port. And we’ll go on with the person with the phone number ending 456. You should be able to speak now.

Christophe Chappell, Analyst, Adobe HS: Okay. Yes. Sorry. Good morning. Christophe Chappell from Adobe HS.

I got three questions, please. The first one is on the dealer stock financing facility. Usually you give the metric of EUR 500,000,000 during the last year 2024. Is it basically the same amount that the dealer can have access to in 2025? And you give as well usually the utilization rate, which is both 70%.

What are the updated figure if you got one? The second one is, sorry to be very basic, but and you probably answered, but I need the timing. When should we expect the normalization of the situation regarding the inventory at dealership level? And the last one is regarding the registration. I totally understand that 2024 was very dynamic in terms of registration in Europe and in Germany specifically.

But the months of December 2024 and then January, February ’20 ’20 ’5 seems to show a minus in a lower registration versus last year. Could you comment, let’s say, that figure? And how do you see the situation, even if I understand that going forward, let’s say, in the medium run, the demand for the bottom carbon is very strong? Thank you so much.

Radim Seftik, CFO, Knauss Tabataki: Sure. Thank you very much for the questions. Let me start with the dealer stock financing. Before before I dive into it, I I also want to be relatively clear that, you know, as as a new management team, there are certain things that, I guess we want to focus on more and certain things we want to focus a little bit less. So, the dealer financing lines as such are obviously very helpful, but at the same time, they also provide, you know, truly just an approximation of what the situation looks like, out with the dealers.

Because in the end, having looked at the figures before, you would not have necessarily recognized the actual trouble that the dealers were dealing with. And as such, we believe that it could be a bit of a misleading indicator. But to answer your question directly, from the amount of available dealer lines that we had at the end of ’twenty three, at the end of ’twenty four, these are roughly, let’s say, 7% to 8% lower. So you mentioned the number of 500. I think the number was more around four eighty.

So we’re now at around four fifty, with the utilization of that line, having now dropped down to a little over 70%. So on one hand, one could look at that and say, well, utilization has gone down. Clearly, you know, the situation has improved. And that is the case. The situation has improved.

On the other hand, one then needs to really look at the distribution of what is the deadline, what dealer is it being extended to, in what countries, etcetera, etcetera. And without that level of detail, it is truly not an indicator that’s going to tell you very much. But what I can definitely say is that not only the dealers and that partially also answers your other question, not only the dealers, but also the dealer financing banks, I think, see the market as being quite healthy. And we have certainly had very constructive dialogues with them throughout the past few months because, again, they were part of the financing group that was our counterparty in the discussions that we’ve had. To speak about the normalization of the stocks, again, we can hardly speak for the whole market.

We can certainly speak for the assumptions that we have made, and assuming that the the the level of registrations remains roughly similar to what we experienced last year. And our market share also remains roughly in the same ballpark. We have targeted our production levels in such a way that should allow us to, what one would say, normalize the inventories before the end of the summer. Maybe to address what I mean by normalize, obviously, the normalization is also partially an individual indicator for every dealer and every producer. What we’re trying to aim for is the percentage of inventories to our production and to the registrations that we were experiencing before the corona times, because those were truly exceptional.

And so that is that is our target to make sure that we we we hit those levels before, which reflected a normal market, where dealers had sufficient stock, but at the same time, were were still comfortable ordering ordering more stock and planning for the future. When it comes to the registrations, I don’t have these numbers in front of me, unfortunately. But from what I do know is that the numbers need to be looked at in segments, because as far as I do recall from discussions with my colleagues, in reality, there is one or two particular segments that have actually suffered a substantial decline. And as far as I recall, we are actually not necessarily directly exposed to that segment at all. And as such, it is important to look at the individual segments being caravans, motor homes, but also, for example, your Californias and Marco Polos, and then make a judgment on that basis.

That’s point one. Point two, as you know, December, January, February tend to be relatively weak months overall for registrations. And so it is much more important for us the way the market behaves in March, April, May. And that is where, again, here we have to look at our dealers and our partners in the distribution channel, which certainly indicate that things are looking positive. And certainly, our experience also from the Stuttgart fair and other fairs that we attended has been quite successful.

Not only Stuttgart was for us partially about the vehicles and the fare and the visitors, but partially also about having, or engaging truly with our suppliers and also our partners and chassis suppliers, and that’s been a success as well. I hope that answers your question at least a little.

Christophe Chappell, Analyst, Adobe HS: Yeah. Thank you so much, sir. That’s great. Thank you.

Conference Moderator: Sure. Thank you very much. And we have four questions in our chat box from Mr. Gonzales. Would you please provide more detail on how many quarters are you enjoying the waiver and covenants?

How much of the improvement in costs that supports 02/2025 improvement in EBITDA can be extended to 02/1926? In other words, how much of the lower workforce wages can you retain once the sales recovers from 02/1926? Let’s say, if you enjoy around 20,000,000 in 02/2025, which are the permanent savings. Can you comment on the trend of consumers focusing on the entry level motorhomes, more around 50 to 60,000? Is this not pressing margins given the strong competition on this segment?

Or do you foresee more discounts in h one? And it would be helpful if you can provide an idea of what has been the impact in your inventories of the stock from bankrupt dealers and how the available lines for dealers have been modified in this, if this is the case?

Radim Seftik, CFO, Knauss Tabataki: Okay. That’s, that’s a lot of questions. First of all, the the the quarter how many quarters benefit waiver, etcetera? Well, one, we do not benefit from a waiver. Currently, we have renegotiated and and and signed an amendment to our to our credit agreement.

So, this is a a completely or it’s an amended agreement with new wording, that was based on the the planning that we’ve presented to the banks and that’s been validated by, by the independent business review. And and as such, you know, currently, there there is no waiver. We don’t require one. 2026 workforce impact. I think that instead of providing a direct answer, which would be, I guess, too detailed, too difficult and in the end, something that would be forward looking and not something that we would do, let me maybe give you a bit more, of a rationale there.

We have effectively scaled down our fixed costs or our costs for personnel in such a way that allows us to benefit from retaining the key personnel that we have while benefiting from what in Germany is called, which is the short time work. And then once we have in our planning gone through the normalization period in the inventories, we want to obviously move back to full time work with the workers that we currently have. There have clearly been direct cost savings due to the social plan, etcetera. And it is true that most of the costs will only be or the cost benefits will be visible in Q3 and Q4. But other than maybe one thing that could actually help you because I presume you’re asking for your modeling purposes.

The numbers you could probably note down here is that, as you know from the annual report, we reported that the amount of personnel that we’ve had on the 12/31/2024 was 3,953. It is our expectation that the average number of employees that we will have had in the course of the year 2025 could be around 3,550. So that could that should give you some indication of where we should fall in 2025. I think 2026 is a little bit too far ahead to be looking at or commenting on if I’m being honest. Then when it comes to consumer appetite and focus on more entry level products, that is indeed what the market is talking about to be proven in Q1 and Q2 in the actual numbers.

So I think it’s more appropriate than to be commenting on it once we have the benefit of the registrations in that particular period. And we certainly feel like, even if that is confirmed in those numbers, we have the the appropriate products to be able to to address these segments, both the the, let’s say, more entry segment as well as because the bifurcation then goes both ways. And and we also feel like, the the the there is a certain level of strong demand at the more premium end where where we’re also quite quite well well positioned. Discounts in in h one. I think I’ve I’ve commented on it a little bit where when it comes to the production that we’re currently producing on order from our dealers, and by the way, that that is a very strategic decision that has been taken by women and the team is that going forward, because that was what we wanted to do before, but we diverted from it in the past couple of years, going forward, we will produce on order.

So we will avoid to the extent not necessary for operational purposes or for you know, fair vehicles or press vehicles, we will produce on order. So these vehicles that we’re currently producing on order do not benefit from any material discounts. When it comes to the vehicles that we have on stock, there are obviously attractive conditions being offered. And then whether these discounts will need to be extended or not will obviously depend on also the end customer demand and the behavior of our competition, which is something we cannot really comment on because we don’t benefit from more information about our competitors than necessarily you do. And then last, inventories and then dealer financing due to bankruptcies.

I think there, again, probably more qualitative answer, but hopefully one that gives you enough insight. As I mentioned in the presentation, we have had quite extensive multiple tens of millions of euros of overdue receivables on our balance sheet in Q4. That was not sustainable. And we also understood, and that was also discussed with our auditor, that is not something that we can then receive their approval on. And we also felt like it’s really important to take advantage of 2024 or use it as an opportunity to really have a clean start and reflect the reality also on our balance sheet.

So what we did was many of the vehicles that we knew were with troubled dealers, we took on our balance sheet. So the numbers you see at the December 2024, to a large extent, already reflect certain vehicles that we have taken on our balance sheet from the troubled dealers to alleviate the difficulties. At the same time, one has to also admit that there are still vehicles that we will be taking on our balance sheet. That relates to the couple of dealers that have announced their insolvency at the end of the year. Insolvency in Germany tends to run for several months before the vehicles then would be required for us to take over.

And so some of them, we will be getting on our balance sheet at the end of this sorry, we’re already in April 1, so at the end of last quarter, as well as in the coming months. And that will but I would not think that this would be extremely material. Of course, it will be a recognizable impact in our in our numbers, but but but manageable. When it comes to dealer financing lines availability, again, there we do have to mention that there has been a relative stability. There were a couple of dealer financing banks that have looked at the market in a little bit more of a, let’s say, negative way.

But most of the dealer financing banks that we work with have provided their full support and the lines for our dealers also thanks to the measures that we’ve taken in terms of alleviating some of the pressures and agreeing payment plans with some of them, etcetera. Also thanks to those measures, those lines remain available for for most of our dealers.

Conference Moderator: Thank you very much for your questions, mister Gonzalez. And thank you very much for your answers, mister Seftik. We have two more hands up from mister Koretsky. You should be able to speak now.

Mr. Koretsky, Analyst: Hi there. Thanks a lot for the opportunity to ask questions. But first of all, congratulations on your presentation, Mr. Sevchik. I must say, I wish that more German small caps had presentators like yours.

So enough of the flowers. Let me ask a few questions, kind of top line approach. So the first one, I really didn’t find any specific guidance in your report apart from the adjusted EBITDA margin. I think it was 5% to 6.5%. However, on MarketScreener, there is a consensus that you should have a PE back, going back to 15.9% already in 25%, which would convert to the EPS going from like minus EUR 5.7 to roughly EUR 3 per share already, which given your presentation sounds exaggerating to me.

Can you comment on that? And also, I mean, the analysts, some of them at least, are pretty bullish seeing your stock at like double of the current level again, while the press is still extremely negative, like Management Magazine or especially referring to the CTS fair and the trends that have been on display there. And also, especially on Carbon Market ’24, where they basically, they say that the young stock is still going down in a progressive way, up to four year old cars. And that especially renters are giving their stock to the market and prices are dropping progressively. So basically, I see the bullish analysts and the negative press.

Can you resolve that conflict? Thanks a lot.

Radim Seftik, CFO, Knauss Tabataki: Thank you very much. Thank you for the questions. First of all, on the praise, let me just be very clear. This is a result of teamwork of a lot of people that have contributed to the presentation. Maybe I didn’t just read it, but at the same time, in the end, I just read it.

So I think the praise goes to the whole team. Second, when it comes to your question with regards to top line EPS, etcetera, that is not something that we’re guiding towards. And so I cannot and do not wish to comment on what the expectations of the market are when it comes to our adjusted net income or earnings per share, etcetera. I am certainly more than ready to answer questions how we got to our planning and the guidance that we’ve provided, which again is based on the planning that has also been subject to validation in the independent business review. And it is also based on a lot of the measures that have been taken at the end of last year, as well as that we continue to take this year to be able to deliver on the plan.

And it is a combination of, I think that the two biggest elements there clearly will be the the the costs in, in other operating expenses where we expect a very substantial substantial saving. And from the numbers that we that we had there, let me just try to to find it. In in the total, the operate other operating costs, and that could be helpful also for the other listeners to the call. The potential saving that we expect is over €45,000,000, in 2025 compared to 2024, partially due to marketing expenses, partially due to advisory expenses, etcetera. The savings seems to be very material, but in the end, it’s also down to the fact that in 2024, the numbers were extremely high due to very many extraordinary costs that we had to take also due to all the investigations and all the other advisory services that we had to use.

And then the other element that is obviously important are personal costs, which I think I answered in one of my prior questions. When it comes to the stock price, again, that is not something I can necessarily comment on and whether the analysts are bullish or not. I guess partial also depends on how the management team delivers on on what we’re now indicating and presenting. And, at the end of the day, all that we can focus on is making sure that, that we take the business as it is, take the market environment as it comes to us, and make the most of it and make sure that we deliver to what we’re presenting to you right now. Whether the press likes it or doesn’t like it is something that I can honestly tell you in November and December, we had our own thoughts about it, and we were certainly trying to understand where some of these things are coming from and how we can address them and how we could potentially, let’s say, amend the messages towards what we perceived as being the truth.

But in reality, right now, we’re truly focused on just making sure that we do the best for the business, for its stakeholders, employees, customers, and then that will then define whether the press and the analysts and the investors are happy with it or not.

Conference Moderator: Okay. Does this answer your questions, Mr. Koletsky?

Mr. Koretsky, Analyst: Yes, not fully. Could you at least provide kind of a range when do you expect to be profitable again? And secondly, given that pricing environment with your stock, how much have you already written it down? And do you think that needs to be written down further or not? I

Radim Seftik, CFO, Knauss Tabataki: mean, I hope you do understand that I’m not trying to be impolite on the opposite. But your questions are very detailed and they I have certain levels of limitations I can actually disclose without getting then all of us in trouble. In reality, we have taken quite a bit of impairments and value adjustments in 2024 to reflect the values of some of our stock on the balance sheet. We have also prepared our planning carefully in order to reflect the market reality that we see out there. And so as such, it is our plan and to address your profitability question, it is our plan as indicated that on the adjusted EBITDA level, we should be profitable for the full year 2025.

We’re not splitting it in quarters. Maybe one thing to indicate to everyone without wanting to do too much guiding, but Q1 will be a quarter where one should take into account several effects. Effect number one is given that we stopped production in January for almost a whole month, obviously, the level of revenue will be somewhat impacted by that. Second, it is important to mention that when it comes to our working capital, the agreement with the banks has been made only last week. And as you can appreciate, the credit insurers, the dealer financing banks, the suppliers, everybody else were impatiently waiting or maybe patiently, for for that for that outcome.

And let’s say the the levels of of payables that we have as well as the levels of, of receivables, etcetera, will will then move accordingly. So Q1, we would like to manage expectations carefully because the effects of the negotiations that we’ve had in Q1 will mostly be seen or we certainly aim to negotiate further in order to be able to see them in Q2 and going forward.

Mr. Koretsky, Analyst: Thanks a lot for the answers.

Conference Moderator: Sure. Thank you very much for your questions, Mr. Goratsky. And we have a follow-up question from Mr. Aklin.

You should be able to speak now.

Alice Aklin, Analyst: Yes. So hopefully these are some easy ones. I just have two follow-up questions on how we might look at twenty twenty five, one tying into discussion about depreciation. Should we expect something for the full year more on the level of 2024 at 38,000,000 or something closer to the previous year around 28,000,000? And then, I’d also be interested in hearing, with regards to the stoppage of work in January, what the adjustment amount might be for that, considering what the adjustment you talked about was for last year.

And that should do it for me. Thank you very much.

Radim Seftik, CFO, Knauss Tabataki: Do you mind repeating the second one? Sorry, for the for the January impact.

Alice Aklin, Analyst: Yeah. So, you had an adjustment for the production stoppage last year, but that spilled over into January. I’d be interested in hearing any sort of thoughts on what that adjustment might be for this year with regards to the January stoppage?

Radim Seftik, CFO, Knauss Tabataki: Right. So maybe let me answer the first one. Our depreciation also includes certain elements of, let’s say, write offs or depreciation of certain assets that we had, which may have been related to some of the activities subject to certain investigations, as well as which we believe are not worth the book value that they’ve been held on. So our depreciation going forward should revert more towards what you saw in the prior years, although slightly higher clearly due to the investment CapEx that the company has made in the past years. But still, there are some one off effects in the depreciation that you see in 2024, which will not be repeated.

When it comes to the January effect, we the planning that we’ve put together, and as you know, we’re guiding towards adjusted EBITDA. That adjusted EBITDA is then post these effects. But to be honest, we do not plan to do any level of adjustments to the same level of materiality that you see in 2024, in 2025 for these one off costs because as mentioned, there are many reasons why we decided to normalize. One of them was it was a strategic decision that really, you know, it was a bit of a shot of adrenaline also to our dealers to indicate that we really want to tackle these issues. Secondly, it was extremely short term without our ability to actually react and prepare any countermeasures.

And so if we do an adjustment for the January, empty costs, let’s call it that, it would be to a much lower level of materiality than you see in 2024.

Alice Aklin, Analyst: Okay. That’s great stuff. Again, thank you very much for the open presentation today.

Radim Seftik, CFO, Knauss Tabataki: Thank you.

Conference Moderator: Thank you, Mr. Klim. And with this, we come to the end of today’s earnings call. Thank you everyone for joining and you’ve shown interest in the Knauss Tabataki. Should further questions arise at a later time, please feel free to contact investor relations.

A big thank you also to you, missus Sivcik, to for your transparent presentation and the time you took to answer the questions. I wish you all a lovely and sunny Tuesday. And with this, I hand over again to mister Sevcik for some final remarks.

Radim Seftik, CFO, Knauss Tabataki: Thank you. Thank you everyone for attending. Thank you for the patience that you’ve shown. We have intentionally been relatively under the radar because the negotiations with all our partners required us to, one, focus on that and secondly, as one of the questions alluded to, we felt like the market is more hungry for negative news than necessarily positive And that given that a lot of this negative news was actually not reflective of reality, was then being hurtful to our efforts. So thanks for your patience.

Thanks for attending. We will keep running this business and we look forward to speaking to you next time.

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