FTAI Aviation at Deutsche Bank Forum: Strategic Growth in Engine Power

On Wednesday, 03 September 2025, FTAI Aviation (NASDAQ:FTAI) presented its strategic vision at the Deutsche Bank 15th Annual Aviation Forum 2025. CEO Joe Adams outlined the company’s unique approach in the aftermarket engine power sector, while addressing both opportunities and challenges. The company is focusing on expanding its production capabilities and market share, despite potential headwinds from OEM production rates.

Key Takeaways

• FTAI Aviation aims to capture a 25% market share of the $22 billion addressable market in engine maintenance.
• The company plans to produce 750 engine modules this year, with a target of 1,000 by 2026.
• Acquisition of Pacific Aerodynamic is expected to save $15 million annually.
• Estimated $750 million in free cash flow for the year, with a debt to EBITDA ratio under three times.
• FTAI anticipates entering the LEAP engine market around 2028-2029.

Financial Results

FTAI Aviation reported strong financial metrics, highlighting:

• Estimated $750 million in free cash flow for the year.
• Debt to EBITDA ratio is maintained under three times.
• Market share has grown from 5% to 9% over the past year, with a goal of reaching 25%.

Operational Updates

The company is rapidly expanding its operational capabilities:

• Production goal of 750 engine modules this year, increasing to 1,000 by 2026.
• The Rome facility will contribute 100 modules this year.
• Expansion includes a 150,000 square foot facility in Montreal.

Future Outlook

FTAI Aviation is setting ambitious targets for the future:

• Plans for another SCI partnership next year, with an investment of approximately $4 billion per partnership.
• Geographic expansion is under consideration, potentially adding facilities in Southeast Asia or the Middle East.
• Longevity of CFM56 engines extended from 25 to 30 years, delaying fleet retirements.

Q&A Highlights

During the Q&A session, key points included:

• Investments in LEAP and GTF engine spaces expected around 2028-2029.
• Capital allocation priorities are achieving a strong BB rating, growth initiatives, and potential stock buybacks by the end of the fourth quarter.

In conclusion, FTAI Aviation’s strategic initiatives position it for significant growth in the aftermarket engine power sector. For more details, refer to the full transcript below.

Full transcript - Deutsche Bank 15th Annual Aviation Forum 2025:

Unidentified speaker: I would like to introduce Joe Adams, CEO of F TY, and thank you everyone for joining us today. So Joe, I think most investors here are familiar with your business. But for those that are not, could you give us a brief description of your business and talk about how you’re different from traditional lessors and how you’re different from traditional MROs?

Joe Adams, CEO, F TY: Yes. Well, thank you very much. Thanks again for having us this year. It’s a great conference, and happy to be here. Just to give you a recap, Eftai Aviation, our mission is to be the largest provider of aftermarket engine power for the commercial aviation industry with two specific engines in focus, the engines that fly the workhorse of the industry, the current generation seven thirty seven NGs and the a three twenty seals, which is the largest by 14,000 airplanes flying around the world every day.

And so those two engines, we provide a full service product to the industry where we effectively manage the entire asset class including the maintenance activity. And what we’ve done is we’ve created a vertically integrated company that owns and maintains those airplanes. And what we provide to the end user, the customer, the airline is a combination of time and money savings as well as a great deal of flexibility. So effectively, of us as the outsourced engine maintenance provider for airlines around the world who don’t either want to be in that business or probably shouldn’t be in that business. And our business model is essentially to go acquire run out engines.

So we own the engine, then we rebuild those engines in our own facilities, facilities we own in Montreal, and Rome. And then we go to market and offer those either for outright sale, for an exchange, for a run out engine, or for lease. And therefore, the customer eliminates all the hassles and time requirements and expense of managing that job visit, and they get a price certain at the time when they do that engine exchange. So it’s a unique model in that what you mentioned is lessors and MROs. What we’ve done is combine the two functions together and that and the key to our business is that we both own the asset and maintain the asset, which is different.

And so so it’s created a a real success in terms of, you know, winning people over because I’d like to say very few times does anything good happen in a shop visit. It’s usually something either longer delay or higher cost or both. And therefore, we can solve problems for the industry in what is an increasingly expensive and complex process. And so that’s kind of in a nutshell what we do.

Unidentified speaker: Yeah. I mean, it’s a fascinating business model. And what’s also fascinating is that you’ve been evolving. Your business has been evolving and the latest, I guess, business that you’ve introduced is SCI. And I guess, for those of us for those investors that are not familiar with what SCI is, if you could give an overview of that business and, you know, how many aircraft you have in there currently?

Are you on track to deploy $4,000,000,000 of capital, which is equivalent to about two fifty aircraft? And what progress you’ve made so far?

Joe Adams, CEO, F TY: Sure. So the background of this was a little over a year ago. We realized that oftentimes we’re involved in end of lease discussions where there’s a return compensation difference between an airline and a lessor, where an airline can be bankrupt and doesn’t have the money to rebuild the engine. And we became a problem solver. And the problem solution ends up with a more well defined engine exchange to meet the needs of the customer and the lease term.

So you end up lowering the capital investment in that asset, which reduces the risk and increases the return. So we started thinking about that and said, if we can do that, why don’t we create our own leasing company for aircraft and we can convey those benefits to our own investor base? We’d also then manage that partnership. We’d have an ownership interest in that. And we would also lock in all of those engine maintenance events as engine exchanges with Eftai Aviation.

So there’s a tremendous amount of benefits. The first partnership we formed, our goal was to invest roughly about $4,000,000,000 this year. And by doing that, invest and own about two fifty aircraft. And as of July 31, we had either closed or under LOI 145. So we’re ahead of the, you know, the pace that we would had hoped for.

And we expect by the end of this year to be very close, if not on target, for investing in owning two fifty aircraft in this first partnership. And it’s been a great it was an ambitious target when we set off doing it, but it’s a huge market. As there, as I was saying, there’s fourteen thousand seven thirty seven and A320 aircraft current generation flying around the world. Half of those are owned by lessors and the other half are owned by airlines. And we often provide a value add product to the lease by buying or acquiring assets that have near term engine events.

And I talk about engines coming due for a performance restoration within the next year or two years of that lease. Because we have inventory, we own our own maintenance facilities, we can do that very, very efficiently. And so that’s where we’re seeing a lot of opportunities for investing. And the goal is if we’re successful this year both in terms of return and investment program is to do another one next year and do one every year after that. So ultimately, you roll that forward, that would make us most likely the largest owner of current generation narrow bodies in the world, which also just confers a lot of other benefits on, you know, the ability to be a meaningful counterparty to airlines, to be able to predict and and schedule our engine maintenance events, be a big buyer of material.

It’s a scale business and definitely the bigger you get, the better you get.

Unidentified speaker: So would the next SEI partnership, I guess next year, would that also be for

Joe Adams, CEO, F TY: I think that that seems like a good number that we’ve, you know, been able to deploy smartly without, you know, without being, you know, overly aggressive or, you know, making sure that we’re we’re doing good deals. And as I said to the team, the key to raising the next partnership is make sure that the returns are good on the first partnership. So we most likely will make a decision on going forward that in the fourth quarter of this year. Right now the indications are the returns are great and the investment pace is very good. So as I said today, it looks likely that we will, but until you get there, can’t start the next one until you finish the first one.

Unidentified speaker: Yes. I I could tell you know, some of the more skeptical investors would ask me, you know, how are they gonna achieve the return hurdle in such a tight aircraft market where you might have to pay up a little bit to get your aircraft. So could you talk about how you’re achieving the return hurdle? I mean, I would assume it’s probably through maintenance, right?

Joe Adams, CEO, F TY: It’s a lot of main in my prior life, was involved with Aircastle. And my observation was most of the problems around aircraft leasing industry occurred around the engine. It’s always an engine, you know, problem here and there. It’s a cost overrun. And Mhmm.

You know, you thought it was gonna cost 2,000,000 and it cost you 8,000,000. Those things happen. And because we have our own inventory, our own capability, and vertically integrated, you know, we can manage that very, very efficiently. And we also did a sale leaseback with an airline that had, you know, five engines that were timed out today, you know, when we did the deal. So they had airplanes that were grounded.

And there’s not a lot of engines around in the industry, so we were one of the fewest, maybe the only only party that could provide immediate engines to that customer. And a lot of it is, it really comes down in many cases that people want to avoid the shop visit. It could be a module exchange that you have an engine that is timed out because the low pressure turbine has no hours and cycles on it, we could do a module swap and have that engine flying in forty eight hours as compared to taking that engine and sending it into an MRO shop where it takes you thirty days just to get inducted. So those kinds of solutions are basically, you know, that’s what we’ve built as a machine that can actually have prepositioned inventory available, which solves problems and creates higher returns. And as I said also, the the other key is if you have a five year lease on an airplane, and you have a two and a half year engine event in the middle of that, the typical approach would be the airline would take that engine and build it for five years.

Well, then you’ve put a lot of money into the engine, and then you have to sell that engine at the end of five years with two and a half years on it, which is not the easiest thing to monetize. What we can do is deliver an engine that has two and a half years on it so you have a lower investment, less residual value risk, which means you get a higher return and have lower risk, which in my history of investing is always the box you’re trying to get into, which is higher return, lower risk. So it’s very customized, and it’s because we own 500 engines and three maintenance facilities and have invested hundreds of millions of dollars in parts inventory. We have PMA products available. Repair We businesses we bought and really have gone line by line item down the cost of a shop visit to be the most efficient in the world at that.

Our goal is to be the lowest cost producer of aftermarket power for that engine bar none.

Unidentified speaker: So you know when I used to tell investors to pitch the business to investors, a lot of them would say, well you know it’s green time, as you mentioned green time utilization, why can’t other MROs a copy of what you’re doing and do you green time utilization? Mean isn’t that essentially being done by you know other airline you know tech ops and stuff right? So how how would you answer that?

Joe Adams, CEO, F TY: Well, I mean, we didn’t invent module swaps. It was created as part of the design of that engine. Mhmm. And if you look at a Delta, American, United, they do that internally. And so they will they will take modules of fan, a core, and LPT and recombine those so that instead of you know, if you have 2,500 cycles on a low pressure turbine or 5,000 cycles, you don’t overbuild that and just waste those cycles.

You recombine it to to be able to be the waste nothing people. So they created that because that’s the way the engine would was designed. But prior to us sort of launching the module factory, you couldn’t buy a low pressure turbine in the market. If you put an ad on Google and said, does anyone have an LPT with this many cycles? You get nothing.

You know, there was nobody offering that to other airlines. And there’s 600 owners of CFM56 engines in the world. Only five of them have the capability to do it themselves. So that 595 is our market opportunity to take a product that, you know, saves money, creates efficiency, and basically offer it to anybody. So that’s all we did.

It was just, you know, no one had sort of, you know, optimized and and then offered that as an independent party to the rest of the world.

Unidentified speaker: So you’re in essentially doing what, you know, let’s say, Delta Tech, you know, TechOps would do, but you’re doing it for external clients?

Joe Adams, CEO, F TY: Yes. Okay. Yes.

Unidentified speaker: Got it. And, you know, you’re rapidly ramping up production in Montreal. Your, you know, European facility is contributing to production. Could you go over your production goals and what does that imply in terms of your market share and where you want to get to? Know you want get to 25% market share.

So like your production goal, how does that get to where you want to?

Joe Adams, CEO, F TY: Yes. So this year, our goal is to produce seven fifty modules across the three facilities. Rome is a contributor this year for about 100 of those, which we didn’t have last year. So that’s brand new, we expect to grow that we hope to grow that next year to 200 modules. And the goal in 2026 is to produce around 1,000 modules, so about a 33% growth in production.

We have the physical capacity to do that. It’s really training technicians and getting them productive that is part that takes some time, and we’re working really hard on that. So we’ve ramped up the production capacity very significantly now. Have three different operations, I think we have the physical capacity to double that number over the next few years. So to get to a 25% market share, we essentially have the capacity today, physical capacity to do that.

We are currently at about 9% of the market. If I talk about addressable market spend on V2500s and CFM56 is about $22,000,000,000 a year in maintenance spend. And so we’re at about a 9% market share, up from 5% a year ago. And we think the 25 is achievable, if not higher than that. I mean, there’s no scientific reason why it would stop there, particularly if we keep, you know, growing the SCI because a 100% of that business is committed.

Unidentified speaker: And to get to something above 25%, you will probably need to just buy another facility or something.

Joe Adams, CEO, F TY: Right? The existing facilities or buy another one. Would say geographically, if you looked at where we would probably think about adding another facility would be Southeast Asia or Middle East potentially, those markets are growing extremely fast. We have a lot of customers out there. You don’t have I mean, shipping an engine isn’t that expensive, but having a, you know, another operation in that in that part of the world might make sense for us.

So but but we don’t need to do that. I think we, you know, as I said, we’re gonna double the capacity in Rome. We’re expanding. We have a basement in Montreal that is essentially empty. We have a 150,000 square feet below grade that we could use.

So we haven’t really pushed hard on on the the existing facilities, which we could also do. Found it. So what we did is we essentially, we bought three former airline engine shops that had no business. It was Montreal was Air Canada. Miami was originally Pan Am, and Rome was Alitalia.

And these were once great engine shops that the airline had gone bankrupt and they had good tooling and they had a well trained workforce. We bought them for way below replacement cost and we’re uniquely able to bring our inventory into those shops immediately.

Unidentified speaker: Yeah. So talking about acquisitions, you’ve made a lot of interesting acquisitions, buying facilities, buying businesses. The most recent one you bought was Pacific Aerodynamic, I guess, the repair specialist. So could you talk about your you know, how does that business benefit you and, you know, just your acquisition strategy broadly? And I guess, what are you looking for in your next, you know, acquisition target?

Joe Adams, CEO, F TY: Yes. And so if you remember, I’ve been talking about piece part repairs for almost two years now. And it’s another area of vertical integration because when you do a performance restoration on an engine, you take it down to piece part level. And a lot of those parts can be reused if you repair them. So we spent over $50,000,000 last year to third party vendors on repairs.

And one of them we’re spending a lot of money on is compressor blades. Because compressor blades is where if you ingest a rock or debris, the first thing it’s gonna hit is that compressor blade. It’s before the combustor. So you have a lot of damage and it’s a very thin blade, very light. So we started looking around.

Was like, who does that? How can we get in that business? And we found a company in Southern California that was essentially an entrepreneur who had built a company and his son was running it. And they had a specialized technology that they patented and had a great repair process. But they only had a handful of customers.

And so we looked at it and said, well, instead of spending $300,000 to repair a set of blades, we could if we owned it, we would pay 250,000 to, you know, the mechanics and the people in the shop. So we’d save $50,000 and we would, if we can run 300 shop visits through that facility, we’d save $15,000,000 a year, which is essentially what we paid for the whole company. You pay for it every year. So that’s the kind of math that we see on the repair side because of the it’s a good business, high margins, intellectual property, and we can deliver a substantial amount of volume. So we’re looking at other we can also take that team and say there’s other parts in that engine which they also could apply that technology to do repairs also.

So there’s a lot of growth in that space. And it’s, again, it’s another barrier to entry. It’s another way we can reduce our cost structure further and differentiate our product because we have capability that’s really unique.

Unidentified speaker: And so you’ve been I guess the module exchange business has been up and running for a couple of years. Could you just talk about the customer reception? What kind of general commentary are you getting from them? And I’m assuming your customers are all becoming repeat customers, right?

Joe Adams, CEO, F TY: That’s a good assumption. They are. And it’s funny because in most cases when you go propose a fan swap or a low pressure turbine swap, people didn’t know that that was possible. And so when we introduced it, you had a customer like Lion Air, Volatea, and their their sort of engineering team was what we have to induct that engine into a shop. And then that engine is gonna sit there for potentially three, four months waiting, you know, for that process to end.

And in the meantime, you have people walking around an engine finding things that they, you know, could fix if they had, you know. So we went to them and said, you know, you can do this in the field, and you can do it in one to two days. And they were like that. You can’t be you’re kidding me. Right?

And it’s like, no. And so we started doing it, and people loved it. I mean, it saves them literally it probably saved Lion Air millions and millions of dollars, not having to ship those all those engines in to swap the low pressure turbine. So it’s one of those things where, again, we’re sort of we’re problem solving, and the and the sort of our pitch to the customer is avoid the shop visit. You know?

Okay. That’s the end goal. That should be your goal, our goal, and we’ll help you do it. And so they people love it.

Unidentified speaker: People love it. Okay. And I guess, you know, turning to PMA, you know, I’m assuming you probably have no update. But if you could talk about it seems like the module exchange is a very popular, you know, business that airlines like. And I I assume the same for PMA in terms of acceptance.

But I think in terms of PMA acceptance, I think the lessors are a little, you know, less willing. I’m just wondering in this tight market, has that changed at all? What’s your

Joe Adams, CEO, F TY: Yeah. Feel very good about it. Well, first of all, the timing, Chromoly did indicate to people they thought October approval. As I say to people today, no update is a good update, right? Means it’s possible it could come sooner than that.

And things are on track. So it’s very much near the end of the process on the next part, which is great. In terms of receptivity, you know, what I always do is I talk to people not about the CFM56 because we don’t have the parts approved yet. Talk about the CF6 80 engine Mhmm. Which is the engine where we really had a lot of experience putting the hot section parts in.

That’s the engine that flies seven forty sevens and seven sixty sevens. And we found that that product had universal acceptance across all airlines around the world. And then when we went to sell those engines, it also had universal acceptance. And so while people will tell you that, oh, I don’t put PMA in my engine, I don’t, you know, that’s not my process. Almost everybody in the in the business owns engines with PMA in them because everyone accepts that engine.

And it’s market share on PMA is not a static number. It tends to go up as platforms age. So, you know, I look at it and say, well, we had this great experience with the CF six eighty. What would be different about the CFM 56 engine that would make it different than that engine? And I have never gotten anybody giving me a good answer other than they say it’s bigger.

And it’s like, I’m aware of that. You know, it’s 10 times the size. So so I don’t, you know, profess, you know, to predict, but I think that the history indicate that if the products are good and perform well, the acceptance will be there.

Unidentified speaker: And I think in the past couple of quarters, we’ve seen OEM production rates improve. How does that impact the value in your view, value and demand for midlife aircraft? And I guess as a result, demand for CFM56 and does that affect the value of that?

Joe Adams, CEO, F TY: Yes. So I don’t see any impact. There’s such a deficit that has been established of deliveries over the last few years it’s gonna take a long time, a, for that to catch up. But also, you know, aircraft don’t they don’t stop flying for technological reasons. They stop flying for economic reasons.

So when I go visit airlines and customers, I say, know, what are you thinking about? And would you put in an order for new technology and when? And they say, well, I can’t get one until 02/1930. And then if it is, it’s gonna be potentially north of 60,000,000 And I love my NG at $14,000,000, and I know exactly what the maintenance cost is gonna be. The reliability is tremendous.

One airline told me they need 20% more new new technology to fly the same schedule as the old technology. So it to me, it’s the economics that drive it, and it’s been true with the seven five seven and the seven six seven. You had new competitors that didn’t displace those airplanes. Because if the operators are making money, they’re gonna keep flying it. And people have consistently underestimated the useful remaining life of of those platforms.

And I think the seven three seven eight hundred and a three twenty c o are tremendous moneymakers for airlines. So and then you have cargo market, which is another life extension. But as we mentioned in the last call, we you know, when talking to airlines, they all tell us that 30 is the new 25. You know? And if you thought an, you know, an airplane was gonna fly for twenty five years, now you’re you’re saying thirty.

And who knows? You know, it still takes it’s gonna take years to replace what’s been what has not been delivered.

Unidentified speaker: Yeah. And I guess, is it 40% of CFN 56 have never gone

Joe Adams, CEO, F TY: through first shop visit. Yeah. And one of the things about that engine is it’s so reliable and dependable. It stays on wing for a long time, which makes it very, very efficient to operate because maintenance cost is one of the things that will drive, operators to retire the asset. And as we introduce more and more ways to reduce the engine spend, we will extend the longevity of that fleet as well.

We had one operator tell us before they were doing module swaps, they expected to retire their fleet by 2026, and they extended it to 2030, which is what you’d love to hear because it’s like, we’re we’re making it more cost effective to operate that. Mhmm. And then, therefore, they’re gonna fly it longer.

Ashley McCarthy, Avionics, JPMorgan, Asset Management, JPMorgan Asset Management: Yeah.

Unidentified speaker: I mean, I’ve heard people say t f m 56 will, you know, go down in history as one of the as the best engine

Joe Adams, CEO, F TY: It it’s ever. I I would agree with that. Yeah.

Unidentified speaker: Well, I’m a

Joe Adams, CEO, F TY: bit biased, but I

Unidentified speaker: For that. But let me take a question, audience question, if there’s any.

Joe Adams, CEO, F TY: Am I following? There’s a big announcement yesterday about bunch of private equity guys taking over a leasing company. Any implications for your business? No. I think that the I mean, was really to me, it was a transfer transfer from public markets to private markets, and we did that a year ago with SCI.

I mean, I think that the public markets asset based leasing companies are always hard to, you know, and I was talking about that with Hillary, you know, the history. Took Aircastle public in 2005 and it traded to three times book and then five people came in and copied the business model and then it traded at one and a quarter times book. And it’s like, there’s nothing you can do that you can’t really argue that you you have a unique operation. And so in the end of the day, you’re buying a bunch of metal. So I think it’s really more that.

It’s private credit is huge influx of capital, a huge amount of money once we invest in private credit. Public markets don’t really love, you know, the the, you know, I have to buy $5,000,000,000 and finance it every year model. And and at the end of the day, it’s a bunch of assets. So it’s kinda like, you know, to me, that’s that’s really what I took from that is, you know, is probably a better way to organize capital for that sector than in the public markets. And, you know, you have, you know, Japanese investors and private credit investors and and you’ve got, you know, Middle Eastern investors coming.

So it’s gonna gravitate. The money will go to whoever has the lowest cost of capital for those assets, I think. And we’re doing that as well. We’ve got a bunch of private credit on the side that is buying those aircraft, and then we’re managing it and getting all the engine exchange business. It’s great.

Unidentified speaker: Any other questions from the audience? I do have a question on product, a new product. Is the LEAP your next most, you know, logical product to come into the mix? And and when would that happen if so?

Joe Adams, CEO, F TY: Most likely. It’s gonna be a huge sense get

Unidentified speaker: we’re how

Joe Adams, CEO, F TY: at that point, I would expect of it will be investable for us. And it is a huge market. It’s the same architecture as the CFM56. So I very much expect around 2028, 2029, we’ll be investing in that space and the GTF as well.

Unidentified speaker: Oh, GTF as well. But GTF is not modular, right?

Joe Adams, CEO, F TY: It’s not, but it’s just a different process. It’s a higher cost. The V2500 shop visit cost is a higher cost than the CFM56, But it’s not necessarily because of the architecture. It’s just because of the structure of the aftermarket, the way they set it up. So the idea is the same, that you have an opportunity to save money for the owner by doing the maintenance more efficiently.

And if you spend your entire life focusing on nothing other than that maintenance event, you should be better than anybody else.

Unidentified speaker: Okay. Got it. And then oh, we have an audience question.

Ashley McCarthy, Avionics, JPMorgan, Asset Management, JPMorgan Asset Management: Hi there. Ashley McCarthy, Avionics, JPMorgan, Asset Management. You mentioned that you will have an interest in the GTF eventually. What’s your view on the introduction of the advantage engine? And is there a danger that will get into a DAC engine versus subsequent variance type of situation value wise?

Joe Adams, CEO, F TY: Well, I think the Advantage SALT was designed to solve a lot of the problems that existed with harsh environments with that engine operating before the powder metal problem came up. As I understand, it’s I don’t have a lot of data on that, how that’s performing yet, but Pratt seems to think it’s going to answer a lot of those questions on durability, which is great. I mean, I think ultimately all of the kinks and the new technology will ultimately be worked out. I’m just saying from an investment point of view, I would wait for the advantage and not buy the older model because at some point in time, you’re to have an older model which people are going look at and say, I don’t want that. I want the new one.

And who’s going to pay for the upgrade? So I think from our experience, it pays to wait until you know the answers.

Unidentified speaker: Any other audience questions? Okay. I think we’re well actually I do have one more question. Now that you’re with the SEI, you expect to generate significant cash flow. Could you just talk about your capital allocation strategy?

I think you’ve mentioned maybe returning some capital to shareholders, what your priorities are?

Joe Adams, CEO, F TY: Yes. So our estimate for the year is, and we’re on track to produce about $750,000,000 of free cash flow this year. And we have had as a priority to obtain a strong BB rating from all agencies. And we hope our numbers would argue that we should be there because we’re under three times debt to total EBITDA. And so we hope that happens in the next couple of months.

That’s number one. Number two is growth initiatives. And I mentioned piece part repair and maintenance capacity investments also areas that are adjacent to the engine that are connected to the engine are things that we’re looking at as well. So we like to look at all avenues for growth for acquisition or organic. And then thirdly, I would based on the size of the acquisitions that I expect we would be looking at, we will have excess above that.

And at that point, we will look to most likely stock buybacks, which would most likely happen around the end of the fourth quarter of this year, I Okay.

Unidentified speaker: That’s great. K. Sounds good. I think we’re out of time. Thank you so much, Joe.

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