AKA Brands at TD Cowen Conference: Strategic Growth and Expansion

Published 03/06/2025, 15:24
AKA Brands at TD Cowen Conference: Strategic Growth and Expansion

On Tuesday, 03 June 2025, AKA Brands Holding Corp (NYSE:AKA) presented its strategic vision at the TD Cowen 9th Annual Future of the Consumer Conference. Led by CEO Karen Long, the discussion highlighted the company’s robust growth in the US market, unique merchandising model, and challenges like tariff impacts. The company is focusing on sustainable growth through strategic retail expansion and supply chain diversification.

Key Takeaways

  • AKA Brands reported a 14% increase in US sales last quarter, marking the sixth consecutive quarter of growth.
  • The company is expanding its physical retail presence with Princess Polly, aiming for 13 stores by year-end.
  • AKA Brands is diversifying its supply chain out of China, targeting completion by Q4.
  • The company’s active customer base grew by 8%, surpassing 4 million.
  • All brands within the portfolio are profitable and cash-generating.

Financial Results

US Growth

  • US sales rose 14% in Q1, continuing a trend of growth for six quarters.
  • Australian sales grew by 6% in Q1, though Q2 may see a decline due to prior promotions.

Active Customers

  • The active customer count increased by 8% over the past year, now exceeding 4 million.

Profitability

  • All brands are currently profitable and generating cash, with potential for margin expansion.

Operational Updates

Retail Expansion

  • Princess Polly has eight stores, with plans to open five more, reaching 13 by year-end.
  • Approximately 30% of store customers are new to the brand.

Wholesale Partnerships

  • A successful partnership with Nordstrom has introduced AKA Brands to new customers.
  • Petal & Pup is actively marketed in all Nordstrom locations for the next four to six weeks.

Supply Chain

  • The company is diversifying its supply chain away from China, aiming for significant progress by Q4.

Marketing Strategy

  • Emphasis on influencer marketing across about 20 platforms, with marketing spend at 12% of sales.

Future Outlook

Growth Strategy

  • Continued investment in marketing and expansion across online, wholesale, and physical retail channels.
  • Focus on the test-and-repeat model to minimize merchandising risk and enhance efficiency.

Margin Improvement

  • Targeting a low teens EBITDA percentage as the company scales.

Back to School

  • Exploring opportunities in the back-to-school market, supported by an increased physical presence.

Q&A Highlights

Consumer Trends

  • Strong consumer demand for on-trend, accessibly priced products.
  • Stable average order value (AOV) and average unit retail (AUR).

Marketing Spend

  • Focus on ROI-driven channels and influencer marketing, with spending around 12% of sales.

Tariffs

  • Addressing tariff impacts through supply chain diversification, vendor negotiations, and price adjustments.

Conclusion

For a deeper dive into AKA Brands’ strategic plans and financial performance, readers are encouraged to refer to the full transcript below.

Full transcript - TD Cowen 9th Annual Future of the Consumer Conference:

Jonah, Analyst, TD Cowen: Analyst at TD Cowen, and I have the pleasure of hosting AKA Brands CEO, Karen Long. Just quick introduction on the brands. AKA Brands maintains a portfolio of global fashion brands such as Princess Polly and Petal and Pop. Through these brands, AKA reaches a broad audience of next generation consumers who seek fashion inspiration on social media and primarily shop online. So with that, thank you for joining us today.

And maybe for those who are less familiar with AKA Platform, could you just talk about maybe core competencies of your brands and what really differentiate your brands from others in the market?

Karen Long, CEO, AKA Brands: Yeah. Thanks, Jonah, and and appreciate being here today, looking forward to talking to you all. Yeah. So at at AKA, we’re a portfolio of fashion brands for the next generation of consumers. Today, we’ve got four brands.

On the women’s side, we’ve Princess Polly and Petal and Pup. And on the men’s side, we predominantly go to market with Culture Kings and Minimal. You know, within those brands, really, I would say what differentiates us for others is particularly on the merchandising side, you know, predominantly all of the product is exclusive to our brands. And so that allows us to really lean lean into the test and repeat merchandising model that that we that we use, and that allows us to bring new styles, new fashion to to our consumers on a weekly basis and allowing us with a really short lead time from a supply chain perspective just to be very much on trend from a from a fashion perspective. I would say the second thing, a big differentiator for us is just on the marketing side and really showing up wherever our consumer, you know, that that Gen Z, Millennium consumer, wherever they’re streaming, wherever they’re scrolling, wherever they’re shopping, you know, we go to market very much with an influencer led marketing approach.

But for us, you know, not mega influencers, very much smaller influencers that are much more authentic to to that consumer, that’s a big differentiation for us. And then maybe just I’ll just touch on each of the brands. So Princess Polly focused on the teen, you know, college consumer and bring to them, you know, on trend fashion at an accessible price point and doing it in a sustainable way. Pedal and pop, slightly older consumer in that twenty five to forty year old space and really bringing elevated styles at an accessible price point. And then Culture Kings on the men’s side, just really, really different brand.

You know, in this, we we would talk about is that collision of sports, music, and fashion, bringing that to life in in a retail way through through very, very differentiated products. And they go to market with a mix of about 50% of the product is their own first party owned brands that they’ve developed and kind of across eight to 10 brands are are key for them. And then third party product, think of it the new era as the the footwear, things like that, but even a lot of that product is is exclusive to them. And then minimal and very much forward on the fashion side, but very much accessible price point.

Jonah, Analyst, TD Cowen: And maybe you can also touch on the uniqueness of you have the Australian market advantage and kind of taking the read throughs from that market to The US.

Karen Long, CEO, AKA Brands: Yeah. Sure. It’s been really interesting. So three of the brands started in Australia. Princess Polly, Petal, and Culture Kings, we’re we’re bringing them here and scaling them in The US.

US market is obviously, you know, 17 times larger than the Australian market, so we’re we’re very early on that journey in in scaling the brands. And at this stage, about 70% of our business is in The US. But interestingly, with that kind of, you know, being Australia market being being off season, we get to introduce products there first, you know, and essentially test it in that market. If it’s doing well, then we can really lean into it for the next season and and bring it to The US. And we see that particularly powerful on the women’s brands.

You know, you you get to see, I would say, kind of, you know, a little bit now fashion is coming from the East and kind of across where probably in the past maybe more from Europe and and, you know, to to it heading West. And again, that just allows us with our test and repeat model to be very much on trend from a fashion perspective. And with that, right, you get, you know, better margins, better inventory management, and obviously more effective marketing as well.

Jonah, Analyst, TD Cowen: Yep. Your US sales grew 14% last quarter, which is very impressive. Could you touch on the key drivers and how you’re thinking about the market in the near term as well as over the medium term?

Karen Long, CEO, AKA Brands: Sure. Yeah. You know, really happy with The US growth, and that’s the sixth consecutive quarter of US growth. You know, 14% in The US on, you know, on top of, you know, the last couple of quarters were were in the, you know, the low twenties. So really just seeing great response to the brand as as we as we bring them and scale them into into The US.

And I would say, look, that’s a combination of, I would say, with our test and repeat model, having really on trend fashion. And obviously, look, for for us all, when the product is good, the customers really respond and and and the growth rate is certainly there. And I think then, you know, leaning into our strategy of just putting our product wherever our customers are. And so recently, we’ve we’ve done a lot on, you know, taking our our brands beyond just being online businesses. We’ve now opened stores for the Princess Polly brand in The US.

We’ve we’ve eight open at this stage and then leaning into wholesale opportunities as well. And for us, just, you know, from a strategy perspective, we’re gonna put our product where our, you know, where our customers are if we feel it’s brand elevating and has the right economics from a wholesale perspective, and I would say, you know, just seeing really good success with that strategy.

Jonah, Analyst, TD Cowen: And any particular trends you’re seeing in terms of the consumer? I mean, your consumers are a little bit younger, but just given the the macro dynamics here, any notable trends you’ve seen?

Karen Long, CEO, AKA Brands: You know, think, yeah, we we obviously have a little bit younger consumer. I think for for us, consumer stills, you know, it seems is is certainly there, particularly when the product is good, you know, and for us really leaning into that on trend accessible price point, they’re certainly there. You know, we haven’t seen, you know, any particular changes from an AOV, AUR trending down or or or anything like that for at the moment. I would say just continue to be really happy with the growth we’re seeing in The US. And look, I think the brands are back to growth now in Australia, and it’s taken us a little bit of time to get them there, but finally getting Culture Kings on that test repeat model has has has led to that as well.

Jonah, Analyst, TD Cowen: Great. And then you mentioned this already a little bit, but digging a little deeper, the wholesale partnership, Princess Polly and Pedal and Pop are now in Nordstrom. What are what has been the reception like? Are those customers different from your your original sort of core customer set? Any early learnings there, and do you anticipate additional wholesale partnership going forward?

Karen Long, CEO, AKA Brands: Sure. Yeah. Look. I think we’re we’re delighted with the with the partnership that we’ve developed with Nordstrom. It’s it’s still early on it.

You know, we put product from Petal and Pup on Nordstrom about March, just on on Nordstrom.com. So really strong response. We did an in store test with Nordstrom last September, October, and then we went chain wide for springsummer this year with both Princess Polly as you mentioned and Petal and Pup, and just seeing really good response. You know, from what we’ve been able to measure from an online perspective, about 95% of the customers we’re getting are new to the brands. So, you know, again, going back to that strategy of just putting our brands where our customers are, increasing our TAM, introducing us to new customers, so really happy with what we’re seeing there.

I would say from a a merchandising perspective, what’s really interesting at Petal and Pup is the Nordstrom customer is buying across more more categories, and we’re string seeing stronger response in some of the categories, which we have probably less penetration on petalandpup.com. So I think, you know, again, for us, you know, giving us this feeling that we certainly have category expansion opportunities with that brand as well. But really happy with the success, you know, there. We’ve got some in store marketing at all of the all of the Nordstrom’s for Petal and Pop going on at the moment for the next four to six weeks. So, yeah, I think just really happy with that.

Jonah, Analyst, TD Cowen: Yeah. And moving on to the store side of things, obviously, started digital. You’re now expanding the footprint. We visited the Soho store. It looks really great.

Do you what’s your sort of long term goal for the brand in terms of the store count? And then what are sort of early learnings that you’ve had? Do you see a lift in the market you enter? And also similar, any synergies you see between stores and digital? Yeah.

Karen Long, CEO, AKA Brands: Yeah. I think thanks. So, you know, we’ve had stores for the Culture Kings brand in Australia. You know, we opened the store for them in Vegas in November 22 and seen great success there, and then just started opening stores for Princess Polly. And the Princess Polly brand is about half our portfolio, you know, so very strong brand in The US, has has a lot of brand awareness.

But we’re seeing great success from the stores. We we’ve now eight open. We expect to be at 13 by the end of the year for for Princess Polly. And, you know, I would say just, you know, doing a great job of introducing new customers to the brand. You know, from what we’ve seen, about 30% of the customers that are buying from us in stores are new to the brand.

Also just seeing tremendous, I I would say response from their existing customers just being able to go in and touch and feel the product and, you know, we we see them, you know, going in in groups with their friends and just real delight on their faces as they walk into the store is just really showing for us there is a huge opportunity for us to to keep, you know, opening stores for the brand. And from an online perspective, we’re also seeing a nice lift. We’ve been able to measure as we’ve opened stores a lift to the online business within a radius of, you know, five to 10 miles of of each of the stores. So for us, I would say all going back and and just validating that strategy that we have of, you know, being where our customers are, whether that’s online, you know, stores or wholesale partnerships and and continuing to lean into that.

Jonah, Analyst, TD Cowen: Could you just touch on how you’re leveraging stores as a marketing channel as well? Are you hosting events and sort of how are you thinking about that dynamic?

Karen Long, CEO, AKA Brands: Sure. Yeah. I think, look, stores are certainly for us more than just look, they’re they’re obviously very we’re very focused on sales and EBITDA, and all of our stores are are, you know, four wall profitable, and for us kind of building in a model with a with a, you know, two year or less or return on investment on the stores. So really happy from that perspective, but also just they’re great to introduce new customers and for for marketing activations. I would say for us, the Culture Kings brand is certainly furthest ahead and best at leveraging the store as a marketing space and and bringing to life events that they do in stores online and just feeding that, know, content to the customer.

The Princess Polly brand is is, you know, figuring it out for their customers. They’re they’re doing a lot of what they call sip and shops, so bringing in influencers kind of after, you know, later in the day for the store towards the time it’s closing and just having events there. And for us, you know, they’re very authentic events and, you know, those micro influencers that they’re using, they will put that content online continuing to introduce the brand to to more and more customers. And when we when we like the content, we’ll also put marketing dollars behind it to amplify it, and again, just kind of, you know, really talking to that customer wherever they are.

Jonah, Analyst, TD Cowen: Yeah. And your active customer count grew about 8% on a trailing twelve months basis last quarter. What are strategies around increasing both acquisition and retention? Is one more important to you versus the other? Or sort of how are you thinking about that active customer number as you continue to grow your brands?

Karen Long, CEO, AKA Brands: Sure. Yeah. You know, great to see kind of active customers up again, that that 8%. And for us now, we’re over 4,000,000 active customers, and that’s on a on a trailing twelve month basis. So just really strong strong results there.

I think, look, for us, we are very, very early on bringing these brands to The US and scaling them in in The US. So we we feel there’s tremendous runway for us to continue to bring new customers to the brand. So we are very focused on that, I would say a combination of, you know, the teams are probably working across 20 different marketing platforms at any one time and, you know, within those continuing to evolve and change the content to be more on point for the different marketing platforms. I would say, you know, Culture Kings has probably done the best job from a brand marketing traditional marketing activations perspective. You know, Princess Polly has done a great job on TikTok and TikTok shops, and the the other brands are are jumping on that now.

You know, Petal and Pup is probably the furthest along on Pinterest and user generated content. So for us, it’s interesting that each of the brands kind of can play a different role in in the marketing space. And as they learn and evolve those, each of the other brands can lean in there as well.

Jonah, Analyst, TD Cowen: And could you talk about a little bit your core customer, maybe on the Petal and Pup and Princess Polly side, sort of what their typical engagement is like? Do they shop you know, how frequently do they shop with you? How how much do they spend, and do they, you know, sort of shop across categories? We’re focused on addresses. Any sort of characteristics of your core customer.

Karen Long, CEO, AKA Brands: Sure. Yeah. I think, you know, at both brands, we’ve got really engaged customers. Right? And I I would say, you know, there are interestingly from a from, I would say, our content, our marketing, they’re really engaging with us on a daily basis.

Right? And I think particularly with our model that test and repeat model, right, each of those brands will introduce probably a hundred new styles each week. Right? And you’re on maybe only going a hundred or 200 units deep on a style, but with that you see how strong the response is and buy back into it or not. But, you know, that newness that you’re that you’re bringing each week is just a super way to activate the customers.

Right? It’s probably our most heavily trafficked area and and they start their journey with us every week looking at that that new styles and and new product. You know, we’ve some customers that will will purchase for from us in that newness on a weekly basis. It’s interesting in the stores, we are we’re trying to figure out that model from a store perspective. You know?

You certainly can’t introduce a hundred new styles into a store every week, but we are bringing newness. And it’s interesting our customers coming into stores certainly are very loyal, frequent customers. They are asking for that newness in stores every week. So, you know, we’re we’re we’re trying to figure that out. It’s it’s certainly an opportunity for us.

Yeah. Would say, look, we’ve just got a a very I would say our existing customers very, very engaged with the product, and they certainly feel being on trend is so important for them and dressing them for all the different events they have. We’re we’re fortunate that the brands have that breadth of product that that they can do that. I think, you know, we certainly an opportunity across, you know, as we bring in new customers to the brand, the different marketing channels that we we we bring them in, you know, whether that’s wholesale stores or online. I think, know, people are finding us now in different ways.

And interestingly, I would say where the brands probably started off predominantly really strong on the dresses side, I think no opportunities in different categories and kind of as we look to expand all the brands.

Jonah, Analyst, TD Cowen: And and on marketing, last quarter, you spent about 12% of sales on marketing front. What is the right level of spend in your opinion, and which channels are you most focused on to drive sort of high highest ROI?

Karen Long, CEO, AKA Brands: Sure. Yeah. As I as I talked about, we predominantly, you know, very much focused on influencer marketing and and kind of bringing the brands to life there. Look. I I think we certainly see the marketing is working for us at the moment and particularly look strong when the product is right.

Mhmm. Right? Great product, great pricing, you know, I would say all the marketing teams are think their marketing is great. You know, we’re very fortunate there. I think, you know, we continue to, you know, lean into different channels from a marketing perspective.

You know, we we certainly see newer channels coming on these days that we have to test into, and we continue to do that probably, like I said, across 20 channels at this stage. Look. We we do feel we’re just very early on these brands’ life in The US. There’s tremendous opportunity for them, and we’re gonna continue to, you know, invest in marketing, lean into marketing. You know, I think over time, there are certainly efficiencies to to to get there as as we continue to build kind of core to new customers and opening stores.

But at this stage, I think we feel we’re we’re at a good level, and and we’ll continue to kind of run at that at that at that pace.

Jonah, Analyst, TD Cowen: Yep. Obviously, the environment remains very dynamic. How are you sort of planning for the rest of the year? What is your assumption built in, you know, in your business?

Karen Long, CEO, AKA Brands: Yeah. I think, look, it is very dynamic. We, you know, I think we’re we’re really happy with the, you know, performance we saw in in in in the first quarter of 10% overall, 14% in The US and and Australia back to growth. You know, I think we’re continuing to plan for a very dynamic environment. We’re very fortunate with our short lead times on on products.

So we’re buying product now for August, so our ability to kind of flex to be on trend, but also flex quantities as we see changes in the market is is very flexible, and we’re very fortunate to have that model. So look, we’re just gonna continue to keep an eye on what’s going on. We see our consumer every day. We see how they’re we see how they’re reacting to product, and we’ll be as as nimble as as we need to be. And

Jonah, Analyst, TD Cowen: one of the favorite topics is tariffs.

Karen Long, CEO, AKA Brands: Love talking

Jonah, Analyst, TD Cowen: about sort of your exposure like? And it seems like you’ve got a lot of agility in your supply chain to navigate, but what are sort of the mitigation measures that you have in place? And overall, how are you looking at the landscape?

Karen Long, CEO, AKA Brands: Yeah. I think as as you said, right, you know, very dynamic. There’s there’s a lot going on. I think, look, for us, we are very, very fortunate that, as I mentioned, right right now, we’re buying product for August. Right?

And we don’t have long commitments with with vendors, so we’re able to flex and and move very quickly. You know, we’ve we’ve started, I would say, since kind of last November working on, you know, moving some of our supply chain out of China. You know, we’ve have teams been been working on it now for the last what what is that? Nearly eight eight months and have made a lot of progress there. We continue to to feel like we will be predominantly, you know, out of China by by q four, and we’re we’re on pace for that at the moment and and making good progress.

You know, besides that, we also worked very quickly with our vendors to get discounts from from them to certainly address the first two rounds of tariffs and felt we were in a really good spot there and happy with where we are. We also took some price action, you know, not kind of across the whole assortment, but in targeted places where we we felt we had opportunity. So for us, really kind of, you know, tackling the the kind of what’s going on on on that side across those three different areas, you know, making good progress and feel with the model we have and and the teams that we have being so dynamic, we will certainly be kind of where we need to be.

Jonah, Analyst, TD Cowen: Mhmm. You mentioned Australia turned to growth. What are you projecting in terms of the the growth in in the that region overall? And any also consumer health wise, are you seeing any sort of cautiousness there or similar to

Karen Long, CEO, AKA Brands: Look. We’re delighted Australia is back to growth. Right? It’s it’s taken us some time, you know, but really happy with the 6% in q one. And and look, I would say some of that coming from the macro environment there, but but also us getting Culture Kings onto that test and repeat model.

You know, we’ve seen our Princess Polly and Petal and Papa, our women’s brands, stronger performance in Australia and and and growing for a while now. It’s taken us time to get Culture Kings on on that test and repeat model, you know, now that they are for that own product that they have, know, bringing in new new product that’s fresh, you know, great price point and kind of getting past that older inventory that they have. You know, we certainly feel would be growth there for for this year and and continuing. I think, you know, it’ll be it may be slightly negative in q two, just we’ve got some pretty significant promotions to that we’re lapping.

Jonah, Analyst, TD Cowen: Mhmm.

Karen Long, CEO, AKA Brands: But I would say, you know, feeling really good about the progress that the team have made there, you know, and we brought in some new people early this year. They’ve really hit the ground running, and I think, you know, we are in general back to growth in in Australia, which is great.

Jonah, Analyst, TD Cowen: Yeah. And on promotion front, obviously, it’s part of retail, but what are you seeing in terms of promotions, and how are you thinking about it in the back half as well?

Karen Long, CEO, AKA Brands: Yeah. Look. I I think for us, obviously, kind of how we go to market with that really new product that we’re bringing in each week, being on trend and talking to our customers wherever they are. You know, it allows us to be very nimble when it comes to promotions. I I would say we certainly feel the, you know, the customer is is there for our product, you know, particularly we’re seeing strength as as we saw in q one with The US up 14%.

So, you know, we’re gonna continue to lean into that opportunity. You know, we feel good about the the guidance that we have out there for the year. You know, absent all this tariff noise, we’ve certainly be we would certainly feel we’d be up in gross margins year over year, but I think some of that’s gonna kind of cloud the progress that we’ve made. But in general, I would say feeling really good about the opportunity we have with these brands in The US.

Jonah, Analyst, TD Cowen: And assuming back to school is sort of a fun event for the brands given the the younger consumer base, how are you positioned this year versus last year? Is there any sort of difference in how you’re allocating merchandise or I just would love your thoughts.

Karen Long, CEO, AKA Brands: Yeah. I think probably the big way we’re we’re different for us is just having more stores now than than we had last year. So, you know, we’ll continue with our store opening. So and, you know, I think that’s just a great ability for us to kind of flex into that that season that seasonal product. You know, I think Nordstrom, obviously, full chain, not as important from a back to school perspective, But I think events around back to school like homecoming, things like that, they’re they’re big moments for for that brand.

So I think that that they’ll be great from that perspective. And I think, look, as we continue to scale these brands in The US, we are moving into to different categories of products. So I think, you know, back to school, you know, starting to become more important for us as we kind of flex into basics and more sweats and and hoodies and tees and and brands like Poly. So I think lots of opportunity for us there.

Jonah, Analyst, TD Cowen: And on the margin front, what is the long term target in terms of your margin profile? And maybe you can touch on the major puts and takes that we can think about in potential areas of, you know, leverage and efficiency going forward.

Karen Long, CEO, AKA Brands: Yeah. Look. I think we’ve got huge opportunities with with the with these brands. I think we’re very fortunate that even today, you know, our brands being predominantly direct to consumer, all of the brands make money. All of the brands generate cash.

So I think we’re very fortunate that way. I think, look, as we continue to scale these brands, I think we feel there’s opportunities across all the lines of the p and l. Mhmm. You know, we’ve done a lot of work in the last couple of years on, you know, the, you know, the the variable costs inside in all of our selling expenses, whether that’s shipping costs or our fulfillment centers. You know, we’ve done great work on balancing our mix of air freight and sea to, you know, improve gross margins.

You know, I think as we continue to scale these brands, I think, you know, we we certainly feel that this we should be in that kind of, you know, I would say low teens from an EBITDA perspective, and I think, you know, we’ll see benefits across the p and l as we think about that.

Jonah, Analyst, TD Cowen: And, Les, two questions for you. First one is, what do you think is most misunderstood by investors about AKA at this point? And, you know, looking three to five years out, what are you most excited about?

Karen Long, CEO, AKA Brands: Yeah. I think probably for me, two things. I think one is is just the probably the opportunities for these brands in The US. Mhmm. Right?

We’re we’re very early on. You know, we we did bring three brands from Australia. The US is now 60% of our business, and like you said, up 14% in q one. I think there’s just tremendous growth opportunities for for all of these brands across online, across wholesale, across stores, and we’re gonna continue to lean into that. And I think the other thing is just the power of the test and repeat model.

You know? I I think we’re very fortunate that, you know, with us, except for that kind of small that third party product we have at Culture Kings, all of the product we have is pretty much exclusive to us. Mhmm. So we can run that test and repeat model across it, and and that does really allow you to, you know, take much less merchandising risk than other brands take, you know, much stronger gross margins, much less markdown risk, and with it much more efficient marketing because you’re selling product that’s on trend for that customer. Mhmm.

And I think, look, you know, we’ll obviously have some, you know, I think some of the the benefits will be hidden with the tariffs this year and at the moment, but I think the strength of that model is is still not fully understood, and I think we’re just gonna continue to lean into it as as we go to market. Yeah.

Jonah, Analyst, TD Cowen: Well, thank you so much for your time. We’re very excited to see the progress you’ve made, and excited for additional openings as well. And thank you everyone for joining us, and please value us in the Excel survey. I’m supposed to say.

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