Earnings call transcript: Acme United Q3 2025 misses earnings expectations

Acme United Corporation reported its third-quarter earnings for 2025, revealing a miss in both earnings per share (EPS) and revenue compared to forecasts. The company posted an EPS of $0.46, falling short of the expected $0.53, marking a negative surprise of 13.21%. Revenue came in at $49.06 million, underperforming the forecast of $50.71 million, resulting in a 3.25% shortfall. In response, Acme United’s stock price saw a slight decline of 0.68% to $38.45, nearing its 52-week low of $34.35. According to InvestingPro, the company maintains a "GOOD" overall financial health score, with particularly strong marks in profitability and cash flow management. The company has also maintained dividend payments for 22 consecutive years, demonstrating consistent shareholder returns.

Want deeper insights? InvestingPro offers 5 additional key tips about Acme United’s financial strength and market position.

Key Takeaways

• Acme United’s Q3 2025 EPS and revenue both missed forecasts.
• Stock price decreased by 0.68% following the earnings release.
• First aid product sales increased by 9%, showing strong growth.
• Gross margins remained stable between 38% and 39%.
• The company is expanding production capabilities and exploring new markets.

Company Performance

In Q3 2025, Acme United reported a modest 2% increase in net revenues to $49 million compared to the same period last year. However, net income dropped to $1.9 million from $2.2 million in 2024, and EPS decreased to $0.46 from $0.54. Despite these declines, the company maintained stable gross margins and continued to grow its first aid product segment, which saw a 9% sales increase. The company’s gross profit margin stands at 39.37%, while maintaining a healthy return on equity of 9% and return on invested capital of 8%.

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Financial Highlights

• Revenue: $49 million, up 2% year-over-year.
• Earnings per share: $0.46, down from $0.54 in 2024.
• Net income: $1.9 million, down from $2.2 million in 2024.
• Gross margins: Stabilized between 38% and 39%.
• Nine-month sales: $149 million, a slight increase from $148.5 million in 2024.

Earnings vs. Forecast

Acme United’s Q3 2025 results fell short of expectations, with EPS missing the forecast by 13.21% and revenue by 3.25%. This performance contrasts with previous quarters, where the company typically met or exceeded estimates, highlighting a challenging period for Acme United.

Market Reaction

Following the earnings announcement, Acme United’s stock price experienced a minor decline of 0.68%, closing at $38.45. This places the stock closer to its 52-week low of $34.35 and highlights investor concerns over the missed earnings and revenue forecasts.

Outlook & Guidance

Looking ahead, Acme United anticipates consistent growth in its first aid business and gradual improvement in Westcott sales. The company is focused on expanding its manufacturing capabilities, with the Spill Magic facility expected to be fully operational by March 2026. Acme United also aims to increase its production capacity from $15 million to $25 million. The company’s strong financial position is evidenced by its current ratio of 4.32 and moderate debt-to-equity ratio of 0.3, providing ample flexibility for these expansion plans. Based on InvestingPro’s Fair Value analysis, the stock currently appears fairly valued in the market.

Executive Commentary

CEO Walter C. Johnsen highlighted the impact of tariffs on retail operations, stating, "When we had 145% tariffs last April, they [retailers] panicked. They had empty shelves." He also emphasized the company’s innovation efforts, noting, "We introduced a next generation in September of this year. That next generation had a lot of interest."

Risks and Challenges

• Tariff uncertainties continue to pose significant challenges, affecting retailer promotions and orders.
• Increased effective tax rate from 8% to 22% could pressure future earnings.
• Market volatility and supply chain disruptions remain potential risks.
• Competition in the medical product market could impact growth prospects.

Q&A

During the earnings call, analysts inquired about the company’s strategies to mitigate tariff impacts and manage inventory. Acme United’s leadership discussed their plans to shift production locations and implement robotic automation to enhance efficiency. Additionally, the introduction of an automated refill and reorder system was highlighted as a key innovation to drive future growth.

Full transcript - Acme United Corp (ACU) Q3 2025:

Conference Operator: Okay. Welcome to the Acme United Corporation third quarter 2025 financial results conference call. At this time, I’d like to turn the call over to Walter Johnsen, Chairman and CEO. Please go ahead, sir.

Walter C. Johnsen, Chairman and CEO, Acme United Corporation: Good morning.

Paul Driscoll, Chief Financial Officer, Acme United Corporation: Good morning.

Walter C. Johnsen, Chairman and CEO, Acme United Corporation: Welcome to the third quarter 2025 earnings conference call for Acme United Corporation. I am Walter C. Johnsen, Chairman and CEO. With me is Paul Driscoll, our Chief Financial Officer, who will first read a safe harbor statement. Paul?

Paul Driscoll, Chief Financial Officer, Acme United Corporation: Paul?

Walter C. Johnsen, Chairman and CEO, Acme United Corporation: Forward-looking statements in this conference call, including without limitation, statements related to the company’s plans, strategies, objectives, expectations, intentions, and adequacy of capital and other resources are made pursuant to the safe harbor provisions of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Investors are cautioned that such forward-looking statements involve risks and uncertainties, including, among others, those arising as a result of a challenging global macroeconomic environment characterized by continued high inflation, high interest rates, and the imposition of new tariffs or changes in existing tariff rates. In addition, we have experienced supply chain disruptions, and we may experience these disruptions in the future. We are also subject to additional risks and uncertainties as described in our periodic filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission and in our current earnings release. Thank you, Paul.

Acme United had net revenues of $49 million in the third quarter of 2025 compared to $48 million in 2024. Our net income was $1.9 million compared to $2.2 million last year. Earnings per share were $0.46 compared to $0.54 in 2024. Our sales in the third quarter increased 2%. Sales of first aid products, which represent about two-thirds of our corporate revenues, increased 9%. We had strong e-commerce sales, consistent demand from our industrial customer base, and solid recurring revenues of refills of components for our first aid kits. However, our sales of our Westcott cutting tools continued to be reduced by the cancellation of back-to-school and retail promotions due to the confusion and uncertainty when large tariffs were announced earlier this year.

As you can imagine, buyers at that time were entirely focused on reducing the impact of the tariff costs and seeking alternative sourcing locations rather than new business. We are seeing stability in the market today with an increase in promotional activity, which we expect in the coming quarters. Our gross margins have also started to stabilize at about 38% to 39%. We increased selling prices modestly to offset tariffs and successfully negotiated cost reductions with our suppliers. We have been shifting production locations to reduce tariffs and increasing our production in the United States. This takes time and is a tremendous amount of effort, but we are making progress. Our operating income grew consistently with revenues during the quarter. As you may remember, we purchased a 78,000-square-foot manufacturing facility on 12 acres with room for expansion in July for $6.1 million.

The new plant will produce our Spill Magic cleanup products for bodily fluids, blood, and spills and comes online in the first quarter of 2026. We have been investing in our MedNap facility in Brooksville, Florida, to increase production of alcohol prep pads, PZK wipes, triple antibiotic packets, and lens wipes. Sales of these domestically produced items are increasing. Concurrently, we have also been expensing the costs of tightening our GMP controls and improving FDA compliance training in preparation for possibly entering the U.S. hospital and military markets in a larger way. As we look into the coming quarters, we see consistent growth in our first aid business and a gradual improvement in Westcott sales. We continue to strengthen our balance sheet and to increase and to generate and review acquisition opportunities. I will now turn the call to Paul.

Conference Operator: Corporation’s net sales for the third quarter were $49.1 million compared to $48.2 million in 2024, an increase of 2%. Sales for the nine months ended September 30, 2025, were $149 million compared to $148.5 million in the same period in 2024. Net sales in the U.S. segment increased 1% in the third quarter. Sales of first aid and medical products were strong. However, sales of school and office products were lower, mainly due to the cancellation of customer orders as a result of tariff uncertainty. U.S. sales declined 1% for the nine months ended September 30. Net sales in Europe increased 6% in local currency for the quarter, mainly due to higher sales of school and office products into the e-commerce channel. Sales for the nine months decreased 2%.

Net sales in local currency for Canada increased 7% in the quarter and 16% for the year to date, mainly due to higher sales of first aid products. The gross margin was 39.1% in the third quarter of 2025 compared to 38.5% in 2024. The gross margin was 39.8% for the first nine months of 2025 compared to 39.4% in 2024. SG&A expenses for the third quarter of 2025 were $16.2 million, or 33% of sales, compared with $15.6 million, or 33% of sales for the same period of 2024. SG&A expenses for the first nine months of 2025 were $47 million, or 32% of sales, compared with $47 million, or 31% of sales in 2024. Operating profit in the third quarter of 2025 increased 3% compared to the third quarter in 2024.

Net income for the third quarter of 2025 was $1.9 million, or $0.46 per diluted share, compared to a net income of $2.2 million, or $0.54 per diluted share for the same period of 2024, a decrease of 14% in net income and 15% in earnings per share. Despite the increase in operating profit, net income in the quarter declined due to higher tax expense. In the third quarter of 2024, we recorded a large tax benefit related to the exercising of stock options. This resulted in an effective tax rate of 8% in last year’s third quarter compared to 22% this year. Net income for the first nine months ended September 30, 2025, and 2024 was $8.3 million, or $2.03 per diluted share. The company’s bank debt, less cash, on September 30, 2025, was $23 million compared to $27 million on September 30, 2024.

During the 12-month period, we paid $2.3 million in dividends and generated $11 million in free cash flow before the $6 million purchase of our new facility in Tennessee.

Walter C. Johnsen, Chairman and CEO, Acme United Corporation: Thank you, Paul. I will now open the call to questions.

Conference Operator: Ladies and gentlemen, if you would like to ask a question, please press star one on your telephone keypad. A confirmation tone will indicate your line is in the question queue. You may press star two if you would like to remove your question from the queue. For participants using speaker equipment, it may be necessary to pick up your headset before pressing star keys. Our first question comes from the line of Jim Marrone with Singular Research. Please proceed.

Jim Marrone, Analyst, Singular Research: Yeah, great. Thank you, gentlemen. It sounds like you had a pretty decent quarter. Again, kind of the same story, just managing your inventory to address these challenges and headwinds. I’m just trying to get a better sense of your underlying business. When you say that the sales of school and office products were lower due to the cancellation of customer orders as a result of tariff uncertainty, are you suggesting a company like, say, Walmart, is canceling your cutting tool products because of the uncertainty of tariffs that their customers are feeling and so they have less disposable cash? I’m just trying to get a better sense of that.

Walter C. Johnsen, Chairman and CEO, Acme United Corporation: That’s a very insightful question, Jim. Let’s be really clear. When customers like Walmart, Home Depot, you can name any one of the large retailers, were faced with 145% tariffs last April, they panicked. They had empty shelves.

Jim Marrone, Analyst, Singular Research: Based on all their general products and the higher costs on their side, they may not have the budget for additional spending. Is that what you’re suggesting?

Walter C. Johnsen, Chairman and CEO, Acme United Corporation: Okay. All right. With 145% tariffs, they stopped buying. It was cheaper not to bring something in.

Jim Marrone, Analyst, Singular Research: Oh, I see. All right. Okay.

Walter C. Johnsen, Chairman and CEO, Acme United Corporation: Take it on themselves.

Jim Marrone, Analyst, Singular Research: Okay. What?

Walter C. Johnsen, Chairman and CEO, Acme United Corporation: Yeah. Jim, what they did was they stopped buying anything that they could avoid buying. They canceled every promotion, not just for Acme United, for retailers across the country.

Jim Marrone, Analyst, Singular Research: Right.

Walter C. Johnsen, Chairman and CEO, Acme United Corporation: What they did was they scrambled. They modeled and modeled and modeled. The tariff is going to be 54%. The tariff is going to be 82%. The tariff is going to be 30%. Nobody knew where it was because nobody knew. Because of that, those guys weren’t worrying about, "What am I going to put on the shelf in a promotion in November?" They were worried about, "What am I going to do in May?" That is what happened, not to Acme United or cutting tools. It happened to every single retailer in the United States that had imported products. Most of them did.

Jim Marrone, Analyst, Singular Research: That was occurring in the spring is what you’re suggesting, and now that’s kind of abated. Is that what you’re suggesting?

Walter C. Johnsen, Chairman and CEO, Acme United Corporation: Yeah. When buyers are buying, they don’t place an order in a week and expect it to be delivered. They’re laying out a program that takes time to be set in the planograms and production to go in, be delivered, and go onto the shelves. Typically, they’re looking out six to nine months. When we’re looking at second, third quarter, fourth quarter, there’s hardly any promotions for a Westcott product. That doesn’t mean you don’t have things on the shelf, the regularly planned items, the planograms. The mix, when you’re doing Christmas promotions, the in and outs in a retailer, which is called merchandising, they stopped doing that. Now, it has stabilized.

When the tariffs went to 30% for China and stayed, we were able to then recover and work on price increases and cost savings and things so that they had product that could be sold at fair prices, which they do have from our products. They had the base to start to look at the new promotions. That is absolutely occurring now, for looking out, first quarter, second quarter. It feels like the momentum is pretty much normal. It was certainly not normal when you had 145% tariffs and retail went dry. All they could do was focus on what do we do tomorrow.

Jim Marrone, Analyst, Singular Research: Right. You also kind of mitigated that impact through effective inventory management, I remember.

Walter C. Johnsen, Chairman and CEO, Acme United Corporation: Yes, we did.

Jim Marrone, Analyst, Singular Research: Does that still continue today, or has your inventory run down where you’re not able to have that flexibility, or what’s the state of that?

Walter C. Johnsen, Chairman and CEO, Acme United Corporation: Yeah, that’s a good point. For those who may not know, when we had a new president elected last year who had campaigned on tariffs, we increased our inventory by a number of millions of dollars in preparation for some level of tariffs, not expecting the kind that we had. During the last two quarters, we’ve been working that inventory down. In the meantime, we built up new inventory in preparation for something else that might happen, which we really don’t think will happen, but we’re prepared in case the current tariff issues continue to be out there with China and the United States.

Jim Marrone, Analyst, Singular Research: Okay. Thanks for the clarification then, Walter. Thank you.

Walter C. Johnsen, Chairman and CEO, Acme United Corporation: Sure, you’re welcome.

Conference Operator: The next question comes from the line of Tim Kaul with Capital Management Corporation. Please proceed.

Tim Kaul, Analyst, Capital Management Corporation: Congratulations on steady margins in the face of tariffs. That’s quite a feat.

Walter C. Johnsen, Chairman and CEO, Acme United Corporation: Thank you, Tim.

Tim Kaul, Analyst, Capital Management Corporation: I was wondering about the other questions.

Walter C. Johnsen, Chairman and CEO, Acme United Corporation: It actually is because you’ve got a whole series of things that you really needed to manage. You know, your costs, modest increases, just a changing environment. To hold the margins or slightly increase them is an accomplishment, and we’re happy with it.

Tim Kaul, Analyst, Capital Management Corporation: That’s great. I was wondering about other expense. It was $146 million versus last year, a gain of $17 million. That’s quite a swing. Was there anything recurring in there or unusual?

Walter C. Johnsen, Chairman and CEO, Acme United Corporation: What was that?

Jim Marrone, Analyst, Singular Research: You meant $146,000 compared to?

Tim Kaul, Analyst, Capital Management Corporation: Sorry. sorry.

Jim Marrone, Analyst, Singular Research: Yeah. No, those are just foreign exchange gains and losses. I mean, you know, sometimes, like for example, you’ll bring in products in Europe, and you record it at an exchange rate of 1.17, and then during the quarter, maybe the rate went down to 1.14. It became more expensive when you actually paid for the goods. It’s just fluctuation in currencies, and that’s really the euro and the Canadian dollar.

Tim Kaul, Analyst, Capital Management Corporation: The basic and diluted share count rose for the three-month and the nine-month period, but you’re financially strong with excess free cash flow and declining debt. Can any action be taken to slow down share creep?

Walter C. Johnsen, Chairman and CEO, Acme United Corporation: We’ve been buying in shares, and every time we, I mean, buying in shares every time someone wants to exercise. That has reduced quite a bit of share creep, but we haven’t been in the market buying actively in the market. We could. We certainly are generating cash. Again, I’m careful about that because as we’ve gotten bigger, the acquisition sizes that we’ve looked at tend to have grown, and they take more cash. We could do that, Tim. I think when options are being exercised, where the strike price is below the market, that’s a no-brainer for the company. The other, I’m a little bit more cautious about.

Tim Kaul, Analyst, Capital Management Corporation: Is there any insight as to the trade’s level of inventory? Are you ever able to see whether it’s above average or below average? One would think it’ll be extremely low in retailer warehouses.

Walter C. Johnsen, Chairman and CEO, Acme United Corporation: That’s true. Amazon, in particular, has scaled back the inventory that it’s holding in first aid by, I think, about two weeks. That generates cash for them, and it’s probably a smart thing because our deliveries are excellent. They can’t keep doing that. On that end, for sure. On the store side, it’s less clear to me because I don’t always have the visibility. We do with Amazon, and they have cut back for a couple of weeks. That’s done, I think.

Tim Kaul, Analyst, Capital Management Corporation: You have a history of nice organic growth from cross-selling and capacity increasing. You increased the capacity at MedNap, and now you’re doing it at Spill Magic. With Spill Magic, was capacity constrained to the point where you could not fill orders, or you didn’t market to new customers, or you excluded Spill Magic from some kits? I’m just trying to get a feel for when that operation was fully running, whether you could get it back.

Walter C. Johnsen, Chairman and CEO, Acme United Corporation: Yeah. The thing is that when we bought Spill Magic, it was about $5 million in revenues, and it’s about $15 million now. The facilities that we had when we bought it are bursting. The facility that we bought, I think, was a very, very good value. You never know unless you sell, which we’re not going to do. The Nashville market has heated up immensely for an existing manufacturing site since Trump has taken office and put in these tariffs because a lot of companies, including ourselves, who were looking at places to expand manufacturing, went to places that were favorable to manufacturing. The Nashville area is one of those. We bought Spill Magic for under $80 a square foot. The market for that that we saw was generally running somewhere between $90 and $110 a foot. I think we bought it well.

The real beauty is it’s a facility that we can move into, have the space to continue to grow, install the automation equipment, which once installed, you really don’t want to move again and again with leases. It’ll have a home and begin to move things like powder, transfer equipment, and ducting, which is expensive to install, but once it’s in, reduces labor and increases productivity. That site we think is going to be just perfect for Spill Magic because it’s on 11 acres, there’s room for a 60,000-square-foot expansion, which I hope we can use sometime. The first part to your question, we bought a $5 million business that we grew to $15 million. Obviously, we needed space. The second is now that we have it, we can really automate with putting good equipment in a permanent home.

Tim Kaul, Analyst, Capital Management Corporation: it is operational in the first quarter, would production of Spill Magic in general increase through the year next year, or how fast can you get it up to the level that you want to produce?

Walter C. Johnsen, Chairman and CEO, Acme United Corporation: I haven’t looked at the budget to really answer that factually. My gut reaction is it’s been growing every year, and it probably will continue to. I can’t give you an estimate because I just am not prepared for it.

Tim Kaul, Analyst, Capital Management Corporation: When you said the facility will open in the first quarter, will it be full production or like previous production, will it be up and running completely?

Walter C. Johnsen, Chairman and CEO, Acme United Corporation: We will be fully running by the end of March. There’s a tenant in the facility right now who will be vacating sometime in December. As soon as that’s done, we’ll be preparing the site for the move, doing the move, and beginning and completing getting into full production during that first quarter. It will be by the end of March fully operational.

Tim Kaul, Analyst, Capital Management Corporation: Thank you. Congratulations again on the sales growth and keeping the margins where they are. I think when the other companies that are importing report, they won’t be able to say they did the same thing. Great management through this process, as always. It’s amazing. Thank you.

Walter C. Johnsen, Chairman and CEO, Acme United Corporation: Thank you, Tim.

Conference Operator: The next question comes from the line of Richard Dearnley with Longport Partners. Please proceed.

Richard Dearnley, Analyst, Longport Partners: Good morning. To clarify on Tim’s question, are you in the new Spill Magic facility, are you using the same production equipment, or is it new, more productive equipment?

Walter C. Johnsen, Chairman and CEO, Acme United Corporation: When we first move?

Richard Dearnley, Analyst, Longport Partners: Yes.

Walter C. Johnsen, Chairman and CEO, Acme United Corporation: Yeah. We’ll be moving the exact equipment. There’s some equipment that’s in there right now because they were handling powders that we’re going to be buying, and that equipment actually helps us a lot with the automation. The next step, which is robotic placement of items into boxes, robotic filling of the bags, that will be new equipment, and it’ll be happening during 2026.

Richard Dearnley, Analyst, Longport Partners: I see. When you start in March, if, to use rough numbers, the capacity of the plant would still be about $15 million, or would it be, you know, $20 million or something like that?

Walter C. Johnsen, Chairman and CEO, Acme United Corporation: The capacity should be more than 20.

Richard Dearnley, Analyst, Longport Partners: That’s at startup, not through the year.

Walter C. Johnsen, Chairman and CEO, Acme United Corporation: I’m not saying that we were going to hit those kinds of numbers.

Richard Dearnley, Analyst, Longport Partners: Okay, I’m just getting that, you know, the big picture there. Great.

Walter C. Johnsen, Chairman and CEO, Acme United Corporation: Yeah. Let me explain a little bit more, Dick, because you’ve got a good point. In our current site, one of the things that we had a big issue with was storage of raw materials. We had no place for it. Here we’ve got an 11-acre site. We’ve got plenty of room outside of the actual physical building to be storing in containers, the raw material. By freeing that up, we’re now able to have a full workspace within the current 78,000 square feet. It’s also got, I think, the 24-foot ceilings, craned capability to be moving heavy objects. The ability to process faster is big when you have the space and you’ve got the physical facility. The day we close, because the raw materials will be stored outside in enclosed containers, we could be looking at $25 million.

Richard Dearnley, Analyst, Longport Partners: Right. Great. Back up your comment about online in first aid. The online and the refill business was strong. What does the refill business at the moment, percent of first aid revenue, you know, in round numbers?

Walter C. Johnsen, Chairman and CEO, Acme United Corporation: Paul, you’re probably better at that than me.

Jim Marrone, Analyst, Singular Research: I’m kind of guessing here like 25%.

Walter C. Johnsen, Chairman and CEO, Acme United Corporation: All right, yeah, that sounds right.

Richard Dearnley, Analyst, Longport Partners: The automated refill, you know, with the hang tags and so on, is, where are you on the implementation of that across the base of refill customers?

Walter C. Johnsen, Chairman and CEO, Acme United Corporation: All right. We have one robotic machine in Rocky Mount. It’s operating. It’s fast. It’s accurate. It’s terrific. We’ve got a second one that is about to be installed. I believe it’s delivered to Vancouver, in Vancouver, Washington, at the First Aid Only site there in November. By year-end, we’ll have two of those done. Those are for taking bulk things like alcohol prep pads and PZK wipes and putting them into boxes that then are used to go into the smart compliance refills. It’s a very core piece of basically an annuity. There’s a third machine that’s in Brooksville that we’re setting up and should be functional by March. That’ll be used for lens cleaners that go to customers like a Home Depot or maybe a Walmart, in boxes of 50.

There are three machines right now: one is operating, one is about to be installed, and one will be ready, we believe, by March.

Richard Dearnley, Analyst, Longport Partners: Right. All right. Now, the new introduction, I’m back to the automatic reorder in first aid when you take, you know, the eyewash thing out, and it triggers the new system that automatically, you know, reorders it. Yeah. How rolled out is that, or is that just getting started in your base?

Walter C. Johnsen, Chairman and CEO, Acme United Corporation: We introduced a next generation in September of this year. That next generation had a lot of interest. Two major industrial distributors in the United States currently are out there actively training their sales force with it. We’re pretty excited about it. You haven’t seen the 9% growth in first aid in the third quarter. I don’t want to overemphasize it right now till we start to see what can happen. If we’re right with it, it’ll be a big deal. Let’s just downplay that until it is.

Richard Dearnley, Analyst, Longport Partners: Yeah, if it’s a big deal, you maybe begin to see the beginnings of that in the first half of 2026, would be a guess?

Walter C. Johnsen, Chairman and CEO, Acme United Corporation: Yeah, that’s what I would think, Dick. Let’s leave that vector for when it’s actually happening, and we can be excited about it. Our customers certainly seem to be excited about it.

Richard Dearnley, Analyst, Longport Partners: Great. Okay, thank you very much.

Walter C. Johnsen, Chairman and CEO, Acme United Corporation: Thank you, Dick.

Conference Operator: Thank you. There are no further questions at this time. I’d like to turn the call back over to Mr. Johnsen for closing remarks.

Walter C. Johnsen, Chairman and CEO, Acme United Corporation: Thank you for joining us. If there are no further questions, this call is complete. We look forward to speaking to you again after the fourth quarter. Goodbye.

Conference Operator: Thank you. This concludes today’s conference. You may disconnect your lines at this time. We thank you for your participation.

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