Earnings call transcript: Baylin Technologies misses Q3 2025 forecasts

Baylin Technologies reported its Q3 2025 earnings, revealing a net loss per share of $0.01, slightly underperforming the forecast of breaking even. The company's revenue fell short of expectations, coming in at $16.75 million against a forecast of $20.8 million, marking a 19.47% revenue surprise. Following the earnings release, Baylin's stock experienced an 8.33% decline, closing at $0.275 in after-hours trading.

Key Takeaways

• Baylin Technologies reported a net loss per share of $0.01, missing the forecast of $0.
• Revenue for Q3 2025 was $16.75 million, below the expected $20.8 million.
• The stock dropped by 8.33% following the earnings announcement.
• The company reduced its net debt by 20% over the past year.
• Baylin sees strong growth potential in wireless infrastructure and defense sectors.

Company Performance

Baylin Technologies experienced a challenging quarter, with a 19% decline in revenue year-over-year, totaling $16.8 million for Q3 2025. Despite the revenue drop, the company improved its net loss to $1.1 million from $1.4 million in the same quarter last year. The company continues to focus on operational efficiency, evidenced by a reduction in operating expenses from $9.1 million to $7.6 million.

Financial Highlights

• Revenue: $16.8 million (19% decline YoY)
• Gross Margin: 43.7%
• Adjusted EBITDA: $0.6 million
• Net Loss: $1.1 million (improved from $1.4 million in Q3 2024)
• Operating Cash Flow: Modest $0.1 million outflow, excluding a $2.3 million escrow payment
• Cash and Equivalents: $5.3 million (up from $3.7 million in Q3 2024)
• Net Debt: Reduced by 20% to $11.4 million

Earnings vs. Forecast

Baylin Technologies' Q3 2025 earnings per share of -$0.01 did not meet the forecast of $0, marking a minor deviation. The revenue of $16.75 million was significantly below the expected $20.8 million, resulting in a negative revenue surprise of 19.47%. This underperformance was a deviation from the company's previous quarters, where results were generally closer to market expectations.

Market Reaction

Following the earnings announcement, Baylin's stock dropped by 8.33%, closing at $0.275 in after-hours trading. The stock's movement reflects investor disappointment with the earnings miss and revenue shortfall. The stock's decline places it closer to its 52-week low of $0.195, indicating a challenging period for Baylin amidst broader market trends.

Outlook & Guidance

Looking ahead, Baylin Technologies anticipates similar performance in Q4 2025, with increased sales volumes expected in its embedded line in 2026. The company remains optimistic about its wireless infrastructure segment, which is projected to surpass 2024 numbers. Additionally, potential growth in defense spending is expected in 2026-2027.

Executive Commentary

Leighton Carroll, CEO of Baylin Technologies, highlighted the company's strategic focus: "We grew 40%. How did we do that? We grew by taking advantages of specific use cases, specific competitive advantages." Carroll also emphasized the importance of the wireless infrastructure group as a growth engine for the company.

Risks and Challenges

• Supply Chain Issues: Potential disruptions could impact production timelines and costs.
• Market Saturation: Increasing competition in the wireless infrastructure space may pressure margins.
• Macroeconomic Pressures: Economic downturns could affect customer spending and project timelines.
• Technological Shifts: Rapid advancements may require continuous innovation and investment.
• Regulatory Changes: New regulations could impact operations and compliance costs.

Q&A

During the earnings call, analysts inquired about Baylin's R&D strategy across business lines and its approach to leveraging infrastructure growth opportunities. The company also addressed potential operating leverage in its wireless infrastructure segment and highlighted opportunities in defense spending.

Full transcript - Baylin Technologies (BYL) Q3 2025:

Conference Operator: Ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Baylin Technologies' third quarter 2025 financial results conference call. At this time, all lines are in listen-only mode. If at any time during this call you require immediate assistance, please press star zero for the operator. This call is being recorded today, November 6th, 2025. I'll now turn the call over to Kelly Myles, Director of Marketing and Investor Relations of Baylin Technologies. Please go ahead.

Kelly Myles, Director of Marketing and Investor Relations, Baylin Technologies: Hello and welcome, everyone. Thank you for joining the call this morning to review our third quarter 2025 financial results. On the call today from Baylin are Leighton Carroll, Chief Executive Officer, and Cliff Gary, Chief Financial Officer. We will be available for questions at the end of the presentation. Before we begin, let me make it clear that our comments today may include forward-looking statements and information, as well as answers to questions that could imply future expectations about the prospects and financial performance of the business for the rest of 2025 and beyond, and include the use of non-IFRS measures. These statements are subject to risks, uncertainties, and assumptions. Accordingly, actual performance could differ materially from statements made or information provided today, so you should not place undue reliance on them. We also do not intend to update forward-looking statements or information except as required by law.

I ask that you read our legal disclaimers, an explanation of the use of non-IFRS measures, and refer you to the risks and assumptions outlined in our public disclosures. In particular, the sections entitled Forward-Looking Statements and Risk Factors in our annual information form for the year ended December 31, 2024, and our other filings, which are available on SEDAR+. Our third quarter results were released after market close yesterday. The press release, financial statements, and MD&A are available on SEDAR+, as well as our website at baylintech.com and otcmarkets.com. I would now like to turn the call over to Leighton.

Leighton Carroll, Chief Executive Officer, Baylin Technologies: Thank you, Kelly. Good morning. As we indicated in our last earnings call, we foresaw softer market conditions in Q3. Had discussed that. As a result, our top-line revenue was $16.8 million. There actually were a couple of additional factors to that I'll talk about here in a second. We obviously did $22.5 million in Q2 of 2025 and did $20.7 million in Q3 of 2024. The decline was primarily driven by, in the case of our embedded business, a situation of an elevated customer inventory level in a key product, which caused lower order flow-through. Secondly, we had a large amplifier package that was to ship in September, and in the month of September, and it was obviously going to be meaningful revenue in our satellite business, so we wouldn't be talking about it.

In September, they came to us and said, "Because of the importance of the system, it's for a US DoD application." They wanted to delay shipment for 30 days, and they would pay us for additional burn-in or effectively testing time and keeping the systems powered on of that amplifier package. That moved clearly, you can't recognize revenue in that situation. That moved that revenue into October. That was very material. The number was actually a bit lower than I was anticipating because we had anticipated, particularly that SACOM business to have flown through. When a customer asks you to do something like that. "No, so you can make a number" is probably not the right answer. Separately from that, and I think people know this about us, we've really always focused on how do we improve our margins and how do we operate efficiently.

Gross margin on a percentage basis was 43.7% on the lower revenue. That comes to $7.3 million. Now, obviously, that's a decrease year over year. That pretty. Over $2 million. Conversely, because of that focus on, I would say, cost control, operational efficiency, and what we're doing with product mix, despite being in a little more of a challenging environment as we got to the back half of this year, our adjusted EBITDA was $0.6 million, which is only, effectively, $300,000 lower than the same period last year, understanding that the same period last year had substantially higher revenues than what we produced in this quarter. Obviously, I'm not satisfied with this level of performance. I do think it speaks to.

In the long term, and I do fully believe this, the business as revenues continue to rise, and this is part of where in the next, as I get to the second half of what I'm speaking, I'll talk about 2026. The improving margins and coming back to a growth profile, if you're able to have this level of gross margins in a down environment, I like where we're going for next year still. With that said, I'll now hand it over to Cliff Gary to walk through the financial information, after which, obviously, I'll talk a little bit more.

Cliff Gary, Chief Financial Officer, Baylin Technologies: Thank you, Leighton. Good morning, everyone. The third quarter presented several challenges, with revenue totaling $16.8 million representing a 19% decline compared to the same period last year. This decrease was primarily driven by the lower demand and customer order push-outs in our embedded and SACOM business lines. Despite this, we maintained a gross margin of 43.4%, reflecting disciplined operational execution. We also made meaningful progress in cost control, reducing operating expenses from $9.1 million in Q3 of 2024 to $7.6 million in the current quarter, aided by lower incentive provisions and a continued focus on aligning costs with revenue levels. Adjusted EBITDA came in at $0.6 million, down $0.3 million year over year, while the quarter resulted in an operating loss of $0.3 million compared to a $0.4 million profit in Q3 of 2024.

Finance expenses and fair value adjustments were $0.8 million lower, helping to narrow our net loss to $1.1 million, an improvement from the $1.4 million net loss in the same quarter last year. On the cash flow front, operating activity saw a modest outflow of $0.1 million, largely due to a $2.3 million escrow payment related to the 2018 Advantech acquisition. Excluding this payment, operating cash flow would have been a positive $2.2 million, driven by working capital reductions in response to lower revenue levels. This escrow payment was offset by the issuance of preferred shares for the same amount, resulting in a $1 million cash inflow from financing activities after debt and lease payments. We ended the quarter with $5.3 million in cash and cash equivalents, up from $3.7 million in Q3 2024 and $4.3 million at the end of Q2 2025.

We remained fully compliant with our lending covenants. Our net debt decreased to $11.4 million, a 20% reduction from the prior year-end figure of $14.3 million, thanks to $2.8 million year-to-date cash generated from operations. While the quarter reflected our prior guidance on business conditions, our ability to preserve margins, reduce costs, and strengthen our balance sheet underscores the resilience of our business. These efforts position us well for future growth. With that, I'll now turn the call back to Leighton.

Leighton Carroll, Chief Executive Officer, Baylin Technologies: All right. Thank you, Cliff. Look, we said that back after the year we foresaw that it was going to be softer. We obviously had a bang-out Q2, right? I would love that to be the case every quarter. We saw this coming. We knew it was not going to be the case. Hopefully, you have heard, at least from some of the numbers. We took steps and took steps early to continue addressing cost structure and look at margin improvement. Obviously, to try to run efficiently. Looking ahead, and I think I said this in the second quarter earnings, we actually anticipate similar results in the fourth quarter. Wireless infrastructure remains strong, right? It was fascinating to see a business grow 40% in a very down market in 2024. The budget was set higher, and guess what? They are ahead of plan.

I don't see that stopping, and I like how that sets us up into 2026. The challenge has been that we expected the softness in the embedded line. And then SACOM, the order flow has been at lower levels, and that's what is reflected in some of the overall backlog numbers. Despite these challenges, we remain firmly committed to our strategic pillars, executing market-driven strategies that make sense for us and deliver customer value, maintaining and continuing to focus on cost discipline, being very careful with how we prioritize and spend on R&D, and focusing on revenue growth and margin enhancement. In the long term, I think these will serve us well. Encouragingly, we expect really 2026, we'll see increased sales volumes from new and existing customers in our embedded line.

I actually believe that as we get out of this year and get into next year, that line will start to strengthen. I do expect, and I'm actually very excited about some of the new technology that we're doing in infrastructure that. We even have now just in trial and new use cases that are being opened to us through our carrier partners. If you haven't seen it, please take a look at what Deutsche Telekom produced. They actually produced a YouTube video. I've never seen this in my career, about one of our products and what it did for them in the Hockenheimring with 250,000 people. Honestly, bananas. It tells me that I think we were going in a really good place in infrastructure.

Obviously, we're looking at leaner operations and a more efficient cost structure in SACOM, coupled with the expectation we have a very large pipeline of bids currently. Given what's been happening in the industry, I actually think it's setting that business up for, obviously, a better 2026, but the plan is, longer term, a more sustained, higher-margin operating business. That will deliver to the bottom line. I'm talking about each of the businesses quickly. The wireless infrastructure business line really continued. Strong year-over-year growth. I mean, keep in mind that last year was a bang-out year. Seasonality in that business, this is not a Baylin thing. Wireless infrastructure Q4 is always a lower sales or revenue volume order. Easiest place to point to, Verizon shuts down their warehouses. They will not take any more order flow on December 15, as an example.

You start getting to the holiday period. You may get some higher ordering, but the fulfillment and ability to turn that to revenue typically has some seasonality to it. I do like where we are with what's going on in our multibeam antennas. I do like what's going on as we're expanding globally. Obviously, you have someone like Deutsche Telekom call you and say they want to do a press release and mention your company by name. Other European carriers, we actually had a tier-one English carrier reach out to us and say, "That was very impressive. We've now quoted antennas for them." I like the trend. I like where we're going, and I like some of the new technology. I do expect wireless infrastructure is going to clearly beat 2024 numbers and beat their budget, which is a cool thing.

Given that it is the highest margin profile, has the highest margin profile of our businesses, I like that this is going to continue to drive and help the company long term. The embedded line, it was softer Q3 2025 than it was last year. It is really around some customer push-outs. We had a program, and it is a multi-year program, and they have told us it is coming back in 2026, which is a positive, but it has been really down this year. That was largely offset in prior quarters by a different program that has been doing well. We are having growth with other customers on other programs. The second program that I mentioned, which has a nice profile to it, the ODM who we work with ran into oversupply in Q3.

What's interesting is they actually are starting to pull through orders again in Q4, but we do nevertheless think that the profile of that business will be down year over year for the entire year. With that said, the improvements in gross margin, and hopefully, you guys kind of know this, I'm a manager gross margin guy, which means manage your costs, get your pricing strategies right. Seeing improved gross margins and what that speaks to and how you get there, I think it reflects very well on the embedded team and sets us up, hopefully, for a nice 2026. The satellite business. Obviously, there have been some major changes, particularly in order flow. I've talked about that previously. The pipeline remains strong. We actually had a nice press release where some of our Genesis amplifiers, we had customer orders from a Middle Eastern broadcaster.

Part of the reason, there's an old saying, "You can't cost cut your way to success." You have to cut your costs and manage your costs, but you also have to innovate. The book, when the purchasers were received to when the amplifiers were shipped, in that case, now, we obviously had the inventory in hand. There was a lot of things there. That was 60 days. To put that in comparison, some of the legacy products would be six months or more. Being able to do that over the course, and this is kind of the technology evolution in this product stack, with less people and less complexity, lends itself to higher margins in the long term. We're going through that transition now while we're taking costs out, given the lower order flow.

Conversely, given what we're seeing in the pipeline and what we've seen out of some of our competitors, I do think that our pipeline is going to start converting as we get deeper into fourth quarter and certainly into Q1 of 2026, which will allow this business to effectively come through a low point with some restructuring and get to a better place for the long term. That's effectively the vision for it. Obviously, lower performance this year. I think we've been pretty transparent about this. Given the focus on operating discipline and long-term outcome, and that, realistically, the performance of the business, despite these challenges in 2025, will look substantively similar, if not identical, to 2024. It basically means that we're continuing to do the things we need to do to improve the business.

Create that level of resiliency, and get to further growth in 2026 and beyond, which is, to be honest, what we foresee. I could not do this without our employees. They have to put up with me, my executive team, and some challenging environments. If you go back four years and a quarter when I walked in the door, they have been through a lot, but God bless them. We have a lot of talent and people who really believe in what we are building because a lot of what we do is cool and it matters. I remain confident in our long-term outlook, and we are going to look on building on the places we are growing, fix things that need to be fixed, and get them back to growth and go from there. With that, that concludes our formal remarks. Operators, we are happy to take any questions.

Cliff Gary, Chief Financial Officer, Baylin Technologies: Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question and answer session. Should you have a question, please press the star followed by the 1 on your touch-tone phone. You will hear a prompt that your hand has been raised. Our first question today will come from Daniel Rosenberg, Paradigm Capital. Please go ahead.

Hi. Good morning, Leighton and Cliff. My first question comes around this R&D spend and the product roadmap. I was wondering, as you think about your three main business lines, how you think about the product set and where you need to invest for future growth opportunities. Thanks.

Leighton Carroll, Chief Executive Officer, Baylin Technologies: Yeah. No. Thank you, Daniel. Great question. Having a remarkable capacity for stating the obvious. We right-size R&D to opportunity and growth, but that is different by different business. Wireless infrastructure, I'm very thankful for our team of engineers just outside of Ottawa. Honestly, I think they're world-class. We are growing, and we are having some really interesting opportunities led by both the Big Three US and Big Three Canadian carriers and for different use cases. Probably not a surprise. That is a place we are clearly going to continue to invest. Because of the growth and margin profile, a place that over time, I think you will see more engineering resources going into. The embedded team is very different. It's more what I would say programmatic. The embedded team is not a product house, right?

The embedded group, it's really a solution house that uses RF engineering to create. In some cases, very complex but high-quality RF solutions that are either embedded or a part of another person's products. It's why there's a Charter Communications router these days, and we're working on one that has even more. The one that's being produced today, it has 14 antennas in it, and it's a small box. That is a huge challenge to make that work and perform correctly. Part of why we get used, but that's part of a program we've won. The engineering spend is maybe perhaps less R&D and more solution driving into key revenue. It's not like we're developing an independent technology in that shop, if that makes sense. Hope I answered that right. Within the satellite business. It has been.

Looking at the legacy products, they could be at times difficult to produce. The internals of them could be, I would argue, overly complex, which for our team in Quebec meant it could be challenging. It was, in some cases, more of a job shop working to produce something. This one is not the same thing I produced the last time. We've been spending our money there and the innovations there not just to improve the products and the functionality, which is really where we're going in the Genesis line, but design for manufacturability, common component architecture. Given where we've been in SACOM with the softness in revenue and needed changes in cost structure, we've effectively been addressing cost structure. Direct labor side, some indirect, obviously, looking at fixed cost structures and how to address those.

While striving to preserve engineering talent on the roadmap to drive the new efficiencies and products, to me, that was the place to do it. We drive additional growth into that business. It will, much like we're seeing on the wireless side, the infrastructure side, be opportunistic-driven. Where we are right now, it's about driving efficiencies and where the puck is going, so to speak. Whereas in the infrastructure, we have some clear use cases where we need to go run at this now and apply our engineering talent there. I know that may have been a long-winded answer, but hopefully, that gave you some insights.

I appreciate that color. Clearly, infrastructure, there's a big opportunity for you there, hence the focus. I just want to dive deeper on the SACOM. If we look past 12 months, like 2 years or 5 years for this business, I just think about the trends in defense spending and just geopolitics and all of that. Is there opportunity for you guys to build a position there?

Oh, that's 100%. 100% part of the playbook. That's a great question. Stating the obvious, 2025 has certainly been a wonky year. As things materialized through the year, it became very clear to us that Europe would start to pivot to more of a pronounced defense spending cycle. The U.S. is certainly going to continue to invest heavily in defense spending. Given what happened at the beginning of the year with DOGE, with TerraSyn, and the customer instability that caused, we're obviously causing a compliance. We're tariff-exempt for what we produce in Kirkland. There was a lot of instability in the beginning of the year. You layer on Europe is now pivoting. As even I mentioned, the amplifiers package, which was not immaterial, that was delayed from Q3 to Q4. That's a defense spending application.

We actually see the opportunities in defense spending for us rising. We actually have made changes in personnel in Europe to focus on defense spending and focus on unlocking other opportunities for us. The challenge is, particularly on the European side, we deal with government entities, and I wish they move fast, but that is not the reality. We do see defense spending becoming a higher component of what we produce, particularly, I would say, the back half of 2026 to 2027. It is not like an immediate thing right now, which is effectively part of what we're seeing in the quarterly results.

Thanks for that. The infrastructure opportunity, I was wondering if you could speak to just the playbook. In terms of capturing kind of more share of some massive customers that you have, could you just speak to, is it about a roadmap of new products that gets incremental different programs, or is it, is there a, with the product set that you have now, just more purchases, more volume in terms of this 5G rollout that's happening? Maybe if you could just give some context into how you see this deployment cycle going. What inning are we in in terms of small cells and 5G and the like?

Yeah. 5G is going to continue. I use North America as maybe a proxy. If you roll back to, call it 2021, 2022, and maybe the first six months of 2023, there was a lot of spending in wireless infrastructure. Some of that was readjusting for COVID. You also had the dynamic in the U.S. of T-Mobile acquiring Sprint, retiring a network, putting new network assets up. You had AT&T and Verizon in that period deploying C-band assets. There was a ton of spending. 2024, even though there was continued spending on wireless networks, it was honestly the lowest capital spend market in the last five or six. I would argue dollar adjusted in the last ten. We grew 40%. How did we do that? We grew by taking advantages of specific use cases, specific competitive advantages that we had been building into.

Multi-beams, some of the things we do with specific small cell, even in building wireless. If I go back to kind of that macro cycle, as we get to 2025, 2026, 2027, most of what I've seen, and I agree with this, is it will be incrementally higher spending. What typically happens, every 10 years, there's a new G, right? We started off with just analog cellular. Then there was 2G. Then there was 3G. Then there was 4G around 2020. 3G came out right around the year 2000. 4G, 2010. 5G started just before 2020. 2020 was really kind of that we're starting to see more and more 5G. 2030 will be 6G. There's still a lot of discussion on what 6G will be. Is it going to bring AI into the network, network slicing, all these various permutations?

The one thing that is constant in each of these cycles is the data usage continues to grow unabated. Actually, it's two things. Wireless carriers acquire and deploy new spectrum assets, right? You can look at AT&T's acquisition of the EchoStar. They're not buying that not to deploy it. They're buying it because they need and want to deploy it, and they have a broader strategic vision for what they're going to do with that spectrum. There is certainly a lot of calls, even in the big, beautiful build for more. How does that help us? What are those opportunities? In the pure macro sense, investment in what we do will continue to happen, and it creates more opportunities to bring in new technology, deploy more wireless spectrum, add efficiencies to carriers.

How that translates for us specifically in some of the things that we've been up to, right? We initially focused on, when I got here, stop doing certain things, start doing certain things where we felt we could drive competitive advantage, but the use cases would matter to carriers. We've always been great in small cell. And by the way, even though I didn't talk about them, we continue to invest in them. Why is that? We knew 2024 was going to be a terrible year for small cell. We grew in different ways. We knew 2025, we'd start seeing it come back. Guess what? It has. Our balance by product type is really strong right now, probably the best it's ever been. We actually see as more data use.

Comes out and new spectrum comes out, wireless carriers don't always want to deploy more and more cell towers. It's very expensive. Doing infill with small cells or upgrading existing small cells with additional spectrum by definition creates more opportunity for us because we're so strong in that space. When you get to the multibeam technology, similar thing. Multibeams was originally where we started doing temporary deployments. Then it was for certain stadium applications. Then it was more. Now, because wireless carriers, and now, by the way, 3POs—when I say 3PO, it's a third-party operator, but that's the easiest proxies to that. I'm not saying that with X or Y or Z we're doing this specifically, but the American Towers, the Crown Castles, the SBA, the Boingos, the Boldyns, the Cellnexes in Europe.

Guys like that, they actually own infrastructure assets that can include everything from franchise rights to deploy small cells on behalf of carriers in a place like New York City to owning the rights to deploy a system in a stadium or a huge concert venue. Obviously, tower assets. A lot of those guys are now using multi-beams because they see the value on that, and that is helping its capture growth. Finally, we have two new use cases in wireless I'm very excited about. Where, just quickly, in a situation where a wireless carrier has a cell site that the amount of stuff they have deployed is getting saturated, we're seeing carriers now deploy our multi-beams as a more cost-efficient way to add capacity to those types of sectors. That's not going to stop.

That opens up lots of new sites for us, and it's actually pretty exciting. Separately, we have another technology that is currently in trial that is solving another regulatory problem for wireless carriers. When we've been out and talking to wireless carriers about this, we actually had seven, just talking through the technology concepts. Seven tier one carriers ask us for trials. That does not happen unless they think you've got something. We are in the process of bringing that to market. We're starting in home field with a Canadian carrier as our trial customer. If that does what we think it will do, and we got to get the economics right, we got to get the functionality has to match what everyone thinks it will do. If those things get right, that opens up a new growth opportunity.

The way that I think about it is the embedded business has been kind of the steady eddy business. It's never going to hockey stick up or down. The SACOM business has been a solid performer, but in the face of a downturn with a certain cost structure, it needs to have some improvements to it. It takes time to do the innovation we needed to do there because of the complexity of the product. We're doing those things, but the growth engine for us has turned into the wireless infrastructure group. I don't think that's going to stop. That's where I like how it sets up for the future because I think what we're doing should continue to roll.

Just last question for me, as you think about that infrastructure opportunity, could you just speak about the kind of operating leverage as volumes go up on the products you have, like once you're in procurement, efficiencies around sales. Just how we could think about, I guess, the incremental margin on that business.

Yeah. No, great question. Look, if we get crazy volumes, will we need to add resources and capabilities? Yeah, I'm sure. It is not linear by any stretch. One thing that going through a turnaround like we have been doing these past few years is that you better get really fricking operationally efficient and yet effective or you die. We have done that. The way I would describe it is we have levers we can pull at certain times on that growth, but we foresee that growth to be pretty efficient. Obviously, on your manufacturing and production side, scaling tends to be, with the exception of your indirect and fixed costs, a bit more linear. We will obviously look to enhance that. The core team and what we do, we do not have. That does not need to change materially.

Obviously, growth will lean into new opportunities, either in engineering or adding sellers as appropriate. It is clearly not linear, which means the business should continue to grow and ideally have margin growth. Conversely, we have had some situations where I had a tier one US carrier come to our business and say, "These three specific models, we see these as high runners for us, and we want to set up a volume discount arrangement with you where if we get past $5 million, $10 million in orders, we get a discount on the overall purchase price," which effectively would lower the net margin for that product. It does not take a genius to say, "Okay, having a high percentage number on, say, 500,000 in sales versus, a, call it a.

It's not a—I’m not talking single digits, but more than 10, way less than 25. Obviously, I don't want to reveal anything, but a discount somewhere in that window at $10 million. You do the math, that is way more money to the bottom line. That's not percentage margin growth. That's raw margin growth. At the end of the day, getting raw margin growth is the name of the game, but doing them in a way where you're still protecting what you do for your business. That hopefully philosophically gives you an aid. I think over time, there may be—we may not have the same raw percentage, but the idea is the bottom line number continues to roll and grow up.

Understood. Appreciate all the insights. I'll pass the line. Thanks for taking my questions.

Thanks, Daniel.

Conference Operator: There are no further questions at this time. Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's conference call. Thank you for your participation.

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