Earnings call transcript: Bemobi Q3 2025 sees 22% revenue growth

Bemobi Mobile Tech SA (BMOB3) reported a robust performance in Q3 2025, recording a 22% year-on-year revenue growth. The company's stock, however, dipped 1.97% to close at $24.41 following the earnings announcement. Bemobi's continued expansion into new markets and innovative product offerings were key highlights of the quarter.

Key Takeaways

• Revenue increased by 22% year-on-year, marking nine consecutive quarters of growth.
• Total Payment Volume (TPV) surged by 38%, reflecting strong operational performance.
• The company launched the Bemobi Pay platform, enhancing its fintech capabilities.
• Expansion into England and Spain highlights Bemobi's international growth strategy.
• Stock price fell 1.97% post-earnings, despite strong financial results.

Company Performance

Bemobi Mobile Tech SA demonstrated significant growth in Q3 2025, driven by its strategic focus on digital payments and international expansion. The company expanded its presence in Europe by entering the English and Spanish markets, adding six enterprise and 17 medium-sized clients. This expansion aligns with the broader trend of digital payment acceleration in emerging markets, where Bemobi sees substantial growth potential.

Financial Highlights

• Revenue: 180.05 million, a 22% increase year-on-year.
• Gross margin: Expanded by 3.6 percentage points, reaching R$138 million.
• Adjusted EBITDA: Nearly R$63 million.
• Adjusted net income: Grew by 57%.
• Operating cash flow: R$47.5 million.
• Cash balance: R$475 million at quarter-end.

Outlook & Guidance

Bemobi remains optimistic about its growth trajectory, targeting 80-90% growth from its SaaS and payments sectors. The company plans further expansion into Chile and Mexico and is exploring potential mergers and acquisitions in complementary payment technologies. Bemobi is also maintaining a strong dividend payout policy, reflecting confidence in its future cash flows.

Executive Commentary

CEO Pedro Ripper emphasized the company's strategy of combining software and payment solutions to unlock value. "We have this idea of becoming specialized in a few sectors, combining software and payment to unlock value," Ripper stated. He also highlighted the importance of offering the best experience with digital payments and service providers, reinforcing Bemobi's commitment to innovation.

Risks and Challenges

• Market saturation in the digital payments sector could slow growth.
• Economic instability in emerging markets might affect expansion plans.
• Regulatory changes in international markets could pose compliance challenges.
• Intense competition in fintech could pressure margins.
• Dependence on technological innovation requires continuous investment in R&D.

The earnings call highlighted Bemobi's strategic initiatives and strong financial performance, despite the stock's post-earnings decline. The company's focus on innovation and market expansion positions it well for future growth, although it must navigate potential risks in a competitive and dynamic market environment.

Full transcript - Bemobi Mobile Tech SA (BMOB3) Q3 2025:

Bruno Giardino, IR Director/Officer, Bemobi: Good morning, everyone. My name is Bruno Giardino, and I'm the new IR Director, or IR Officer, at the company. We're together again for another quarterly results presentation from Bemobi. We have Mr. Pedro Ripper, our CEO; Mr. Andrea Veloso, our CFO; and Joan Stryker, our CFO, with us. We also have Bruno Marquez from the IR Relations team. As usual, this presentation is being recorded, and attendees will be on listen-only mode during the conference. They will also be able to see speakers and the slide deck during the presentation. You have access to simultaneous interpreting into English. At the bottom right, you'll see a button called Interpretation. Pick your language. Now let's switch to English.

Interpreter/Moderator, Bemobi: We have an English channel that can be used by pressing the button called Interpretation on the bottom right corner of your screen, and then choosing the option English. I would like to highlight that after the presentation, we will hold a Q&A session. And now I switch back to Portuguese. Após a apresentação de nossos diretores, iniciaremos a sessão.

Bruno Giardino, IR Director/Officer, Bemobi: After our officers speak, we'll have a Q&A session. This will be offered solely to analysts and investors. You'll receive instructions on how to ask questions then. Before moving forward, as usual, let me read an excerpt for you. We'd like to clarify that any forward-looking statements that may be made during the earnings release presentation regarding our expectations, forecasts, operational, and financial targets are based on our assumptions and beliefs, as well as on information that is currently available to us. It entails risk, uncertainty, and variation because it relies on events that may or may not happen in the future. Investors must understand that overall economic conditions and other operational factors may have a future impact on our performance, leading to results that are significantly different from what we have said here. Now we'll hand it over to Mr.

Pedro Ripper, our CEO, who will be starting the presentation. Pedro? Hi, thank you. Good morning. Thank you again for being here with us for our earnings release presentation for the third quarter of 2025. As usual, we are following a strategy that we prepared in the last cycles. We are focusing on vertical payments. We have the idea of becoming specialized in a few sectors, combining software and payment to unlock value. In our case, we want to offer the best experience with digital payments and service providers. Having said that, it is important to mention a few highlights for this quarter. We are still making progress with our geographic expansion and with our client portfolio. We have another two countries now with the expansion of digital services. We had launches in England and Spain.

We also added six enterprise clients, meaning large-scale clients, and we had 17 medium-sized clients joining us. We had two big product launches, and it's important to mention them. If you came to our Investors' Day at the beginning of the year, we were discussing our vision and the evolution of our payment solution. We have a platform called Bemobi Pay. It consolidates this perspective on how to offer the best experience with payments. A very important element here is the smart checkout. Our idea is to have the modern payment methods that are available to people and that could even be combined. This leads to efficiency, a better journey, and a better payment conversion for our clients. When we talked about this in the Investors' Day, we were pre-launch.

Not only did we launch the first version of the smart checkout, but four of our anchor clients are already using this version. By the end of the second quarter of next year, we expect to have 100% of our payment clients using this new solution. This matters because this is our platform for the best experience possible with payments in the future. The payment conversion that we had in the previous version, which was fragmented, almost individualized, has gone up significantly. We believe that this is going to lead to better results and better outcomes for our clients. Let us watch a quick video that is going to show you our value proposition here. It's a 40-second video. Hi, this is the smart checkout by Bemobi Pay, made to make every single payment easy, fast, and safe. Multiple payment methods that are customized for each single user.

Different channels with their own look. Easy payments and endless possibilities.

Interpreter/Moderator, Bemobi: I don't think it's easy to watch a video in Zoom, but you could get an idea of what the product is. Right now, we have a dichotomy between the way as consumers we buy from the biggest marketplaces in Brazil, or we order food through iFood, or we get an Uber, compared to how we pay for our utility bills. So we're thinking about how to use this experience that we're used to having in other sectors in this industry for more recurring payments. This is what the smart checkout platform wants to offer. This is very similar to what was done with a few e-commerce players. Also regarding products, another big evolution that we had along with Bemobi Pay is that we have something that the client sees, which is the smart checkout. But you have the backstage, which is the payment orchestrator.

We released a very, very important feature here, which is the PIX orchestrator. Let me tell you why this matters and what it does. As we all know, the PIX transfer has gained lots of agency, lots of importance in the payment ecosystem. It is almost twice as much the GDP of Brazil regarding the volume of payments. As it becomes more relevant, it also becomes mission-critical. Most of our financial flow in the country is going through PIX transfers. The PIX transfers are under stress. There's lots of attacks, there's lots of threats, there's lots of breaches. It is only natural for PIX transfers to evolve, to keep up with the market. With the orchestrator here, we want to tackle three to four things. Number one, we want to be able to orchestrate different PIX solutions.

Ultimately, we're going to see clients who are going to use one, two, three banks as PIX transfer partners, and Bemobi will be able to cater to that. We also want to have efficiency and good portfolio allocation. We'll have a tool so that people can route their PIX transfer options smartly. They could even use our offerings or another partner's offerings. Also, in the last 12 months, the PIX transfer released different standards. Even though these standards are very promising, it's slow to get adapted to them because it is hard to have a PIX transfer with biometrics, a PIX transfer with nearing your phone to a station, or adding it to a wallet. The orchestrator works with all of these different standards, creates a smart checkout, and eliminates complexity so that companies can benefit from that.

Finally, we want the PIX transfer to be integrated to our recurrence engine for recurring payments. We combine it with credit card, debit card, and automatic PIX so that we can have a best-in-class solution. Something really important here is that we're committed to being at the vanguard of PIX offerings. We want to keep on streamlining the lives of our partners and their end clients. Finally, regarding products, in this broader perspective of our payments, we have this, which is very close to end users. We're releasing a new smart checkout that approaches this. We have the orchestrator in the background, orchestrating different players and different payment methods. Now we have a new segment, which is a subset for broader payment orchestration with the new PIX transfers.

You'll see that eventually we'll have more features so that we can unlock more value and accelerate our growth as a business. Now, going into clients, we know that we have four different business lines. I'm going to double-click in some of these clients. We're very happy. We are very strong in the telecommunications market at the moment, but we had a timid presence with broadband. For a year, we've been focusing more on that to onboard big broadband providers as partners. Recently, we signed a contract to digitalize payments for Vero, one of the biggest broadband providers in the country. I think it is also important to mention a new segment. You can see that we have good progress here in every vertical. We have Hapvida. Even for SaaS, we have another 47 clients in the enterprise segment. By the way, it's 47 total. Now, let's double-click on Hapvida.

We've been saying for a while that we have this idea of being the best payment solution for recurring payments. This idea has to do with learning the specificities of each client and each vertical segment. As we understand these specificities, we're able to slightly adapt our value proposition, and we're able to test these ideas out through new sectors. This is how we went into telecommunications and utilities, specifically with energy. This is also how we went into sanitation with Sabesp. This is also what we've been doing for elementary schools and higher education. This proves our ideas. Now, another natural extension to that is another very interesting industry in Brazil, which is private insurance. We're happy to hold a partnership with Hapvida. Hapvida offers insurance for the highest number of lives in Brazil, especially for individual family plans.

We're now digitalizing collection and payments at Hapvida. We want to offer them a better experience. On the other hand, under Bemobi's perspective, we want to go into a new segment, which has a lot to do with the segments we were working with before. This is really interesting. Our addressable market is 52 million beneficiaries under life insurance. We also have a very good TPV, a little bit above R$300 billion per year. So we would expect more news from this industry in upcoming quarters. We are still betting on the same strategy we had been working on. Let's discuss operating indicators now. We have four businesses, and we usually split indicators into B2C, which are connected to metrics at the end point, and B2B, which is usually new accounts or new logos, as we call them.

In this quarter, a highlight was the very robust growth that we saw in the volume of payments. We grew 38%. This is the growth of our TPV, our total payment volume, the total processing volume that we had for these clients. By the way, to make things easier, we also have a take rate number here. This is our revenue divided by this volume. As you can see, we have lots of stability here, even though we did have growth. In this quarter, we actually have a small increase in our take rate. So you may imagine that we grew our revenue more than our TPV. We had a 40% growth in our revenue year on year. For SaaS, this is grayed out on purpose. It is the last quarter where we show these metrics in this way.

Because for a while, this metric has not been reflecting very much what has been happening. Even though revenue is going up for this business, because of the modeling that we use, whereby we use individual licenses, this no longer represents the evolution of this industry. There's a big chunk that is not connected to this metric. The revenue by license does not mean much. A large chunk of these licenses are no longer connected to this. If we were to continue doing this kind of math, we would be slightly decreasing the number of licenses, but we would be materially increasing the revenue by license. None of these are actually true because it's not a mix of products. We believe that this metric will no longer be useful for the future.

For the sake of transparency, we're keeping these here because you can see that the arrows are going in the right way, and we'll be adding new logos, new businesses that are using SaaS. This is a good leading indicator for revenue, and we're going to show revenue itself. So this is why we have this change in services. For the other segments, both metrics still make sense. In microfinance, we had a small reduction in the number of transactions, but we have a significant increase in the revenue per transaction metric. We basically have the same explanation that we had in previous quarters. We had two types of transactions. Number one, credit scoring. This is very focused on fintechs and banks in some locations, using behavioral data analysis to better their scorings. So we have a higher ticket.

This business is growing, and the revenue per transaction is going up. Meanwhile, when we have advanced payments, we have a lower ticket, and we have lower volume. The net impact of that is a business that is growing revenue-wise, even though the volume is going down. Again, we are repeating the same trend that we saw in the last quarters. Finally, we have a more modest growth in user-paid subscriptions, but we had good progress with revenue per user. In total, we had significant revenue here in this quarter. Let me talk about revenue before I hand it over to our CFO, Andrei. We had some headwinds when it comes to the change in the exchange rate. With a neutral exchange rate, we would have 23%, but in the nominal figures, we had 22%. This is very good. It is more accelerated than in the last quarters.

We had nine consecutive quarters of growth, which is gradually accelerating growth. When we break this down and when we look at revenue, first, we can see the revenue that is not adjusted by the specific exchange rate. Year to date, we basically have 20% growth. It is marginally better instead of 22.3%. If we zoom into payments, we basically grew 40%, 39.8%. If we have a split with digital payments, we still have a small section where we grow less with the physical top-up distribution. Other areas, digital payments mainly, are growing more quickly. Finally, since payments are an important engine for growth and it's still very concentrated in Brazil, Brazil is growing a bit faster than our international markets. We see this trend for the next quarter too. Brazil is going to gain a bit more of a relative share.

Now, if we do a breakdown per business line, we see important changes here. We see that payment and SaaS are combined and are gaining ground, especially payments, which almost represents 40% when isolated. When added to SaaS, because these businesses go hand in hand, we have over 60% now. For subscriptions, even though we're healthy and we're going well, our relative share is going down. This was an overview. Let me now hand it over to Andrei Veloso, who will be talking about our financial indicators. Thank you, Pedro. Good morning. I'm happy to be here with you once again for our earnings release presentation. We have another quarter of robust results. This is the ninth consecutive quarter where we have revenue growth, as we were able to see in Pedro's share. You can see that this tailwind can also be noticed in other financial KPIs.

Let's start with the gross income, which grew above revenue. This comes from a more favorable mix regarding payment and SaaS. We have a gross margin of a little bit over R$138 million in the third quarter of this year. Our gross margin expansion is 3.6 percentage points. We have a similar change when it comes to the year to date, where we have 22% of growth. In this case, our margin expansion was a little bit lower. For OPEX, we see growth that is slightly above what we're used to, but this is in line with what we have been communicating to the market, especially in the last quarter. Given the many opportunities that we see with the couple of payments and SaaS, we're trying to have a more senior team.

We're trying to invest in it, not only for these two verticals, but regarding technology for this ecosystem as well. We are better structured to really enjoy all of these opportunities. We have a bit more expenditure with teams and IT for this quarter. Also, we usually have a volume that we provision for profit sharing in the first half of the year, which is usually more conservative because we want to keep an eye on our results. But because of the good results that we have been delivering, we want to accelerate profit sharing and bonuses for the second half of the year. We can see that in the results from the third quarter. We are also expanding the deadlines for payments for some payments. We also have a provision for bad debts, which also had an impact on the third quarter.

Let's see our adjusted EBITDA. I apologize, Andrei. In spite of the OPEX growth, once again, we were able to see good operational leverage here. We had almost R$63 million. We had a slight expansion in our EBITDA margin too. Year to date, our growth is basically in line with what we were able to offer in this quarter, in this case, with almost one percentage point in expansion. Next, Pedro. On the left, we're able to see our adjusted net income, excluding the swap. We had a 57% growth during this period. We had a net margin expansion here. This was the result mainly of our payment changes, with R$30 million in interest on equity. Year to date, we have lower growth, especially because of the negative exchange rate compared to 2024.

Now, regarding our operating cash flow, given our capacity to convert more EBITDA in cash, we have a growth of a little bit over 2 percentage points year on year for the third quarter of 2025. We can see an acceleration of this indicator by 28%. We are now at BRL 47.5 million in this quarter. We have an equivalent pace when we look at the results year to date. Our operational cash flow is around BRL 136 million. Finally, we can see the evolution of our cash balance. In this quarter, we were down by BRL 17 million compared to the cash that we had in the second quarter. In spite of good generation of operational cash, we had two things that strongly had an impact on this and that used up this cash. First, we used working capital for our payment operations, almost BRL 154 million.

We may say here that we may use our own cash for financing this operation. We work with credit card providers, acquiring low credit risk, and this is an operation that has been growing a lot. We have an ROI that is way above our consolidated numbers. And by the way, it's not R$154 million, it's R$54 million. So overall, when we have this kind of mix, it is only natural that we have an evolution of this indicator over time. We also paid R$30 million as interest on equity. This is why our cash is R$475 million at the end of the quarter. Finally, before I hand it over to Pedro, I'd like to say that we are paying lots of attention to any changes related to the tax reform, especially the impact that we'll see on dividend payouts.

We had approved the policy of paying $200 million in dividends until the end of 2025. We already paid out $88 million BRL. Out of the outstanding $112 million that we should be paying by the end of the year, we know that in December we should pay around $90 million. This is a ballpark. This represents 80% of the outstanding balance. The remaining balance will be paid as soon as we approve the results for the year in our meetings. We're trying to optimize value generation for shareholders. In a way, we're trying to mitigate adverse effects from this taxation reform. Once again, thank you for being here with us. Let me now hand it over to Pedro, and he'll be providing us with closing remarks. Thank you, Andrei. This is great. We have a few highlights here. These are important messages.

We have this idea that there is a dichotomy in this industry because the bills that we pay on a daily basis over BRL 1 trillion actually provide us with an experience that hasn't been leveraged compared to other payments. BMOBI is now taking leadership in this industry to address this opportunity and to reduce the friction that we still see when paying for our utility bills. The strategy of having vertical businesses in SaaS and payments is a strategy focused on tackling a real problem in our economy. This has the potential to be replicated in other countries as well. I think the 40% growth year on year is a good indicator that this is working. We have new partners, new logos as well, which is a good indication, as well as the TPV. Our EBITDA grew a lot. It grew more than our revenue.

If we look at EBITDA minus CAPEX, which is a proxy of the metric that Andrei was talking about regarding the operational cash operation, the operational cash, we see that it's going well. It's growing 24% while revenue grows by 22%. We made a really intentional decision here to invest more. This is why we have an increase in OPEX. We made relevant structuring investments with new hires and new teams. We're getting ready for this growth to be sustainable and for us to be able to go into new sectors. Our idea here is that we could have a better operational leveraging, but it wouldn't be the smart decision here. We're trying to strike balance between accelerated growth and our operational leverage. We are at 28% in our cash generation because R&D is going to continue existing, but here we have more obvious leveraging.

For R&D and our investments in platform, we're not going to grow as much as our revenue because this investment is leveraged by more clients. So we believe that we're going to keep on working on this model. From a product standpoint, which is connected to this investment, the more we invest in R&D, the more we focus on payments. Of course, we also need payments and investments for other business lines, but these are not in line with revenue. They are in line with growth. We believe that 80% to 90% of growth will come from SaaS and payments. This is basically what we see for this year. We believe that this is going to be the future of the company. So we're going to make our investments according to that. Now, finally, we're always looking for adjacent sectors where our verticalization strategy works.

Healthcare is another industry that we have been keeping an eye on for a while. I'm going to give you a teaser. Bemobi is always looking at other key verticals where we could have differentiators and value generation. Soon, we're going to be talking about new verticals that sound promising and that could help us out with our plans for 2026. Let me now hand it back over to Bruno, and he's going to be talking about our Q&A. Thank you, Pedro. Our first question is from Bernardo Gutmann from XP. Bernardo, please go ahead. Hello. Good morning. Good morning, Pedro, Andrei, Bruno. Thank you for taking my question and congratulations for these results. This is impressive. It's a new level of growth for the company. My whole question has to do with this. You've been offering consistent acceleration in every segment.

In every segment, you had two-digit growth with a more diversified commercial pipeline with important new contracts. When we look at the ramp-up of your accounts, Sabesp, Celta, Copelite, Hepvida, Vero, what do you think about the maturation curve? Are these new contracts closer to a plateau, or do you still have lots of room for growth in 2026? Now, if we put together this and what we see when you're prospecting, what is the level of visibility that you have right now to maintain this level of growth next year, or even to surprise us, maybe? That's my first question. If I may, I have a second question. I'd love to discuss subscription for apps and games. In my understanding, and please correct me if I'm wrong, this business seems to be less integrated to the rest of the portfolio compared to the past.

In the past, subscriptions were boosting payments, especially in telecommunications, but now it behaves like a stable, mature business, maybe with low levels of synergy. Having said that, I'd like to understand how you see this business in your strategy right now. Is there indeed a structural drop of synergy? Is this strategically relevant as a business, or is there a trend to maybe carve it out or isolate it without affecting the main vectors of growth? How do you look at that, and how do you plan for capital allocation, taking this into account in the next years? Excellent, Bernardo. Thank you. It's great to have you here with us. You've been with us from the get-go, so you know Bemobi really well, and you brought us two excellent questions.

Bernardo, I would say that if I were to take a snapshot of our current client portfolio, in almost every client segment, we still have lots of room for growth without necessarily going into other verticals and other clients. So we still have three drivers of growth in a way. I'm going to copy João. During our investors' day, he brought us a framework with H1, H2, and H3. It's like that. For H1, we have current clients and the room we have for growth as we mature and as payment methods and behaviors change. Also, as we work with new channels for the same clients. Of course, we have a standard deviation here. There are clients who are much closer to their maturity, but they are not reaching their full potential. We have other clients that are really at the beginning of the curve.

This driver still exists, and it's going to be helpful for us in 2026. We have another driver, which is new logos. For instance, with Hepvida and Vera, we're finishing up our contracts. We are starting deployment, and we're going to bring more revenue in. This is going to be new revenue year on year. Then we can start full new segments, which is a new driver. Going back to your question, I think it is very likely that we'll be able to keep a similar pace in payments. There's enough market, and there's enough potential either for current clients or new clients or adjacent sectors or existing sectors. I think our challenge lies in execution and timing. When you work with enterprise clients, the advantage is that once you're there, you have good scale.

The disadvantage is that sometimes you go slower, then you have a step up because when clients go in, the needle changes. But as we grow, it evens out. Again, in summary, we're confident. According to the visibility we have for our pipeline right now with our accounts, it looks like we have a good outlook of consistent growth, especially in this main area of business. This has a lot to do with your other question. Especially with digital subscriptions, how do we see this fitting into that? It does not fit into it as much, yes. We may think about a proxy, what it doesn't have, and some of our reflections. The proxy is that this is also a payment business, but it's almost the antithesis to this business.

Since we saw countries where we didn't see an explosion in payment methods, the opportunity was to use sectors that only used credit cards, and we kind of created an alternative payment method. But in Brazil, we have digital payments that are blossoming. So it's the opposite. We are seeing a sub-utilization of new payment methods, and we could enjoy that. So this was natural hedging for our new business. Both of them tackle payment methods. As one gets better, the other gets worse, and vice versa. We don't usually show this, but let me provide you with interesting data. If we were to look at the breakdown of digital subscriptions geographically, in Brazil, Brazil is always going significantly down. This is no coincidence. This is the macro impact of high digitalization levels in Brazil. It creates asymmetry.

Now, abroad, in other countries, we don't see a revolution in digital payments. So this other service actually grows. So the number you saw is the compounded effect of opposite trends. So I still like the idea that this is natural hedging for us, but I do feel like you that we have low natural synergy. I think we have been doing reasonably well in making sure that we ensure that we are focused on where we have more potential for growth without making this other segment a distractor. But this is natural hedging that we like. We also have a very good margin for this business and very low opportunity costs because we are great at this. We have low investments, and we don't spend much energy on it.

Now, we do have options for the maintenance of this business under the same roof, in addition to the hedging effect. With this business, we have a serious, sophisticated team. Since Bemobi wants to be selective and wants to gradually use what we learned in Brazil to replicate it to other countries, it is way easier to go into a country where I already operate with other businesses rather than going there from scratch, for instance. Of course, these businesses are different, but we are going into payments in Chile and Mexico. Mainly, we are leveraging a local mature presence with a senior team that we already have in these countries. So I think this business is more valuable to Bemobi than to outside players right now for many reasons. But yes, operational synergy is much lower, for sure. Was this clear, Bernardo? Yes, this was very clear.

Thank you. I do have a follow-up question because of your comment regarding the level of maturity you see in Brazil for digitalization efforts and the gap between Brazil and other emerging countries. I'd love to connect that to payments because we have a trend of accelerated payment changes in Brazil. Would you envision a second wave of acceleration for other emerging countries, similar to what we see today regarding digital maturity? Yes, we do, which is excellent because I believe that this means that many countries, including countries where we are already present, would be candidates for going international. The only caveat here, and I don't want us to have a skewed vision on this opportunity, is that contrary to digital subscriptions, which was very homogeneous in different markets, we are in 62 countries, and the incremental cost for a new launch is very low.

When we talk about new payment methods, it is extremely important to understand the local ecosystem in depth. You need to understand all payment methods, customer behavior, asymmetry in payments, how bills are paid, etc. The incremental investment is high, and these countries are not going to develop homogeneously. But yes, we do believe that in a huge number of countries, we're going to see the same that we're seeing in Brazil right now, and we're going to be a natural candidate. Mexico and Chile, again, are two bets of ours. We believe that we have the right to win in these countries. They are behind us. They are very different between themselves. They have their specific traits, but they could be an engine for growth. It's a matter of focus.

We need to focus our energy where we have the biggest upside and the biggest likelihood of conversion. Thank you, Pedro. Excellent. Thank you. Thank you, Bernardo. Our second question comes from Leonardo Sintra Itau. Please go ahead. Good morning, Bruno, Pedro, and André. Congratulations. These are impressive results. Thank you for answering our questions. I have two. First, I'd like to delve into the margin. We've been hearing that you're investing a lot to grow, especially in people and technologies. How do you see the EBITDA margin in the future when we think about company growth and higher expenditures? Also, you've been making lots of progress with the PIX transfer, and we see that the take rate is virtually zero, or it's under the consolidated take rate for the company, but you have a higher TPV.

How can we balance that, a higher TPV with a lower take rate with the EBITDA margin, with higher investments in OPEX? My second question has to do with capital allocation. You have dividends and M&A, and you were talking about a payout in December. I'd like to understand if you're going to keep 100% of dividend payout for 2025, and I'd love to understand your M&A agenda. I know there's nothing transformational here, but following up on Bernardo's questions, could you have an M&A in payments for other countries like Chile and Mexico or other countries in LATAM to try and get a shortcut to have a good integration with local payment methods? Would this make sense? Thank you. Thank you, Leonardo. These are great questions. We have three to four questions here. Let's break them down.

First, we believe that even though we have an acceleration of investments in team and development, we do not see the EBITDA margin going down. By the way, if we keep the growth rate that we want to have, it may even expand a bit. But this is not our priority because if we do that, I think it's a bad trade-off. We have lots of opportunities. If we were to work with the BIPs for the EBITDA margin in the short term, we believe that we would be letting go of more accelerated growth in the future. So it won't get worse, but it could be better. We want to make you aware of that, but we are making a conscious decision of making product and sales better so that we are able to actually mobilize more opportunities.

As I said before, this is going to work with a lower share of our CAPEX. It's not going to grow as much. So we shouldn't expect EBITDA minus CAPEX growing as much. Our EBITDA is not going to grow as many basis points percentage-wise. Now let's go to the second part of your first question. You were talking about the TPV and the take rate. Let me take a step back. I want to explain how we do pricing. We usually price the take rate in two different ways or two different segments. First, we have high value added. So this is more related to software. We have orchestrators. We have checkouts. When we offer something to our client, we have a cost for payment processing. So this is more commoditized. Usually, we have the lowest price in the market because there's no differentiator there.

This is a way to actually carve out value and to show where we are unlocking value. Looking forward, when we think about the PIX transfer, we have questions regarding how to account for that. Right now, we orchestrate PIX transfers for SEBESP, all of them. But we are not doing the math for these PIX transfers in the TPV that we see today because the TPV volume would be much higher, and this would distort the take rate break. We still don't exactly know how to tackle this metric, but we don't believe that we're going to have a very significant take rate decrease. On the other hand, I am under accounting the TPV that I'm orchestrating because if we have PIX transfers or PIX transfers with a zero margin, this is not going to add a lot to this metric.

If we go way up, we may create an additional indicator to have a bit more disclosure. But right now, with our current TPV, we see the need for a bit of segregation of high value added TPV and the other kind of TPV. With SEBESP, we're orchestrating everything from beginning to end. So if I were to add this TPV, we would have another $200 million at least in TPV in this quarter, which we haven't added because we would be distorting these results. If we did, we would have explosive TPV growth and decreasing take rate, but this is not the best way to conduct our business. So for full payment method solutions, we can't reverse these values. We can't make these figures prettier. We need to actually add better value, and then we find a way to show these numbers clearly.

This may be homework for us. Maybe we will need another indicator for this PIX transfer thing and for other things that are more commodities. Secondly, you were asking about capital allocation. We believe that there are two allocations that could be our targets for the next 12 months, and these are in line with what we have been saying in the last half of the year. We still believe that we have the opportunity to have focused M&As. If you've been keeping up with us, we never have an M&A to add to our revenue. We have M&As when we believe that by joining forces with them, we're going to dramatically accelerate growth with synergy or with virtual impact or virtuous impact. For instance, when we bought 7AZ, we wanted to use it to have joint payments.

We wanted to dramatically increase revenue per user at the endpoint and to create a virtuous cycle. This is exactly what happened. We were able to increase our revenue by a lot by integrating SaaS payments. So we have the same idea here. Yes, we do see interesting opportunities. Maybe they won't be transformational at scale, but they could be transformational when it comes to our ambition. Some of the M&As we're planning for could unlock very big markets, and then we'll keep our coherence and our vertical focus. We're going to keep on talking about this. Of course, we can't mention anything because we never know up until the last minute, but we are still excited, and we have a very strong pipeline in the short to medium-term horizons.

Given that, since the nature and format of M&As, where sometimes we don't have 100% of purchasing, or we buy a ticket, or we take a while to be in alignment, and this has an impact over time, and given that we're growing a lot in a very profitable way, we are feeling very comfortable with keeping our strong payout policy. We're still going to ratify this with the board, but the rationale is that we're going to repeat something along the lines of what we've done before. We're very comfortable. We see growth with profitability for the near future, and we have a visibility of the type of M&As that we're going to have. So we could be ambidextrous. We could offer good returns when it comes to interest on equity and dividends around 100%, which is what we've been doing so far.

It's not a commitment, but it is our intention without having very good purchases. They could be very good if they actually add to us, if they are complementary to us. I think this gives you an idea of where we're headed. Leonardo, were I able to answer your questions? Yes, very clearly. Thank you. I do have a quick follow-up, if I may. In your opening remarks, you were talking about the maturation of these clients, especially Hebvita with healthcare. When should we expect to see these results? When is Hebvita going to add to results here? First half of the year for 2026, first half of 2026? I just want to have an idea of the schedule here, and you're ramping up with this client. Sure, we always have forecasts, right?

Because we are a part of the equation, but we have to work with our clients, and we have another 10 priorities that are competing here, even though they are excited about the transformation. So we have influence on that. We don't have control over that. And we have a big deviation point here. For instance, with iDux, for many valuable reasons, we only saw the first results, and it was under 15% of its potential in Q4, even though we actually announced it a year earlier. So in this case, it took us a while to see results, and for legitimate reasons. Now, SEBESP is a counterexample. We did it in a very short period of time. It was really quick. Now, with Hebvita, and having said that, I think that at the end of the first half of 2026, we should see it.

We should see a positive impact on both accounts. Could it be earlier? Yes. Could it be later? Also, yes. But this gives you an idea of what to expect. So between closing the contract and seeing significant value, this could happen in a six-month period. With Hebvita, we've closed the contract. I think at least Q2, yeah, the second half of Q2 would be a good bet. Thank you. Bruno, we still have time for one more question. Otherwise, we could wrap this up. Thank you. Thank you, Leonardo. We have a question from the chat. What are other potential industries or sectors that Bemobi could go into in addition to healthcare? Of course, it's always a matter of balance.

We don't want to go too hard at it and tell our competitors what we're going into, but we also want to give you visibility so you know where we're headed. What we can say, and I've said this before, is that we are doing research on certain industries. We're talking to many potential clients. The exercise of doing prospecting is really good because prospection and commercial operations go hand in hand. The best way to learn about a new industry is to talk to their CEOs, to their CFOs. It is to test ideas. When we see there's a good match between what we do well and what these industries need, then we make this visible and we create anchor clients and we go from there. So we have sectors where we believe there's the same pain points where we're already helping. These are key sectors.

We have monthly bills and we are still using quote-unquote old payment methods. Maybe we haven't seen convenient leveraging for payment methods here. I'm going to give you examples. We have other types of insurance, for instance, life insurance, which is very close to health insurance. We barely looked at it. We started flirting with it a while ago. We have other very interesting sectors that sometimes are fragmented, for instance, paying for your condo bills. It's very informal, even on how to pay your bills. We have some fintechs that are very good here, but it's a very fragmented sector. How to pay for your building fees. This is not exhaustive. For instance, energy traders are a small sector when we think about regulated energy trading.

However, as this market opens up and this is scheduled between now and 2028, we're going to see traders, we're going to see good businesses gaining ground here. So whenever you have an experience whereby you're paying bills, but you don't have as good of an experience as you could have in a marketplace, in the biggest marketplace in Latin America, then there's opportunity for us. Of course, there's caveats. You have to see scale, you have to see a go-to-market, you have to see fragmentation, you have challenges for every good sector. So symmetry is not enough, but we need to see if go-to-market and scalability work. Now, from a country standpoint, as I said, we're going to be investing more in our presence in Chile, not only commercially speaking, but we want to have an astonishing product like we have in Brazil.

In Mexico too, but we don't want to invent a new sector. We want to go into sectors that we already know and that we have familiarity with. We don't want to do new country, new sector. We want to do new country, old sector. We also have some fully new vertical sectors, but I'm going to wait another quarter to talk about this because it's not the time yet. I just want to say that the payment market is huge. When it comes to picking segments and subsegments, we need to make sure that we do not get into a commodity fight and we're able to generate value. I think it's really good to say this instead of saying that we're just going into a new sector because it's big. As we make progress, we're going to be discussing this with you. Thank you, Bruno.

I think this is enough Bemobi for a day. Great. We no longer have questions. Please go ahead. Excellent. We're very happy. This was an excellent quarter. We were balanced. We had a focus on payments, and it was one of these quarters where everything is in balance. It's not real life, right? Sometimes we have lots more variation. But I would say that our direction is good. I'm going to close out by being optimistic. It looks like the things we're betting on have enough traction, and in the near future, we don't see this changing. Let's move forward. Thank you for believing Bemobi. Enjoy your day.

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