Earnings call transcript: Champion Iron Q1 2026 results miss expectations

Champion Iron Ltd reported its Q1 FY2026 earnings, revealing revenues of $390 million, which fell short of forecasts. The company’s earnings per share (EPS) also missed expectations, coming in at $0.0557 compared to the anticipated $0.069. This earnings miss led to a pre-market stock decline of 1.23%, with shares trading at $4.80. According to InvestingPro analysis, the stock currently trades at a P/E ratio of 23.46, and their Fair Value model suggests the stock is slightly undervalued. For comprehensive valuation insights and more metrics, check out the Most Undervalued Stocks list on InvestingPro.

Key Takeaways

• Champion Iron’s revenue and EPS both missed analyst expectations.
• The stock saw a 1.23% decline in pre-market trading following the earnings release.
• Operational challenges, including ore hardness and lower head grade, impacted production.

Company Performance

Champion Iron’s performance this quarter was marked by operational hurdles that affected production volumes. The company produced 3.5 million tons of iron ore, slightly below its target, due to issues such as ore hardness and a temporary shutdown by Hydro Quebec. Despite these challenges, the company increased its cash position significantly, from $117 million to $176 million.

Financial Highlights

• Revenue: $390 million, down from the forecasted $474.58 million.
• Earnings per share: $0.0557, below the expected $0.069.
• EBITDA: Just under $60 million.
• Cash Position: Increased to $176 million from $117 million.

Earnings vs. Forecast

Champion Iron reported an EPS of $0.0557, missing the forecast of $0.069 by 19.28%. Revenue also fell short by 8.38%, coming in at $390 million against a forecast of $474.58 million. This marks a significant deviation from expectations and reflects the operational challenges faced during the quarter.

Market Reaction

Following the earnings announcement, Champion Iron’s stock dropped by 1.23% in pre-market trading. While the stock has shown recent volatility, InvestingPro data reveals a strong 54.72% return over the past year, despite 5 analysts recently revising their earnings expectations downward. The stock price, now at $4.80, remains closer to its 52-week low of $3.895 than its high of $7.57, indicating investor concern over the earnings miss and operational issues.

Outlook & Guidance

Looking forward, Champion Iron aims to complete its flotation plant by the end of 2025, with first sales targeted in North Africa and the Middle East. The company expects to sign its first DRPF contract by late 2025 or early 2026, potentially improving future revenue streams. InvestingPro analysis indicates the company has been profitable over the last twelve months with a gross profit margin of 25.47%, suggesting a solid foundation for future growth. Get deeper insights into Champion Iron’s financial health and growth prospects with the comprehensive Pro Research Report, available exclusively on InvestingPro.

Executive Commentary

CEO David Cattaford highlighted the company’s strategic shift towards high-grade iron ore products, stating, "We’re transitioning our product to one of the only areas where there’s increasing demand." He also emphasized cost reduction strategies through higher throughput and reducing exposure to the P65 index.

Risks and Challenges

• Ore Hardness: Continued challenges with ore hardness could impact production efficiency.
• Market Prices: Fluctuations in iron ore prices and the P65 index may affect profitability.
• Project Delays: Any delay in the flotation plant’s completion could impact future sales targets.

Q&A

During the earnings call, analysts inquired about the company’s stockpile management and the impact of ore hardness on costs. Management confirmed that rail capacity could exceed 16 million tons annually, highlighting a strategic focus on expanding the DRPF market.

Full transcript - Champion Iron Ltd (CIA) Q1 2026:

Conference Operator: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to Champion’s Q1 Results of the Financial Year twenty twenty six Conference Call. At this time, all lines are in listen only mode. Following the presentation, we will conduct a question and answer session. This call is being recorded on Wednesday, 07/30/2025. I would now like to turn the conference over to Michael Marcotte.

Please go ahead.

Michael Marcotte, Investor Relations, Champion Iron: Thank you, operator, and thank you everyone for joining us to discuss our results today. Before I turn it over to David, our CEO for the presentation, I’d like to remind you that throughout this presentation, we’ll be making forward looking statements. If you’d like to read more about our forward looking statements, risks and assumptions, you can visit our MD and A which is available on our website at championiron.com. I’d also like to remind people that our presentation to be used on the webcast is also available on our website under the Investor tab. Joining me here today is David Cattaford, our CEO, who is going do the formal presentation, our COO, Alexandre Belot and our CFO, Donald Tramble.

With that, I’ll turn it over to David.

David Cattaford, CEO, Champion Iron: Thanks, Michael. Thanks everyone for being here today. So very happy to be able to present the fiscal year twenty twenty six first quarter results. So if we look in terms of the quarter, I think two of the main highlights were definitely the fact that we’ve managed to rail and haul about 3,800,000 tons dry, so close to 4,000,000 tons wet of material on our rail. So a very big positive for us during the quarter.

Also managed with a more challenging quarter to be able to realize an EPS of $05 per share. If we look at community governance and sustainability, again, continuing to work with our First Nations partners and local communities, mainly in Quebec. Very happy also to have received a prize from the Quebec Mining Association for one of the projects that we’ve been doing with the First Nations community, which is an immersion project that we’ve done with some of our employees to be able to go visit First Nations community and be fully immersed in the actual community. In terms of our operational financial results, so one of the elements that was a bit underwhelming during the quarter is definitely our production, so around 3,500,000 tons that were produced during the quarter. Main elements that impacted us have been the ore hardness, so we’ve seen that last quarter and we’re seeing it again.

The good news is that we seem to have identified the element that is causing it, but if you combine the ore hardness and the lower head grade during the quarter, well that definitely reduced our throughput of concentrate and also when we have ore that’s hard, well it typically creates more fines within the mill and that material, the fines are more difficult to recover, so we see a double impact throughput and iron ore recovery. So those are the main elements that have impacted us. On top of that, we did have a hydro Quebec shutdown of about two days, so that impacted our production as well. If you combine the ore hardness with the Hydro Quebec shutdown, we’re talking roughly of about 300,000 tons during the quarter, so that would have brought our production closer to 3.8. If we look at one of the highlights during the quarter, it’s the fact that we did move about 440,000 tons from the stockpile, bringing our stockpile down to about 2,100,000 tons during the quarter.

We look at the rail operation, as we mentioned, had a run rate of roughly about 4,000,000 tons during the quarter, so net positive. Obviously, this will have a small impact in the next quarter. As you might remember, every September there’s a significant shutdown on the rail from the rail operator, roughly usually between ten to twelve days where they shut down the rail to do summer maintenance on the rail facilities. In terms of the ore hardness, so if we look at our mining sequence and what impacted us, so if you look on the map here, you can see the south of what we call Pignac or Center Pit. We have an extension, a small zone that we added in our reserves a few years ago when we updated our mine plan.

We thought this material would be actually positive for us and would allow us to lower our operating cost because as you can see on the map, it’s much closer to our waste dumps. So we did feel that there was a potential advantage because the hauling was so short for the strip material from that zone. Unfortunately, what we saw is that the material from the zone is much harder and if you look at the last quarter, we were mining roughly about 12% of our blend into that area. So if you account for the fact that this material has reacted in a more difficult way, what typically happens at our site is that the mill gets choked up and gets stuck with this type of material and we don’t have any grinding media that’s hard enough to be able to remove it. So what we’re looking to do in the second half of this year, financial year, is to be able to reduce the amount of tons that come from the zone and get closer eventually gradually down to the about 4% of ore blend, which is the average of this material over the life of mine.

So we were mining a little bit more aggressively in that zone because we did think this would be positive, but because we’ve seen that this material is more difficult, we’ll definitely cut it back down in the second half of this year. In terms of our mining operations, I do think that there’s quite a lot of positives. If you look at how the mine has performed, record combined ore and waste mined and hauled in the period. So all the new mining equipment and the work that we’re doing at the mine to be able to optimize our operations has been paying off. Unfortunately, haven’t seen it in the results because of the ore hardness and the difficulty to be able to process the material, but realistically, I think the mine is very healthy and we’ve proven this in the last quarter.

If we look at the industry, so the iron ore or the P65 material declined in the past quarter. We since have seen that recover, so we do see some positive signs in terms of iron ore pricing. We have seen the spread for the high grade versus low grade change as well, so we have seen the spread go from around $9 to $14 per ton, so showing signs that the high grade is coming back desired as material and hopefully with steel margins that are improving in China, we should be able to see that continuing to improve in the near future. When you look at the freight, freight was also positive for us as the C3 index decreased slightly and our shipping costs reduced during the quarter. If we look at the iron ore price, well definitely that’s what impacted us in terms of provisional price adjustment, so we had a negative of about US20 million dollars per ton or roughly about US5 dollars per ton.

That’s mainly due to the fact that at the end of last quarter, on the March 31, we expected a settlement price of about $111 per ton but managed to realize about $103 so that impacted us negatively. This might turn the other side in the next quarter because at the June, well, we expected to have our 2,500,000 tons on the water to settle at around $100 ton and since then we have seen the iron ore price increase. So there is a potential for us to have a positive provisional price adjustment. In terms of realized price, when we look at freight provisional price adjustments and the FX conversion, we realized net price of around 102 Canadian dollars per ton. If we look at our cash costs, definitely one element that’s a bit underwhelming during the quarter.

Realistically, if we look at our 82 Canadian dollars per ton delivered in the vessel, the two main elements that impacted us was the use of stockpiled material and the ore hardness. If we look at the ore hardness reducing our throughput and reducing our iron ore recovery, the total volume effect during the quarter has been roughly about $4 per ton. So if we would have managed to hit a more stable production target, we would have been able to reduce those costs by reducing the fixed cost by about $4 per ton. The other impact has been from using stockpiled material. So as you know, when we use stockpiled material, what we have to account for the fact that it was hauled to the stockpiles and the fact that we’re hauling material from stockpiles to the load out area, so that is reflected on the cost of those tons and if you look at the advantage of us bringing so many tons from the stockpile, 440,000 tons, definite positive in terms of our cash, but a negative in terms of our operating cost for the quarter.

So if you account for the volume effect and for the inventory effect, well combining those is roughly about $8 per ton, so that would have reduced our operating costs to mid seventies. In terms of financial highlights, as we’ve mentioned on the first slide, around $390,000,000 of revenues, EBITDA just shy of $60,000,000 and an EPS of about 5¢ per share. In terms of cash change during the quarter, so we had a few positives, one being the fact that the case exercised their warrants bringing in roughly around $37,000,000 so they did that ahead of the expiration date showing their positive view on the company today. So if we look at our cash variation during the quarter, from around $117,000,000 to just over $176,000,000 during the quarter. In terms of our balance sheet, so a very healthy position to allow us to finalize the flotation plant and still benefiting from roughly around 2,100,000 tons of stockpile material that we should be able to continue to haul down in the coming quarters.

One element that we delivered post quarter was the high yield bond that we’ve put in place. So we had a successful first time issue and very happy with the result. Thought process, as you know, next year we had to start to repay the capital on our existing term loans, so we definitely wanted to have a more permanent structure in place. We had also drawn down from the revolving facility mainly to build a flotation plant, so we wanted to be able to reimburse the revolving facility. So all in all, we had about US335 million dollars to reimburse and we secured a note of about US500 million dollars to be able to increase our liquidity, but at the same time, repay all of our other debts.

Turning to the flotation plant, as you probably know, here in Quebec now we’re on construction vacation, the teams are coming back next week to be able to do the finalizing steps to be able to deliver our plant before the end of this calendar year. So what’s the main targets now is doing all the piping at site, finalizing the connection of the various equipments, doing the electrical work, so quite a lot of work to be able to finalize the plant, but we’re still comfortable in saying that we’ll be able to deliver the project by the end of this year and be able to deliver the project within the $470,000,000 budget. So if you remember, when we did the phase two construction, piping was one of the elements that was a bit more complex in the region. There’s quite a lot of projects here in Quebec that are currently working on piping mainly in the battery factories that they’re building in South Of Quebec, but we still feel confident we’ll be able to reach our target of December this year to be able to finalize the various remaining parts of the project. In terms of negotiating with our various clients, so continuing to advance those negotiations, we still feel comfortable in saying that our first sales are going to be in North Africa and Middle East.

We do believe that’s the first market that will be able to materialize the best gains for our material. Eventually, we want to be able to sell tons into Europe as well. We have seen various companies in Europe continue their transition towards lower CO2 intensity steel, even if we see quite a lot of negative output in terms of steel news out of Europe, we still see various companies mainly out of Germany that are continuing their transition to electric arc furnaces and DRI facilities. So even if we do expect to start selling tons into The Middle East and North Africa, I do think that in the near future we’ll be able to also sell tons into Europe. We expect to sign our first contract by the end of this calendar year or beginning of next calendar year to be able to be ready for call it April or May of next year, while we’re going to be in a position to start selling full cargoes of this DRPF material.

One other big highlight that we’ve just announced is us entering into a definitive framework agreement with Nippon Steel and Sojuts, so very positive signing ceremony that we did last week. We had executives from Nippon Steel and Sojuts visit our site but also fly to CAMI, so very positive to have two strong partners to be able to help us to advance the next steps of CAMI. Just to remind the next steps, what we’re on right now is to finalize the feasibility study to confirm the numbers from our pre feasibility study and potentially improve certain areas and also do the permit for the modified project of CAMI. So as you remember, when you look at the CAMI project, we’ve increased the volume compared to the previous feasibility studies and also significantly improved the grade of our material to be able to counter what we’re pretty much seeing in other jurisdictions where the quality is going down, we actually see our material and our niche to be able to produce the highest grade types of material in the world. Just turning to ore quality, so one of the main elements that we’ve been flagged by a lot of our clients is the fact that the Australian majors quality has declined over the past decade, contaminants have increased by about 12%, so we do see our type of material as being something that will be able to counter those reduction in grades and be able to benefit us or help us benefit from higher premiums in the near future.

So with that being said, I’d like to turn it over to the Q and A portion of the call to be able to respond to any questions you might have.

Conference Operator: Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question and answer session. Should you have a question, please press the star key followed by the number one on your touch tone phone. You will hear a prompt that your hand has been raised. Should you wish to decline from the polling process, please press the star key followed by the number two.

Your first question comes from Alexander Pierce from BMO. Please go ahead.

Alexander Pierce, Analyst, BMO: Great. Morning, David and team. So great to see the shipment volumes pick up meaningfully this quarter. As you mentioned, costs were higher sequentially though. And you flagged in your comments that you expect to get through the harder ore by the second half of this year, which presumably should help with costs.

But does this also mean that the strip ratio should come down too in the second half of the year? Or do you need to continue higher strip as you look to get access to that softer ore? And then what is the impact to cash costs associated with that strip? And then second question, just can you remind us what level of stockpile you’re looking to get to at site eventually? Thanks.

David Cattaford, CEO, Champion Iron: Yeah, thanks for the question. If we look at the second part, so when we look at the way that we’ve always operated Bloom Lake, the target is to have zero inventory, we’ve never been able to get to that sort of zero level because we always keep some stockpiled material if there’s issues with the train because we don’t want to stop producing. We’ve seen levels hover between, call it 75,000 tons to about 250,000 tons. That’s a level where we feel comfortable. We typically like to destock or to do as big of a push right before winter to make sure that our stockpiling facilities right beside the site or right beside the load out are free for that period, but I wouldn’t expect in the future, once we’ve cleared the stockpile material that we’ve had to haul away from the load out area, well, I don’t expect us to go back there in the future.

Now, when we look in terms of stripping in the future, the strip ratio is in a territory that we should be at for the life of mine, so the main reduction in cost is really going to be due to the higher throughput because it dilutes down our fixed cost. So it’s not necessarily a stripping portion that is going to help us, it’s really the fact that the ore is much harder right now and has reduced our throughput and reduced our recovery, but in the future what’s going help us to reduce our cost is going to be to have, I’d say, more typical ore, what we’ve seen in the past compared to what we’re seeing in the small zone in the south of the center pit.

Alexander Pierce, Analyst, BMO: So just to confirm then, you don’t really need to see any particular change in strip to get access to the softer ore to get through this harder ore portion?

David Cattaford, CEO, Champion Iron: Yeah, correct. So, I see it more as typical ore, which we’ve had for the past seven years, and then this more hard ore that is in this specific location, which is the south of the center pit, but we don’t need to strip more to access other ore. We really honestly thought it was an opportunity for us to lower cost because again, when you look at the map, it’s so close to the waste dumps, we thought it would reduce our cost, but it really countered because of the hardness of this material.

Alexander Pierce, Analyst, BMO: Thanks, David.

Conference Operator: Our next question comes from Orest Wowkodaw of Scotiabank. Please go ahead.

Orest Wowkodaw, Analyst, Scotiabank: Hi, good morning. Just as a follow-up, sorry, I’m not quite clear. The plan to reduce the contribution from the harbor or area, is that already happening? Or is that more likely are you basically still planning to mine through that the rest of this year so we don’t really see, expect the improvement next year? I’m not clear on when that switch is supposed to happen.

David Cattaford, CEO, Champion Iron: Yeah, so what we’ve mentioned in the, if you go to slide eight, is really the fact that second half of this financial year is when we’re going to start to decline the percentage from that zone, so we do expect next quarter to be similar to where we’re at now. We are working on ways to potentially try to improve the production even with this type of ore, but the gradual reduction of this type of material is going to be more in the second half of this year. We do benefit from the stockpile material to be able to counter on the sales side, but I expect middle of this year to be able to start reducing the percentage from that zones.

Orest Wowkodaw, Analyst, Scotiabank: Okay, so still a couple of quarters. And then on the cost front, you talked about the cash cost being impacted by, I believe, the stockpiles in terms of a higher percentage of the contribution. Can you quantify that for us? Like of the $81.9 a ton cost, like how much of that is attributed to, I guess, rehandling costs and I believe it’s disclosed higher inventory costs for that material?

David Cattaford, CEO, Champion Iron: Yeah, so the way that we view it, there’s roughly, if you look at the quarter, about $4 per ton that is associated to higher inventory costs, so that’s mainly due to the fact of the material that was hauled to those stockpiles, so accounted for at a higher price, and then when we bring down the material, it’s sort of double increased cost. So that’s where you see roughly about $4 per ton associated to inventory cost. Then when you look at the ore hardness, the total volume effect has been roughly about $4 per ton as well. If we account only for, let’s say, the harder ore, what has been the impact from that and the lower recovery? Well, that is mainly due to or associated to about $3 per ton.

So or hardness zone or the about $3 per ton, $4 for the total volume portion, so that includes that $3. And then when you look at inventory effect, about $4.

Orest Wowkodaw, Analyst, Scotiabank: Okay. So is it fair to assume then costs are likely gonna remain elevated for the next couple of quarters from a combination of these two factors?

David Cattaford, CEO, Champion Iron: Well, long as we bring material down from the stockpile, that’s definitely going to impact us in terms of cash cost. I mean, there is a net positive in terms of cash because we’ve already paid for most of the operating costs associated to that, but in terms of the actual cash cost, we’ll see that a little bit more elevated as we bring down tons from that stockpile. For the volume effect, what we would expect come second half of this year to start seeing that portion decline in terms of cost impact. So we do see volume effect improving in the near future.

Orest Wowkodaw, Analyst, Scotiabank: Okay. Thanks so much.

Conference Operator: Your next question comes from Fidor Shabalin from B. Riley Securities. Please go ahead.

Fidor Shabalin, Analyst, B. Riley Securities: Good morning. Thank you, operator, and good morning, everyone. David, you reduced volumes of iron ore concentrate sold under long term sales contracts to retain a greater proportion of your ore concentrate for the short term and spot markets. So is it fair to assume this trend will continue in future if iron ore pricing remains where it is now?

David Cattaford, CEO, Champion Iron: So right now, when we look at our strategy for sales, so we have most of the phase one tons that are allocated on long term contracts and pretty much everything from phase two that is more spot based because in just a few months, we’re gonna deliver our plant, our flotation plant and produce 69% material. So our intent in the near future is to be able to allocate most of those tons from the flotation plant on longer term contracts, so that’s gonna leave very limited tons associated to the spot market.

Fidor Shabalin, Analyst, B. Riley Securities: Thank you. And my second one is on DRPF. Can you talk about where you are in negotiations regarding your future products from the project? And who are the parties involved in these talks to the extent you can share, of course? And any changes to the expected premium over P65 index estimate?

If I remember correctly, it was roughly $20 per ton?

David Cattaford, CEO, Champion Iron: Yeah, what’s important for us is really to continue our negotiation with Africans and with the Middle East steel producers, so that hasn’t changed in terms of our strategy, so we’re advancing that portion, spending quite a lot of time in that region to make sure that we understand which facilities are being delivered, which are the best ones where we can sell our material and benefit from Capesize vessels entering those ports, and when we look at potential premiums, our real intent is to be able to link our contracts to the Doctor pellet. That’s been our main focus for the past years because we want to reduce our exposure to the P65 index as we potentially see more volume coming in the high grade market with the delivery of the Simandou project. So when we look at the way that we’re structuring our contracts, it’s really to link our product to the Doctor pellet. So that’s advancing well, we should be in a position either at the end of this calendar year or beginning of next calendar year to be able to sign our first contract.

Fidor Shabalin, Analyst, B. Riley Securities: Thank you very much, David and team, for color and continue. Best of luck.

David Cattaford, CEO, Champion Iron: Thank you.

Conference Operator: Your next question comes from Stefan Ioannou of Cormark Securities. Please go ahead.

Stefan Ioannou, Analyst, Cormark Securities: Yeah. Thanks, guys. I know in previous calls, we sort of talked about just the capacity of the rail. I just put another quarter behind you and I know it varies quarter to quarter given weather and scheduled maintenance but that 3,800 tons that you got down the rail this past quarter is that a reasonable proxy you think going forward for you’re comfortable with getting down that rail or do you think it could get higher than that?

David Cattaford, CEO, Champion Iron: Yeah, it can definitely get higher than that. When we look at last quarter though, I mean, yes, we had 3,800,000 tons but that’s dry tons And when we haul tons, we have to measure it on the wet portion because we’re also moving the water. So if you look at the run rate during the quarter, we were closer to 4,000,000 tons, which gives about a run rate of 16,000,000 tons. We do still think there’s room to improve. Again, actual infrastructure is not the issue, it’s really the operations and we definitely have potentials to be able to continue to increase that.

Just as an example, what we’re doing now is we’re sharing the railcars with the rail operator, allowing us to have a better flexibility, so a lot of these small elements that we’re adding to be able to improve the throughput because we want to be able to go beyond that 16,000,000 ton run rate in the future.

Stefan Ioannou, Analyst, Cormark Securities: I don’t want put numbers in your mouth but if we were to say like maybe 16,000,000 dry tons on an annual basis, is that something that’s kind of in the reasonable ballpark?

David Cattaford, CEO, Champion Iron: We’re looking to develop the CAMI project in the future, so that rail is gonna have to be able to process another 9,000,000 tons. I don’t think the 16,000,000 tons dry or wet is the limit. We need to work together to be able to improve the throughput on that rail. And again, if you go back thirty years, that rail was delivering almost twice the amount of tons that we’re seeing now. So it’s not an infrastructure issue, we just need to get back to the levels that it was operating in the past.

Stefan Ioannou, Analyst, Cormark Securities: Got it. Okay, great. Thanks very much, guys.

David Cattaford, CEO, Champion Iron: Thank you, Stephane.

Conference Operator: There are no further questions at this time. I will now turn the call over to David Cattaford. Please continue.

David Cattaford, CEO, Champion Iron: Yes. Thanks, everyone, for being on the call. When you look at the last few quarters, we did have some challenges on the production side, on the cost side, definitely something that we’re focusing on the whole team to be able to get back to the levels of production that we’ve always delivered in the past. I mean, we’ve had a great seven years behind us. The phase two has been a bit more challenging when you combine the logistics and a few outside events, but a few inside events as well, but we still have a great team that’s going to be able to mitigate through those elements in the coming quarters and I think we’ll be able to get back to the operational excellence that we had in the past.

In terms of the future, I still think your company is in a great spot because we’re transitioning our product to one of the only areas that there’s increasing demand and that we do see increased premiums in the future, which is the Doctor grade. I know there’s a lot of noise associated to that and sometimes some skepticism on what kind of premiums we’ll be able to get, but we’re doing the right work to be able to align ourselves with the right partners to benefit from lower freight costs and also benefit from the significant premiums that this type of material and the scarceness of this material will bring. And again, very proud of us delivering a project with two of the great companies of this world, Sogits and Nippon Steel, and you can imagine that to be able to get such good partners to come in to our company on a greenfield project like CAMI really shows the strength of our team and the trust that these various partners have and very happy to be able to progress the next steps, so the permitting and the feasibility study to be in a position in a few years to fully benefit from the Doctor premiums that we’re going to see once this market starts getting more mature.

So again, thanks a lot for your support and looking forward to be able to update you at the next quarter.

Conference Operator: Ladies and gentlemen, that concludes today’s conference call. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.

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