Earnings call transcript: Natura Q3 2025 reveals significant earnings miss

Natura & Co SA reported disappointing third-quarter results for 2025, missing both earnings and revenue forecasts. The company's EPS came in at $0.1301, below the expected $0.1483, marking a negative surprise of 12.27%. Revenue also fell short, reaching $5.19 billion against a forecast of $6.74 billion, a 23% miss. Despite these results, the stock remained stable at a closing price of $9.20, reflecting investor caution amid broader market concerns.

Key Takeaways

• Natura's EPS and revenue significantly missed forecasts, with a 12.27% and 23% shortfall, respectively.
• The company is facing macroeconomic challenges in Brazil, affecting its performance.
• A strong innovation pipeline and digitalization projects are expected to drive future growth.
• The Avon brand continues to struggle, impacting Natura's market positioning.

Company Performance

Natura's overall performance in Q3 2025 was weaker than anticipated, with a consolidated revenue decline of 3.8% in constant currency and 13.1% in BRL. The recurring EBITDA margin fell by 350 basis points year-over-year, and net income from continued operations showed a loss of BRL 119 million, compared to a profit of BRL 301 million in the same period last year. Despite these setbacks, the company maintained stable net debt at $4 billion.

Financial Highlights

• Revenue: $5.19 billion, a 23% miss from the forecast
• Earnings per share: $0.1301, a 12.27% miss from the forecast
• Net income from continued operations: Loss of BRL 119 million
• Free cash flow for 9 months: BRL 301 million, a reduction of BRL 81 million YoY

Earnings vs. Forecast

Natura's actual EPS of $0.1301 was below the forecasted $0.1483, resulting in a 12.27% negative surprise. Revenue also fell short, with actual figures at $5.19 billion versus the expected $6.74 billion, a 23% miss. This significant deviation from expectations highlights the challenges the company is currently facing.

Market Reaction

The stock price of Natura remained unchanged at $9.20 following the earnings announcement, indicating investor caution. Trading near its 52-week low of $8.06, the market appears to be factoring in the disappointing results and broader economic concerns.

Outlook & Guidance

Looking forward, Natura aims to expand its recurring EBITDA margin in 2025 and improve it in Q4 2025. The company is targeting leverage between 1-1.2x by year-end and is focused on sustainable growth and shareholder returns in 2026. The Avon brand relaunch and ongoing digitalization projects are expected to contribute to future growth.

Executive Commentary

CEO João Paulo Ferreira expressed dissatisfaction with the revenue performance, stating, "We are not satisfied with our revenue performance in the region." CFO Sílvia Villas-Boas also noted, "This quarter has disappointed, frustrated our expectations." Ferreira further emphasized the company's future focus: "Starting in 2026, once the transformation cycle is complete, our focus will shift towards sustainable growth and delivering returns to our shareholders."

Risks and Challenges

• Macroeconomic slowdown in Brazil, affecting consumer spending and overall performance.
• Ongoing struggles with the Avon brand, impacting market positioning and growth.
• Increased leverage, with a ratio rising from 2.18x to 2.53x, posing financial risks.
• Flat to slightly negative volumes in discretionary categories, reflecting market challenges.

Q&A

During the earnings call, analysts inquired about the potential for consultant network growth, pricing strategies, and the Avon brand relaunch strategy. Executives addressed macroeconomic challenges in Brazil and Argentina, emphasizing their focus on structural efficiency and sustainable growth initiatives.

Full transcript - Natura & Co SA (NATU3) Q3 2025:

João Paulo Ferreira, CEO, Natura: Welcome to Natura's third quarter 2025 earnings call. We would like to remind everyone that simultaneous interpretation is available on the platform. To use this feature, click the interpretation icon, the globe symbol at the bottom of your screen, and select your preferred language, either Portuguese or English. If you're listening to the English audio, you can mute the Portuguese channel by selecting Mute Original Audio. Joining us today are Mr. João Paulo Ferreira, our CEO, and Sílvia Villas-Boas, our CFO. The presentation we'll be referring to during today's call is already available on our investor relations website. On our hand, thanks over to Mr. João Paulo Ferreira. Mr. Ferreira, you may proceed, sir. Good morning, everyone. I'd like to start today's call by acknowledging our weak performance this quarter.

The results were disappointing, falling short of expectations both in sales and profitability, even though part of the challenges we faced were deliberate and planned. The main challenges we faced this quarter were, first, G&A. The drop in revenue put pressure on our margins, and while selling expenses were down, total G&A spending stayed above last year's level, driven by the structural investments we have been making. We decided to keep these strategic investments moving forward, including the new consultant network online store, as the benefits expected in 2026 are significant. The second challenge was the macroeconomic slowdown, especially in Brazil, where consumer spending was hit harder than we had anticipated. We are not satisfied with our revenue performance in the region. The adjustments we made to our portfolio were not enough to capture emerging demand trends, largely because the Avon brand was not yet ready to respond.

That brand could have benefited from the current scenario. Speaking of Avon, I'd like to mention the third challenge. We've continued to see revenue decline for the brand, driven by its slow pace of innovation and new product launches. In the meantime, while we are preparing for its relaunch in the first half of 2026. Finally, challenge number four, they have to do with the final impacts of wave two, especially in Argentina. This quarter, the main operational challenges came from Argentina, as the major commercial changes affected consultants coming from the Avon network more than we had anticipated. This led to a real drop in revenue in the country, made worse by the unfavorable FX movements. Mexico also saw a decline in revenue, though it continued to show steady month-over-month improvements.

Finally, in Brazil, the closure of the Interlagos plant caused temporary disruptions in Avon product availability, impacting sales. Despite these challenges, we're confident we'll see progress in the coming quarters. Our business in Mexico is already showing signs of recovery, and Argentina is on track to stabilize by early 2026. In addition, we're moving ahead with structural efficiency initiatives made possible by the post-wave two simplifications and harmonization. As a result, we reaffirm our commitment to expanding recurring EBITDA margin in full year or fiscal year 2025 versus a full fiscal year 2024, which should translate into stronger profitability as early as Q4 2025. Lastly, our corporate streamlining efforts advanced with the sale of Avon Central America and Dominican Republic and the signing of the agreement of the sale of Avon International.

Starting in 2026, once the transformation cycle is complete, our focus will shift towards sustainable growth and delivering returns to our shareholders. I'll now hand things over to Ms. Sílvia Villas-Boas, who will walk you through the details of our financial performance for the quarter.

Sílvia Villas-Boas, CFO, Natura: Thank you, JP. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for coming. Before going into the detailed financial results, I would like to emphasize two essential points that JP has already mentioned. First, this quarter has disappointed, frustrated our expectations. Later on, I will give you more details about it, why. Second, the point regarding corporate simplifications. They are extremely relevant to the company, but they do end up making the comparability of our financial statements very difficult. For that reason, we have included a pro forma in the earnings release to facilitate the analysis. In this presentation, as well as in the release and the supporting Excel available in the investor relations website, we have already provided adjusted and comparable basis. This means that we show the numbers for 2024 and 2025, already excluding Avon International and Avon Card.

In addition, we consider the results reported by the holding company both in 2024 as well as in the first half of 2025. Only the third quarter of this year already fully reflects the results of Natura Cosméticos after the merger of the holding on July the 1st. We know that these adjustments have been recurrent and make the analysis more challenging, but as I said, they are important steps in simplifying, and they're close to the end. With the conclusion of wave two, we're only missing now the sale of Avon International and Russia. Another important point, as agreed, this quarter, the release contains a new disclosure of information we presented during Natura Day. This includes the opening of the operational income statement for Brazilian Hispana, in addition to other indicators that will facilitate the understanding of the business and the monitoring of the execution of strategy.

After analyzing the new openings, we rely on your feedback to continue evolving. Now, let's move on to slide number five to detail revenue performance in Brazil. In the third quarter, Brazil, in the consolidated period, had a revenue drop of 3.7% year over year. When we look at the brands, Natura Brazil posted a flat revenue versus the same period last year, but it's important to note the sharp slowdown from the low double-digit growth we recorded in Q2 this year in the Natura brand. This movement mainly reflects the slowdown in consumption that affected the region from June onwards, as we have mentioned before, impacting our performance. Avon Brazil recorded a drop of 17.3% in the quarter.

This result was influenced by three main factors: the adverse macroeconomic scenario impacting purchasing power, the absence of recent innovations in portfolio, a point we have reiterated as the brand prepares for the relaunch scheduled for the first half of 2026, which will bring a renewed portfolio aligned with a new positioning, and due to temporary operational impacts resulting from the closure of the Interlagos plant completed in October, all production was migrated to Cajamar, which impacted the availability of products. Our inventories are in the process of being rebalanced to reverse the last operational impact, which impacted the Avon brand in Brazil. The home and style category fell 9% in line with Q1 25, but below Q2 25, which had been driven by an optimistic campaign in the opportunistic campaign in the category.

Regarding the channel's performance, it's important to emphasize the reduction in the number of consultants and their productivity is concentrated in the less productive consultants who are more sensitive to credit restrictions. The most productive consultants continue to grow year over year. Finally, regarding the non-VD channels, both the digital channel and the retail channel continue to grow at a healthy pace, but still with low penetration in total revenue, emphasizing their role as important levers for the future growth. Moving on now to slide number six, which details Brazil's profitability. We can see in the left column of the chart that we went from a recurring EBITDA margin of 23.1% in Q3 2024 to 16.2% in this third quarter. The decline is mainly explained by the deleveraging of G&A, impacted by the market slowdown and maintenance of strategic investments.

These investments include the project of new integrated planning, which we mentioned frequently on Natura Day, a very important project which will allow for greater demand accuracy to inventory efficiency, digitization tools to improve the journey both for customers as well as consultants, and investments in innovation, which includes the relaunch of the Avon brand, which will take place in the first half of 2026, which brings us exactly to JP's point. These investments that were already underway are fundamental levers to support growth and results from 2026 on, and therefore we made the decision not to stop these projects. It's worth mentioning that the initial setup and cost for these projects are concentrated in our main market, which is Brazil, impacting G&A. These very same projects will subsequently be implemented in Hispana at a substantially lower cost than in Brazil.

In addition, we had a drop in gross margin of 300 basis points year over year, as shown in the second column of the slide. This margin, however, remains at a healthy level, and the drop is mostly explained by the strong basis for comparison. As evidence that this gross margin is healthy, figures for the first half of 2025 in Brazil showed a gross margin at levels close to this quarter, but with an EBITDA margin around 21%, reflecting a greater expense efficiency in a period of strong revenue growth. However, we are displeased with this quarter's results, and we need to make our company simpler and more efficient. The sharp slowdown we have experienced has made it even more urgent to anticipate structural actions to reduce expenses, which will lead us to less dependency on the macro scenario and a more agile and efficient organization.

Now, moving on to slide number seven, let's analyze Hispana's performance. The region posted a revenue drop of 3.9% in constant currency and 24.9% in BRL. Excluding Argentina, the drop in constant currency was 1.6%, which measures the impact we had in the region due to integration made in July. The Natura brand in the region grew 12.3% in constant currency, but showed a drop of 12.2% in BRL, greatly impacted by the adjustment of hyperinflation. In addition, wave two and general slowdown in consumption in the country brought more pressure to revenue. However, when we look at the performance of Hispana, excluding Argentina, we see the Natura brand growing in high single digits in constant currency. This represents an acceleration when compared to the low digits we had presented in the second quarter of 2025.

This acceleration is explained by Mexico's performance, which showed sequential operational improvements each month in Q3 until revenue stabilization year on year in September. Other countries maintained a good performance presented in the first half of the year. Moving on to the Avon brand, revenue fell 27.2% in constant currency and 41.9% in BRL, also impacted by hyper and Natura impacted by the integration in Argentina in July and slowdown in consumption in the country. In addition, Avon has also been pressured by the total migration of the physical magazine to a hardcover to digital distribution. This, which happened in June, impacted the third quarter of 2025. Although to a lesser extent than Natura, Avon showed a sign of recovery in performance, excluding Argentina, reducing its decline in the quarter to 15.4% in constant currency versus 20.5% decline recorded in Q2 2025.

Finally, the Home and Style category also had a strong impact from integration in Argentina and continues to be under pressure by the integration in Mexico, where it is more relevant. The category recorded a drop of 35.9% in constant currency, 48.7% in BRL. The channel's decline after wave two, along with trade adjustments in the integration process, led to this sharp decline. Now, moving on to slide number eight, in terms of profitability, Hispana presented an EBITDA margin of 4.5% in the third quarter of this year, implying a drop of 100 basis points year over year, as shown in the chart. This performance is the result of opposing forces. The gross margin benefited from the accounting effect of hyperinflation in Argentina, which, on the other hand, significantly pressured our revenue, as we detailed in the previous slide.

In addition, the start of capturing efficiencies unlocked in our expenses in the region's integration process was still preliminary and not enough to offset the drop in revenue, leading to a deleveraging of SG&A. Looking specifically at G&A in this quarter, there was an impact from expenses with terminations. It is important to note that they're not included in the transformation costs as they're not related to the wave two process, although they also aim at organizational efficiency for the company. Excluding this impact, general and admin expenses at Hispana would have shown a similar drop to revenue, even with part of these expenses linked to the BRL, which appreciated against Hispanic currencies during the period. Finally, it's worth noting that excluding Argentina, the EBITDA margin improved year on year, reflecting the recovery in revenue in Mexico and good performance of the more mature integrated countries.

Moving now to slide number nine. Now we're going to look at our results in a consolidated way. We see revenue declining at 3.8% in constant currency and 13.1% in BRL, reflecting the slowdown in Brazil, temporary challenges of wave two in Hispana, as well as the appreciation of BRL against Hispanic currencies and strong impact of hyperinflation accounting on our Argentina revenue. In terms of profitability, we presented a drop of 350 basis points year over year on a consolidated basis, or 360 basis points when we look only at the LATAM operation. The 10 basis points difference between the two performances is explained by corporate expenses, which we previously called holding expenses, which decreased 27.7% year on year and therefore accounted for 60 basis points for the consolidated revenue versus 70 basis points in Q3 2024.

Looking at LATAM's profitability here, once again, the G&A issue stands out, which explains all the variation in the EBITDA margin year over year and forces the urgency of concluding the setups of our structuring investments and taking structural actions to unlock efficiencies throughout the organization. Now, moving on to quarter's total net income on slide number 10, our last line was once again impacted by non-cash and non-recurring accounting effects related to our discontinued operations, which are available for sale. This quarter, we recorded a loss of BRL 1.8 billion. This figure mainly reflects the impairment of BRL 2.8 billion in the book value of Avon International, excluding Russia. This loss was partially offset by a gain of BRL 1 billion due to the maintenance of Avon's trademarking and the rights in Latin America, as detailed in the material fact dated September 18.

It is important to note that the impairment of BRL 2.8 billion is explained by the intention to sell the operation for GBP 1, and its book value, as shown in the second quarter, was BRL 2.8 billion. Regarding net income from continued operations, we posted a loss of BRL 119 million in the third quarter. This represents a worsening when compared to the profit of BRL 301 million recorded in the same period last year. This change is the result of revenues and profitability under pressure, as I have already commented, a worsening of the financial result explained by the unfavorable effect of the exchange rate hedge of our debts in dollars. However, these effects were partially offset by lower tax expenses given the reduction of our EBT in the quarter. In slide 11, we look at our firm cash flow.

In the nine months of 2025, it totaled BRL 301 million, which represents a reduction of BRL 81 million when compared to the same period of the previous year. This reduction was driven by two main factors. First, operational worsening of results, which, however, was almost entirely offset by the tax line. Second, the deterioration of our working capital, which worsened by BRL 37 million. Analyzing the working capital dynamics, we see a significant improvement in receivables, reflecting the tighter credit we have implemented. This, however, is offset by the worsening in the line of payments and other assets and liabilities. Finally, it is worth noting that our inventory line worsened by BRL 65 million year on year, explained by the revenue that was lower than expected in this third quarter. Regarding free cash flow, the year-on-year worsening was BRL 172 million.

This difference is explained by the $81 million reduction in the firm's cash flow, and the remainder is mostly attributed to currency effects on our cash position. Moving on to slide 12, my last slide, the one on indebtedness. In this quarter, our net debt was practically stable at $4 billion, which reflects the firm's cash flow, neutral cash flow. In the quarter, the payment of debt interest was around $90 million. However, our leverage goes from 2.18 times in the second quarter of 2025 to 2.53 times this quarter. Why is this happening? Mainly due to the deterioration of EBITDA reported in this quarter on year comparison.

Finally, it's worth remembering that EBITDA for the fourth quarter 2024, which is used in the calculation basis for EBITDA for the last 12 months, had a negative impact of BRL 564 million from the strategic projects previously led by the holding, mainly related to Chapter 11 of API. Excluding this effect, the net debt EBITDA metric would be 1.87 times in the third quarter of 2025. This is our adjusted leverage number. By the end of the year, we expect it to end the 12-month period within our optimal capital structure position between one and one point times leverage.

Before giving the floor back to JP, I want to highlight that the continued recovery in Mexico, the gradual improvement in Argentina's performance, and the capture of benefits from the tactical reductions that we implemented in the third quarter will be the factors that will make it possible to an improvement in margin already in the fourth quarter. Finally, the expansion of the recurring EBITDA margin for the whole of 2025 versus fiscal year 2024, which reiterates our commitment which we made to the market at the beginning of the year. I give the floor to JP, and then I'll come back for the questions and answers session. Thank you, Silvia. Before we move on to the Q&A session, I'd like to wrap up the presentation with my closing remarks.

As to 2025, I'd like to echo Silvia's comments and reaffirm the expansion of our recurring EBITDA margin for the year. I'd also like to reiterate that this was the last year we reported transformation costs and adjusted EBITDA. We remain confident that we're well positioned to deliver on the ambitions outlined at Natura Day starting next year, namely strengthening and expanding our leadership in Brazil and Argentina, driven by the modernization of our direct selling model, strengthening our business in Mexico, accelerating our growth in D2C channels and in the hair care category, reigniting the Avon brand, implementing a more agile business model designed to capture the new strategic opportunities I just mentioned. Finally, realizing the returns from the structural investments we discussed today, driving gains in efficiency, profitability, and cash conversion. That concludes my remarks. Thank you very much.

We will now move on to the Q&A session. We'll now begin the Q&A session. To ask a question, click the Q&A icon at the bottom of your screen and type your questions to enter the queue. When your name is called, a prompt will appear on your screen. Please enable your microphone to ask your question. We kindly ask that you ask all of your questions at once. Danny Edgard, sell side analyst from XP Investimentos, asks the first question. Good morning, folks. Thank you for the question. I'm just going to ask this one. We see a very challenging macro context, especially in Brazil, but you also mentioned Argentina, and we see other players going through similar situations that it seems there's not a lot of room to handle all of that.

It looks like that you've taken the initiative to move in terms of expenses efficiency, a bit more tactical, but evolving into structural adjustments. Actually, I'd like to explore what else can be done. First, in terms of structural initiatives, if you can provide some order of magnitude in the key areas, would be nice. When the structural project will be concluded. On the other hand, what else can be done? I don't remember if it will, which of the two of you mentioned the adjustment on the offers? That was not enough. JP, I think you were the one who mentioned. Are you looking at other possible adjustments in portfolio or pricing or somehow in your product offer for a more challenging reality for a longer challenging time?

I think Avon is being rebuilt, sort of say, but in Natura itself, what are you still looking in terms of opportunities? And also in terms of credit, you talk about credit restriction. It makes sense given the default context at more elevated levels. Maybe you could use Emanape, maybe a bit overall. The leaders kind of fostering Emanape, and if you have some kind of a flexibility of using that as a driver or others that I haven't thought about, what's in your hand to deal with a more challenging scenario besides expenses? Thank you. Good morning, Danny. Let me start by addressing your question about the revenue consumption, and then Silvia will field the question about expenses adjustments. We do not foresee any major changes in consumption. We do not detect any trends that will shift the current scenario.

There is always something we can do. The first lever, credit. We used to be more restrictive as far as credit goes. That is why delinquency is under control. That will impact the work that our consultants do. In reality, credits, payments, and collection we have in our pay system are top quality. Once you migrate the portfolio to the pay, gradually we will be able to provide credit more efficiently. That is why we are speeding up the migration, the portfolio to the pay, which in turn will improve the efficiency of our consultants. There are regional opportunities.

The consumption behavior we have in the Northeast and in the state of Rio Grande do Sul, and we are monitoring that management at the micro level, at the regional level to determine what is more interesting in each one of these markets and then adjusting the portfolio and the categories that are more profitable at this time of the year. We are focusing on those segments. Having said that, Avon could be a very important lever at this point in time, but the portfolio is not appropriate, unfortunately. In summary, yes, we can make adjustments to try to boost capture at this point in time, especially in Brazil, as well as in Argentina. Over to you now, Silvia. Hi, Danny. Good morning. Thank you for the question. Let me address G&A. That was the problem we had in profitability.

I'd like to give you more color as to what we've done so far and what we will still do. This G&A level is not going to be the standard level for the company. This is key. Having said that, the book value of G&A dropped quarter on quarter. As a percentage of the revenue, we do not see that progress. The slowdown in Brazil was above what we expected. Here's what we started to do when we detected that slowdown. We reviewed our portfolio to shut down projects that would start this year. We froze all vacancies. We cut on discretionary expenses, but that was not enough. That is why we are taking structural measures that are relevant to simplify the organization even further. These measures will bring benefits as of 2026. When we look at G&A in Brazil, we see important impacts on projects.

As I said, and JP said, we decided not to stop. These are projects that had already been going on, and they are very important to enable future growth and future returns as of 2026. They still impact G&A. One of them is integrated planning. We have talked about this project on our investors' day. It is a complete review that will bring benefits, efficiency gains in inventory, a very important project that is supposed to, that we expect to conclude later this year. Other projects related to the digitalization of the consultant's journey and the customer's journey. It is also a very important project because the consultant's digitalization will allow us to promote direct sales, the non-VD channels, and finally, innovation. Innovation impacted G&A this quarter. These are important investments, especially when we consider the new Avon portfolio. The kickoff will take place in the first half of 2026.

In Minas Gerais, our G&A level has been high. We've had that nominal improvement when compared to Q3 and Q2. We expect to capture additional benefits based on the tactical measures that were implemented in Q4 and that urgency to make those structural changes so that we can be prepared for the market. Let me just ask you a follow-up as far as pricing. Do you consider reviewing prices because of those giftable categories? There's a tough competition for pricing, not only comparing cosmetics and cosmetics, but maybe jewelry, chocolates. Now, considering about the seasonality, is there room to maybe make some price adjustments? We always look at the price dynamic comparing the market overall competition. As you said, competition is not always in the same category, but we try to make adjustments, and we will make some adjustments, but they're marginal ones, even though they're absolutely relevant. Fantastic.

Thank you for your answers, folks. Our next question comes from Luis Gonaes from BTG. Luis, go ahead and open your mic. Good morning, JP and Silvia. I think two questions on my side, segueing, piggybacking on the previous answer. JP, if you could further explore the top-down scenario in the market and different segments where Natura does business. How do you see the trend for the end of the year and early next year if there is any sign, even if it is a small sign for some inflection in categories, consumer categories? The second question, also segueing to Danny's question, is how much room we have for price forwarding or thinking about next year, if we could expect some room for price increase for the categories that you do business in. Thank you. Good morning. Let me address the market.

The market has been slowing down throughout the year, and it's been growing a little over inflation. The market used to be growing well above inflation rates. Basically, the main driver is the price. Volumes are flat, slightly negative in the beauty category, the more discretionary categories. These are important categories for us. We haven't seen any major inflection signs. I think the slowdown has been halted. That's the impression we get. These categories are very elastic to available income and prices. We have to keep on monitoring what will happen to available income. The government is planning to boost income, especially for next year, and if that happens, that will be helpful. We'll have to wait and see.

We've always tried to adjust prices to work on our margins, and we don't see any problems in doing that, especially when you have a leading brand like we do. We have to determine what the price adjustments are, not only in list prices, but also through innovation. Our pipeline is very strong for next year, a very innovative one for that matter. I am confident we'll be able to implement the habits to recover margins through prices as well. Thank you. That was excellent. Thank you very much. The next question comes from Ruben Couto from Santander. Ruben, you may ask your question now. Go ahead, sir. Good morning, folks. Thank you for taking my question. Can you elaborate on your expectations on your consultants' network? I think there's the churning effect of those less productive consultants and Hispana is at a different stage in wave two.

What can you expect from your consultants' base, not only at year's end, but also for next year? Are you trying to increase the number of consultants? Maybe by benefiting from the macro situation in Brazil, the macroeconomics, but do you remain focused on productivity? There is no room for boosting the number of consultants to offset that slowdown. Thank you. Good morning, Ruben. Yes, there is room for growth in the number of consultants. The number was indeed affected by the churn of small consultants, which was also affected by credit restrictions. We see a lot of room to restructure our number of consultants in Hispana as well as Brazil. This is one of the growth vectors for the coming years, for sure. Okay, fantastic. Thank you. Our next question is from Rodrigo Martins, analyst for Itaú BBA. Rodrigo, go ahead and please open your mic. Good morning, folks.

Major question that remained for me was, what in your opinion was this diagnostics for a gross margin in Brazil? JP made a few comments in the beginning, but I'd like to explore. We see the macro slowdown, but the growth of the quarter was a bit below the market growth. You mentioned it yourself that you were displeased with the results, JP. Question is, if you could go back in time, three months, would there have been something you could have done differently in terms of revenue? How much in terms of a gross margin? I'd like to explore and understand that a bit more. Now on the micro side, the initiatives for revenue and gross margin, where did this combo fall short on the third quarter?

The second question, in line with the first one, when you look at Brazil margin, the year-over-year drop, when you look at a more stable operation in top line in terms of with a more stabilized macro condition, what is the ambition in terms of profitability for Brazil? Looking at EBITDA margin, those are the two questions. Thank you. Good morning, Gassim. You know we want to defend our leadership and even expand our market share. Year to date, the Natura brand has been performing well despite being under our expectations, even in Q3, but we keep on working to get to that goal. We will not be able to expand share this year for the Avon brand. In the short term, the levers I mentioned before could have been moved even more substantially to bring in even more revenue, mostly credit.

We've been speeding up that migration to the pay, which will give us more credit alternatives. If we were to, if we had moved more quickly, we'd be able to adjust the activity in the channel and assortment by region, as I said. They have different effects. Looking back, I think we could have done a little bit better. Silvia will address profitability. Hi, Rodrigo. Thank you for your question. Let me start with gross margins in Brazil. Gross margin was down when compared to last year. Q3 2024 was very strong, but the gross margin was healthy for Brazil despite this drop when compared to last year. Why do I mean it's healthy? When you look at the first half of the year, our gross margins were at the same level, and profitability was around 21 in Brazil. That margin can yield good profitability for Brazil.

Looking ahead as far as profitability goes, this is what we said during Investors' Day. Profitability has always been strong in Brazil, and we are going to keep delivering on those track records. There are no reasons for the contrary. When we look at 2026, despite all the efficiencies of the structural transitions, you be completing the projects this year will allow us to have additional gains in that sense. That was very clear, Sílvia. Let me just double-check on it. Let me make sure I understand that. Margins for Brazil last year, you have a strong comparable basis. If you could explain why or what pushed that margin up last year when compared to Q3 and revenue was used for operational leverage, what would be a reasonable level for Brazil? Just to make sure I understand that right.

Rodrigo, when we look at Q3 last year, the impact was very favorable because of that tax movements in a business that had been growing extensively in categories that had higher contribution margins. That was very clear. Thank you, Silvia. Thank you, JP. Vinicius Strano from UBS asks the next question. Good morning, João. Good morning, Silvia. I have two questions. Let me focus on Natura Brazil. What are the categories that are impacted the most to better understand what the mix importance is down the road? Looking at Avon now, how are you going to invest in to revitalize the brand? What type of repositioning it is? What are the main KPIs? Are expected results or any expected deliveries that would lead you to discontinue the brand in the long run? The last question, it's about Avon International.

What's the visibility we have in terms of cash evolution to expect closing it for early next year with no need for additional cash inflows? Hello, Vinicius. The market has been shrinking basically in all its categories, mildly, slightly in the beauty categories. So makeup, facial products, and perfumes, it's not a big difference, but daily use segment and beauty segment have been shrinking considering that beauty slightly a bit higher contraction and our business has a bit more items of beauty rather than daily use. In terms of Avon, I can't reveal all the details of the relaunch of Avon, but I can confirm there's a lot of room in the market where this brand really fits and a very well-defined audience, but to that end, the brand has to be repositioned and the portfolio has to be redesigned.

I unfortunately cannot share any more details, but of course, we expect it to start growing again. The profitability has improved significantly after integration. So the Avon brand has positive contribution margin in all of the reports after Wave 2. So we want to go back to growing even more profitably. If that does not happen, we'll assess possible scenarios at the right time. Okay, so Silvia, Avon International. Vinicius, Avon International, the plan moves forward as planned. The expectation is to conclude the sale in the first quarter of 2026. Now, regarding the cash situation, the Avon International team is executing the plan and capturing benefits from the restructuring movements of the first quarter. So there's no expectation of additional cash inflow for Avon International. Excellent. Thank you, Silvia and João. Have a good day. Our next question is from João Pedro, a Citibank analyst.

João Pedro, go ahead and yeah, the floor is yours. João, I have sent you a command so that you can open your microphone. Our next question comes from Luis Gaiz, Goldman Sachs analyst. Go ahead and open your mic. Hello. Good morning. Thank you for the opportunity to ask. I have two more quick questions. Based on the comments of the release, it looks like you see room for greater growth in Mexico. Obviously, there's a whole issue on recovery after Wave Two, but in terms of market share, do you see that maybe there's greater room than in other markets?

If you could go into detail a bit more, which categories and how you intend to grab this market share in Mexico and especially, and if you could just explain a bit more what you're thinking in terms of innovation, which was a topic that you highlighted significantly in Natura Day, June, July, I guess. If you could speak to how you are protecting this area, shielding this area during this moment where you're seeking greater efficiencies throughout the organization as a whole. Thank you. Good morning, Irma. Yes, it's true. Mexico is the geography in which we have the largest market share upside because we are the most under-indexed when compared to other countries. There's a very direct and simple driver that starts now, and that's the Natura penetration on the inherited direct sales channel from Avon, a very large channel compared to what we had.

Now we had direct access with the Natura brand. The brand can now go to many more households. That can be translated into an important productivity gain. On top of that, there is investment to make the brand even more known in that region, just like it is in other countries. Once there is more awareness, we can invest in the brand, and that is a virtuous cycle. Finally, direct sales is not that important in the country. That is why we are expanding our online as well as the store chain using franchises even. There is a lot of room for growth in the coming years. As to innovation, mostly products, that can be innovation, can be commercialization or digitalization, but I would like to focus on product innovation. We have analyzed our pipeline for launches in the coming three years.

It's been very well defined for 2026 and 2027. We're very positive about these products, and there's room for some minor changes in the 2028 portfolio. We reviewed the entire innovation pipeline, focusing on those items that can bring in more revenue. We want to make sure that these high-return launches receive all the necessary resources so that they can perform well. It is only fair to conclude that you are focused on fewer SKUs and rather focusing on those that can generate more impact, right? You are focusing on those products. Yes, that's right. Yes, you are correct. We're focusing on high-return launches and reducing the total number of launches. That's right. I get it. Thank you. Alexandre Namiyoka from Morgan Stanley asks the next question. You can unmute your mic. Good morning. Thank you for taking my question. Let me just follow up on Avon.

The one to the last slide you mentioned, the resumption of the Avon brand as of 2026. Back on the Investors' Day, I had the impression you were not that confident about this new relaunch of the brand. What makes you more confident now? Do you believe that these structural investments will be enough, or do you have to invest in marketing even more, maybe to reignite that brand as of next year? Thank you so much. Alexandre, we have a team working on this launch, and in the weekly reviews we have for this project, I see greater and greater enthusiasm. The work that's being done is innovative and even refreshing, to say. It is a highly promising path, and I'm stoked. It's fair to say that we have not been able, have not managed to do this up until now.

This confidence does not come from extrapolating concrete results. It is fair for us to wait for this to come into reality, but I am very enthusiastic about it. The necessary investments are the regular business investments, but allocated in a completely different way than they are today. The necessary resources are not excessive. They are in line with the size of the business, but in our opinion, they will be much more efficient and much more productive. In this case, different than in other topics, we will have to wait and see if our enthusiasm will come to fruition. Thank you, JP. Our next question is from João Pedro, a Citi analyst. João, go ahead. Hello, folks. Can you hear me now? Yes, loud and clear. Thank you. Thank you, JP. I do apologize for the tech issue.

JP, the point is when I look at the company's top line in Brazil, it looks it doesn't look mismatched or disaligned with the Investor Day proposal. Back to Alexandre's question, the Natura brand apparently gaining market share, and Avon is truly reflecting our investments. But when we look below these lines, we see a misalignment or seemingly disalignment between costs and expenses. I'd like to explore and exploit a bit more to understand when you are back to investing in the Avon brand, this will suffer a penalty. There should be some increase in our ND expenses. There's a phasing seasonality in expenses, which is somewhat challenging to understand. So how do you see this better alignment of the cost and expense structure to reflect the strategy that you yourselves have designed to focus more on the Natura brand at that point?

Clear, I hope, and cash conversion for next year, whether EBITDA or some other operating metric for us to understand the sustainable level of cash conversion for the LATAM operation. Thank you. Hi, João. Thank you for your question. You are right. Our income state is not balanced due to that G&A impact. As I said, it has to do with different drivers, be it them from Wave Two or the fact that we are concluding the project this year that will only yield results next year or the deleveraging. I am certain that G&A level will be significantly lower next year than the one we had this year. They may come from the capture or the results of the projects or the benefits of this organizational simplification. G&A is misaligned, and we expect it will go back to the right level as of next year.

On top of that, in profitability, there are some opportunities to be captured in selling coming from the combination of Mexico and Argentina businesses, as well as from other countries. Marketing, as you said, we're not considering investing more in marketing than what the business can absorb. JP mentioned or talked about Avon specifically. Investments will be gradual once we see progress in those plans implemented in 2026. Profitability, of course, we want to expand profitability in 2026 when compared to 2025, just like we've done in the past three years. Onto cash conversion. On the Investors' Day, I showed you that we had above 50% cash conversion in 2024. Historically, before those acquisitions, the company had above 60%. With the end of that transformation cycle and the simplification cycle, we're going back to having a company that is very similar to the company we had before the acquisitions.

That is to say, we expect to go back to the same cash conversion level we had before. That was very clear. Thank you, Sílvia. This concludes the Q&A session. Natura's third quarter 2025 earnings call is now concluded. The Investor Relations team remains available to address any additional questions. Thank you. Have a great day.

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