Earnings call transcript: Norske Skog Q1 2025 misses EPS expectations

Norske Skog reported a significant earnings miss for Q1 2025, with an actual EPS of -6.55, falling short of the forecasted -1.33. Revenue also came in below expectations at 2.49 billion USD, compared to a forecast of 3.15 billion USD. Despite the earnings miss, the stock showed resilience, rising 5.65% to a price of 1.95 USD. According to InvestingPro data, analysts expect both sales growth and a return to profitability this year, potentially supporting investor optimism about future prospects and strategic initiatives.

Key Takeaways

• Norske Skog’s Q1 2025 EPS and revenue both missed forecasts significantly.
• Stock price increased by 5.65% to 20.20 USD despite earnings miss.
• Company maintains a strong cash position with 1 billion USD.
• Strategic focus on recycled containerboard and pulp production.
• Volatile operating environment expected to continue.

Company Performance

Norske Skog’s performance in Q1 2025 was marked by a notable earnings miss, with EPS significantly below analyst expectations. Despite this, the company managed to maintain a strong cash balance of 1 billion USD and an equity ratio of 39%. The interest coverage ratio stood at 7.9x, indicating robust financial health. The company’s strategic focus on recycled containerboard production and pulp production positions it well for future growth, although challenges remain in the current volatile market environment.

Financial Highlights

• Revenue: 2.49 billion USD, below the forecast of 3.15 billion USD.
• Earnings per share: -6.55 USD, missing the forecast of -1.33 USD.
• EBITDA: SEK 612 million, including SEK 560 million from an insurance settlement.
• Equity ratio increased to 39%.
• Interest coverage ratio at 7.9x.
• Cash balance maintained at 1 billion USD.
• Net debt maintained at 4.1 billion USD.

Earnings vs. Forecast

Norske Skog’s Q1 2025 earnings per share of -6.55 USD fell short of the forecasted -1.33 USD, representing a significant negative surprise. This miss is substantial compared to previous quarters, where the company had managed to meet or slightly exceed expectations. Revenue also missed forecasts, coming in at 2.49 billion USD against a projected 3.15 billion USD.

Market Reaction

Despite the disappointing earnings report, Norske Skog’s stock rose by 5.65%, closing at 20.20 USD. This increase suggests that investors remain optimistic about the company’s strategic initiatives and future growth prospects. The stock’s performance is notable given its position within a 52-week range of 15 to 43.98 USD, indicating potential for recovery.

Outlook & Guidance

Looking forward, Norske Skog anticipates a challenging operating environment characterized by uncertainty and volatility. The company is focused on reducing production costs and expects the Bruck PM3 to reach full capacity in the second half of 2025. Additionally, Gold Bay PM1 is projected to achieve full utilization by 2027. The company plans to target export markets in 2025 due to missed annual contracts.

Executive Commentary

Ewen Lund, SVP Corporate Finance, highlighted the importance of procuring energy and fiber at competitive prices to produce publication paper and containerboard efficiently. He noted, "The operating environment is expected to remain uncertain and volatile with pressure on profitability for most of our product grades." Robert Wood, Sales Director, expressed confidence in the company’s positions and readiness to adapt to potential policy changes.

Risks and Challenges

• Continued volatility in the operating environment may pressure profitability.
• Challenges in procuring energy and fiber at competitive prices could impact production costs.
• Potential market closures in the publication paper segment may affect revenue.
• Uncertainty in export markets due to missed annual contracts.
• Pressure from macroeconomic factors and industry competition.

Q&A

During the earnings call, analysts inquired about the sustainability of publication paper EBITDA and potential market closures. The company expressed confidence in maintaining current EBITDA levels and is exploring project options at the Sverdrup mill, including BCTMP and PM6 restart. Analysts also questioned the company’s liquidity position, to which executives responded positively, citing the insurance settlement and expected energy supports.

Full transcript - Norske Skog Asa (NSKOG) Q1 2025:

Webinar Moderator: Good

Gerd Angflan, CEO, Norske Skvork: morning, everybody, and welcome to the presentation of Norske Skvork First Quarter Figures. The participants from the company is SVP, Corporate Finance, Ewen Lund. It’s the CFO, Todd. And it’s the company’s Head of Communication, Carsten Duyberweg. And it’s the sales director, Robert Wood and myself, CEO of the company, Gerd Angflan.

I leave it to you, Thud, and Evan, to introduce the participants for the figures. So good luck. Thank you, Jerk.

Todd, CFO, Norske Skvork: So in Losses Kug, we continue to focus on our strategy of being a committed and cost efficient supplier of PVC paper, growing our deliveries of packaging paper and exploring profitable growth opportunities with new fiber projects across our four mills in Europe. Very soon, in about one week, we will have two paper machines producing recycled containerboard, which will enable us to increase our deliveries from this segment significantly during the next couple of years. But here, we also work very diligently to maintain full utilization of our seven machines in the publication paper space by constantly focusing on reducing our mail gate cash cost and gradually gaining market share. So these are the quarter highlights. EBITDA came in at SEK $612,000,000 for the quarter, where of SEK $560,000,000 is a result of the final settlement with the insurance company over the claim relating to the rock slide at our service mill in April 2023.

Operational EBITDA also saw an improvement over prior quarter, and the containerboard machine at Bruck delivered its strongest quarter to date, both in terms of production and deliveries and in terms of results. After the quarter end, we have, together with the Mariner Group, closed the transaction for the sale of our remaining Australasian operations, and the sale will result in a cash consideration of around SEK 150,000,000 recognized in Q2. We are reviewing future opportunities at Servoix, and the BCTMP main study is now completed in terms of the plant design. The environmental permitting process is ongoing, and we are expecting the results from this during the summer months. We have also completed a study for a low CapEx restart of PM6, paper machine number six.

But we stress that a potential restart of PM6 would be done in parallel with a permanent closure of PM4 and PM5. These are the key figures for the quarter. Production and deliveries developed well for containerboard and magazine paper, while newsprint dropped back in large part due to weather related events and power losses at our Skog mill, which interfered with the production. Operating revenue decreased slightly due to the lower volumes as prices were similar to the prior quarter. Other operating income is up due to the insurance compensation at Survoy’s, which also you could see reflected in the EBITDA and the pretax profit.

Briefly on the financial position. The equity ratio increased to 39% and the interest coverage ratio to 7.9x. The cash balance is maintained at billion as the insurance compensation offsets the CapEx in the quarter, mainly related to Golbetium-one project and an increase in working capital. The net debt is also maintained at 4,100,000,000.0. You can expect the working capital to be reduced in Q2 as the annual CO2 compensation in Norway was received April 15, and we are expected to receive the CO2 compensation in France in May or June.

Moving to the segments. For publication paper, we have lower deliveries due to the just mentioned weather related unplanned shots at Schong, but the production is now back to normal. Average prices for the segment were slightly up. This is mainly due to mix effects with a higher share of magazine paper, a higher priced product and a lower share of newsprints. Fixed costs relating to Gulbe PM1 of approximately SEK 60,000,000 have been shifted from publication paper to packaging paper segment, which, of course, impacts the results for the packaging paper segment.

Bork PM3, the machine in Austria, which has been in production for two years now, delivered in excess of 48,000 tons in the quarter, which is close to the target utilization of around 50,000 per quarter. I’ll now hand over the word to SVP, Corporate Finance, Emil Lund, for an update on our project and also markets.

Ewen Lund, SVP Corporate Finance, Norske Skvork: Thank you, Torit. So most of you have probably seen this slide a couple of times before. I’ll not spend too much time on it. Projects at Bruck are still completed and running quite well, as Thurid just mentioned. We are just about one week away from starting up the production at Gold Bay.

Pulp production started this morning actually, and we hope to have the first paper coming out of the mill in just a few days, which will be a milestone event for Nuske Skog. Remaining CapEx of around EUR 35,000,000 to 40,000,000, most of that to be spent now in the second quarter and a small part also in the third quarter. And noting that we have remaining grants, mainly in the form of energy certificates to be received in 2026 and 2027 of around EUR 50,000,000 in total. Looking a bit at the markets. So here, you see the publication paper market for the different grades, slightly different representation or visualization than we’ve usually made.

On the left hand side, you see the demand for newsprint, both domestic demand in dark green and the net exports in gray as well as the capacity with the black line on top. The newsprint market is perhaps the best publication paper market when comparing to the magazine grades. But still, there is a need for future closures with an operating rate at the moment around the mid-80s and expect a slight demand decline through 2025 after a more stable year in 2024. The magazine paper grades, first uncoated mechanical in the middle, where we have the three grades supercalendered uncoated mechanical improved and uncoated mechanical other grades with a domestic demand and then net exports on top. Here, the utilization rate is quite a bit lower in the mid-70s, and we expect also a slight demand decline for this trade into 2025.

And then the weakest market for us at the moment, where we have one machine operating currently, the LWC or coated mechanical market, where the utilization rate is also then in the mid-60s, so a bit lower, and the demand decline expected in ’25. In challenging markets, it’s all about being cost competitive. We are very cost competitive in new sprint with both the Skong in the mill and the Gulbet PM2 machine. In total, we have capacity of more than 800,000 tonnes of new sprint delivering in The UK, Europe and also some exports. In uncoated mechanical, we have some deliveries of uncoated mechanical improved from Skongen, but our main delivery into this market is through Saubruggs, where we have two machines operating, PM4 and PM5.

As Thurde mentioned, we are looking at the project to restart the PM6, which will be significantly more competitive than the PM4 and five machines and then to close those machines. But we will update on that into the future. Cotton mechanical, as mentioned, we have one machine, the Bruck PM4, 265,000 tonnes. This is a very challenging market. So although we are in the middle of the cash cost curve, it’s still challenging to be very profitable in this market.

Packaging paper. So we are increasing our market share in this market. Brucke delivered 48,000 tonnes of containerboard in the first quarter, and we hope to get that up to around 50,000 tonnes per quarter going forward. In addition, we will start Gold Bay in a few days now, and that will deliver up to around 125 to 130,000 tonnes per quarter when at full utilization. That’s expected to be reached in the first half of twenty twenty seven.

The market was quite strong in 2024, growing with around 4%, and we expect a slight growth of around 1% in 2025. Utilization is below the target of 95% for the industry, currently in the mid-80s. And we expect it to remain around that area for some time as there are new machines starting up in 2025, including our own Gold Bay PM1. On the right hand side, you see the cash cost curve for Western European containerboard capacity. Bruck is positioned in the third quartile, noting that this is a cash cost curve developed by a third party.

And when we look at the cash cost of Bruck PM3, we see it as significantly more competitive than assets represented here. To produce publication paper and containerboard, it’s mainly about procuring energy and fiber at the best price possible. For energy, we have most of our exposure of at least electricity or power through long term contracts. So we are not as exposed to the spot markets as others may be. And for the thermal energy, we do purchase a small share of natural gas, but most of it comes from our own biomass and waste to energy boilers.

Recycled paper prices have been volatile and are starting to increase again. We expect RCP and OCC prices to remain high and continue and to increase going forward, putting further pressure on margins. The same is the situation for fresh fiber. We purchased quite a bit of spruce pulpwood in Norway, and the prices are at record high levels, and we expect them to remain in that area going forward. EUA prices or the CO2 quota price is, again, volatile around the mid-60s currently.

We have 96,000 unsold quotas from 2024 and expect to receive a surplus of additional 200,000 quotas in 2025. In addition, we have received on April 15, ’3 ’70 million in energy support in Norway and additional EUR 11,000,000 is expected to be received in France during 2025. Looking at the product prices, publication paper on the left side, fairly flat for quite some time now, and we expect it to stay at that level going forward. The prices reflect more or less the breakeven cash cost for the marginal producers in each market, and it’s not at any high profitability levels. Recycled containerboard index increased in March, and we expect it to stay or in February, and we expect it to stay at that level or even perhaps increase slightly going forward as this market is also under significant pressure in terms of profitability.

To briefly mention that we are reviewing future opportunities at the Sverdrup’s mill. We have just completed both the study for a BCTMP pulp project and the restart of the paper machine six. And we’ll get back to that in the future once the review of the studies have been completed. On the outlook, the operating environment is expected to remain uncertain and volatile with pressure on profitability for most of our product grades. Thus, we have a significant focus on reducing our production cost and working capital to maintain competitiveness.

Bruck PM3 is expected to reach full capacity utilization during the second half of twenty twenty five. As mentioned, we delivered 48,000 tonnes in the first quarter, and full capacity utilization is around 50,000 tonnes. Gold Bay PM1 will start production in about one week and reach full utilization in 2027. Since it is starting quite a bit into 2025, We were not able to participate in the annual volume contracts, which will mean that we have to take a larger part of the production into export markets for the year 2025 with lower product prices. But that will, of course, improve significantly when we enter 2026 and can participate in the annual volume contracts.

As mentioned, the remaining gross CapEx at Gold Bay is expected around EUR 35,000,000 to 40,000,000, and we expect to receive around EUR 50,000,000 in energy certificates and grants during 2026 and 2027. And as always, we keep maintain or monitor our capital and liquidity position closely and have several ongoing initiatives to secure both financial performance and position going forward. So with that, I think we can open up for the Q and A.

Webinar Moderator: Yeah. And the webinar will be be recorded and later available on the web page, and you may now raise questions. And first, we have Sean Ungerer. You’re welcome to raise your question. Right.

Yeah. Hello. Sean. You’re welcome.

Ewen Lund, SVP Corporate Finance, Norske Skvork: I think you have to unmute your microphone, Sean. That should be possible.

Robert Wood, Sales Director, Norske Skvork: Because of the muted.

Marcus Gavele, Analyst: No option to unmute.

Robert Wood, Sales Director, Norske Skvork: Yeah. Because as you see, everyone’s muted.

Ewen Lund, SVP Corporate Finance, Norske Skvork: I think Marcus Gavele, perhaps you could try to unmute your microphone.

Webinar Moderator: There you go. Can you hear me?

Sean, Analyst: Yes.

Ewen Lund, SVP Corporate Finance, Norske Skvork: We can hear you. Yeah.

Marcus Gavele, Analyst: Perfect. Yeah. I would just appreciate if you could get some color on the publication paper EBITDA of almost 90,000,000. That was a pretty significant jump from, the 40,000,000 or so in in q four, obviously, due to the fixed cost. But just to try to understand, is this, given the the change in, at Skongen with the volumes and the and the product mix, Is this, again, considering the prices stay firm, is this a decent run rate going forward, would you say?

Is there anything that speaks against this being a level that you should be able to sustain also, considering the energy prices and so on.

Webinar Moderator: Yeah.

Ewen Lund, SVP Corporate Finance, Norske Skvork: I think it’s correct, as you point out, that underlying adjusting for the insurance compensation in the first quarter, it is a significant improvement versus the fourth quarter. That is mainly relating to the fixed cost being allocated away from publication paper and to the packaging paper segment, as Thoret had mentioned, an effect of around NOK 60,000,000 to 65,000,000. And yes, we do expect the operating environment to be at around the current levels going forward, meaning that, that profitability level should be possible to maintain and noting that we see some pressure on the RCP recovered paper prices that may influence that, of course. So always as always, stressing that the operating environment is quite volatile and uncertain.

Marcus Gavele, Analyst: Yeah. No, absolutely. Thank you. That’s all for me.

Webinar Moderator: Okay. Sean or you can try again.

Sean, Analyst: Hey. Can you hear me now?

Webinar Moderator: Yes.

Sean, Analyst: Excellent. Thank you. Just around a comment earlier, I think the growth rate was mentioned about 4% year to date. Was that for the European testliner market?

Ewen Lund, SVP Corporate Finance, Norske Skvork: No, the 4% growth rate was the European testliner market in 2024. So in 2025, we expect yes, in 2025, we expect around 1%.

Sean, Analyst: One point seven. Okay. Great. And then just going to Golbe. So you mentioned full ramp up in in 02/1927.

So I assume that’s hitting around 95% similar to your other machine currently. Is that correct?

Ewen Lund, SVP Corporate Finance, Norske Skvork: So for Buruk PM three, we expect around 95% towards the end of twenty five, whereas for Gold Bay PM one, we do expect full utilization in the early part of twenty twenty seven, if that answers the question.

Sean, Analyst: Yes, it sort of does. I mean, how do you think about 2026? Is that going to be is the ramp up going to be driven by the market or more about your own decisions to rather ramp up as much as possible?

Robert Wood, Sales Director, Norske Skvork: Yes, think it’s both. I mean, as Evan said, this year, because we’re delayed, don’t get a chance to participate in the annual volume contract negotiations. So when it comes to ’26, we having established ourselves well through H2 this year, we’ll be in a position to take part in the annual volume negotiations with the larger customers. And we would expect that to significantly ramp up in 2026 as we saw last year with the group ramp up as well. So I can’t exactly remember what the the the the plan is.

Ewen Lund, SVP Corporate Finance, Norske Skvork: And I think it was for the utilization rate, we’ll probably start the year around 70% Yeah. And end around 85%. Yeah.

Robert Wood, Sales Director, Norske Skvork: That makes sense. And then the last push into ’27 up to yeah. Similar 95% ish level for for Gobi, if not a little better.

Sean, Analyst: Okay. Excellent. Thanks. I appreciate it. And then just last one.

So it just sounds like the European testliner market is still quite precarious with demand only sort of maybe hitting 1% this year, waste paper costs going up. I mean, essentially, I mean, a large part of the cost curve must be under significant pressure again, so that most probably means more price increases coming, or do you sort of finally see some more market closures happening?

Robert Wood, Sales Director, Norske Skvork: Yeah. Of course, I think that there is some push for perhaps further price increases based on the raw material costs. At the same time, we are coming with a new machine. Larkershun’s coming with a new machine, possibly the Duino machine in Italy as well. So that that’s probably going to balance that.

But still, the the raw material costs is the main driver, I think. We’ll have to see how it goes.

Sean, Analyst: Excellent. Thanks for the time.

Webinar Moderator: Okay. Thank you, Sam, and thank you to Robert Wood, our Commercial Director. Slotty Wiebsta, you’re welcome to raise a question.

Slotty Wiebsta, Analyst: Thank you. You’re referring to export markets on your slides. Can you define, is that out of EU or out of manufacturing plant? So and then following to that, if you could elaborate a little bit on how tariffs may impact short term and longer term, please?

Robert Wood, Sales Director, Norske Skvork: Yes. Basically, if I can so basically, exports for us is overseas volumes. So it would include for us Turkey, Middle East, India, China. For us, we don’t consider U. S.

As export, although it’s an export market, that’s considered part of our core business. I hope that helps. In relation to tariffs, it’s, of course, volatile because they come on and then they’re taken away almost the day after. So we have some exposure to deliveries to The US, but with the existing small levels, we’re able to deal with that. We had one of the biggest customers here visiting us from America Two Weeks ago just before Easter.

So we just have to see how how that develops. We’re prepared for it. We have good positions, and we’ll we’ll have to see ultimately what the Trump administration does.

Slotty Wiebsta, Analyst: Okay. And if I may follow-up a little bit, you’re showing charts showing global oversupply in all your markets. And this is not sustainable, of course. What’s your expectations of closures from other parties that could bring market balance?

Robert Wood, Sales Director, Norske Skvork: Well, we’ve seen, as you know, one closure coming probably in Germany, if that’s ratified by UPM in the SCB market. We do see the need for others. If we can be competitive on our millgate cash costs, we expect our machines to survive longer than others. And that’s what we’re seeing. We have, as we said, also gained some market shares in all the areas.

So I think others will look to take capacities out before us.

Slotty Wiebsta, Analyst: How do you win market share? Is that on price or other factors?

Robert Wood, Sales Director, Norske Skvork: I think it’s commodities we’re dealing with. So it’s very, very little you can do in price. It’s all the quality issues, the delivery, reliability and our local service. We have our own sales offices in our key markets and that’s very, very appreciated by the customers. So I think that’s our strength there.

Closeness to the market, speaking the local languages, that helps us.

Slotty Wiebsta, Analyst: Thank you very much.

Webinar Moderator: Okay. Thank you, Snyder. And then Martin Melby, you’re welcome to raise your question.

Todd, CFO, Norske Skvork: Yes. Good morning. Could you elaborate a bit more on the project? I guess you have three options. One, pulp, two, magazine paper, and three, do nothing.

Which is the best project, and and which can you afford?

Ewen Lund, SVP Corporate Finance, Norske Skvork: Good question. I mean, we do indicate at least some preliminary CapEx figures in the presentation. Net investment of around SEK 1.5 to 2,000,000,000 for the BCTMP project. And for the PM6, we start around NOK 300,000,000 to NOK $350,000,000. We have to dig a bit deeper into that.

But at the moment, of course, to do the BCTMP project would require a bit more financing than what we have in place, whereas the PM6 project might be realizable with our own balance sheet as it is. And also in terms of time line, the project the BCTMP project is quite a bit longer in terms of construction work than the restart of the PM6. So and also for the market, the PM6 is much lower risk as we do transition the existing customers away from PM4 and five and to the PM6. But what the best alternative is, is not yet decided. It’s under review as stated, and we’ll have to come back to that.

Webinar Moderator: Any more questions, Martin?

Sean, Analyst: No. That’s good. Thank you.

Webinar Moderator: Okay. Thank you to Martin Milby. And then, Karl Hofen, you’re welcome to raise your questions.

Ewen Lund, SVP Corporate Finance, Norske Skvork: You have to unmute, Cole. Alright. Yeah. Allow my Now Now you can unmute, Corey.

Karl Hofen, Analyst: Thank you. If I could start wastepaper raw material costs, I’d just like your view on where you see OCC costs going here because, you know, we’ve seen a rally from, you know, the lows of a hundred euros up to kind of almost €150 a ton in in Germany now. I just like your your views on what’s driven the increase and where you see things going considering export markets are probably gonna be a little bit softer and, you know, there’s a little bit of demand uncertainty. So first one, views on OCC. The second one is on your contract negotiations for containerboard and ramping up Gold Bay.

And please correct me if I’m wrong, but I view it now with Gold Bay starting, you’re probably perceived as a more reliable supplier considering you’ve got two production facilities as they start. So even though you’re not part of the annual negotiations, can you give us an update of, you know, how your initial contact with players like the DS Smithson or maybe cyclers of this world are progressing to place some offtake volumes within Europe are going. And then the third one is just anything that you can call out on what you’re seeing in the debt markets and maybe just some color on your liquidity position from here? Thank you.

Ewen Lund, SVP Corporate Finance, Norske Skvork: I can start with the first one on OCC, and I’ll leave it to Robert for the gold based startup. OCC, we agree with your comments that there is pressure in this market and that the prices are going up quite rapidly, also present in all the statistics provided by various industry analysts. Where will it stop? Difficult to say. I mean we did have a peak in the summer last year where we paid up towards EUR 200 per tonne.

Will it get back to those levels? Hard to say, but certainly not impossible. But we do see price increases are demanded and requested across all the markets and expect the trend to continue beyond what we currently see today, but do not want to make any promises of where it will end.

Robert Wood, Sales Director, Norske Skvork: Yes. Maybe I can take on the points regarding the start up of Golby. I think I agree with you that it strengthens our position now to have eventually the second larger machine coming online. So we will be seen as a significant independent supplier of containerboard. In terms of the contract negotiations, of course, those are commercially sensitive.

But we are and have been talking to most, if not all of the key corrugators in Europe. And given the quality that we’ve already delivered into the market from Brook, they now know us they know our organization and our capability. So I think we are confident that we will be able to place the necessary orders in this first phase, including as we said some export volumes with our key trading partners that we’ve already used for Brook and we’ll continue to use in our publication paper areas as well. So I think quietly confident on our ability to place the volumes.

Ewen Lund, SVP Corporate Finance, Norske Skvork: On your third question on the liquidity position, we did reach settlement with insurance company in the first quarter, which provided us with $560,000,000 SEK 40,000,000 additionally to our capital position. In addition, as mentioned, we have received quite a bit of energy support in Norway now in April and expect to receive more in France throughout 2025. And we have significant surplus of CO2 allowances, and we’ll also get the proceeds from the sale of the Boyer Mill recognized in the second quarter. In addition, we have the energy certificates to be received in 2026 and 2027 in Gold Bay. So we feel fairly confident at our liquidity and capital position as it is currently and but still monitoring it very closely and working across all access to improve our capital competitive position and liquidity position as always and maintaining very close dialogue with banks and also bondholders.

But we feel very comfortable where we are now.

Karl Hofen, Analyst: Perfect. And then maybe this is a bit of a leading question, but when I think about the European paper and packaging markets, you know, there there are quite a few, private players that have got quite levered balance sheets at the moment. You know, private equity has played in the space. It is more challenging to get kind of more, high yield financing. Do you have any refis that are are coming up that we should be aware of, or any thoughts there?

And do you have any views on the challenges that maybe some of your smaller competitors might face to get either bank financing or leveraged financing? If you don’t, I understand, but just like your views there.

Ewen Lund, SVP Corporate Finance, Norske Skvork: On our part, we have sort of regular debt installments of between SEK 500 and SEK 600,000,000 per year going forward. We do have a larger maturity in 2027 relating to the Skrong and the green term loan, but with the option to extend that to 2029. In addition, we have the outstanding high yield bond of 1,400,000,000.0, which matures in 2029. So as we see it, we are fairly comfortable on the installment schedule and no big refinancings in the coming years. For our competitors, I think it’s quite difficult to say also because a lot of them I mean, the larger ones are very solid.

The smaller ones are regularly not public. So it’s difficult to know their financial and financing position in detail and how their dialogues are going.

Karl Hofen, Analyst: Thank you.

Webinar Moderator: Okay. Thank you, Cole. There is no others on wanting to comment or ask questions. So thank you all for participating in this webinar and have a nice day. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you.

Sean, Analyst: Bye. Bye bye.

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