Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac shares tumble after conservatorship comments
PennyMac Mortgage Investment Trust (PMT) reported a second-quarter 2025 net loss to common shareholders of $3 million, translating to a loss per share of $0.04. This fell significantly short of the forecasted earnings per share (EPS) of $0.36, marking a surprising miss of 111.11%. Despite the earnings miss, PennyMac’s stock price showed resilience, increasing by 1.64% to $12.48 in aftermarket trading. The company declared a $0.40 per share dividend, maintaining its impressive 12.61% yield amid a volatile interest rate environment. According to InvestingPro data, PMT has maintained dividend payments for 16 consecutive years, demonstrating remarkable consistency in shareholder returns. The company’s current market capitalization stands at $1.1 billion.
Key Takeaways
- PennyMac reported a quarterly net loss, with EPS missing expectations by a wide margin.
- The stock price rose by 1.64% in aftermarket trading despite the earnings miss.
- The company completed significant securitizations, totaling $1.1 billion, reflecting strategic growth.
- PennyMac maintained its $0.40 per share dividend, indicating confidence in its cash flow.
- The company anticipates continued securitization activity and potential for increased returns.
Company Performance
PennyMac Mortgage Investment Trust’s performance in the second quarter of 2025 was marked by a net loss, primarily driven by lower-than-expected earnings. Despite the loss, the company demonstrated robust operational activity, completing significant securitizations and maintaining its dividend payout. The company’s strategic focus on securitizations and correspondent loan acquisitions highlights its competitive positioning in a volatile market. InvestingPro analysis shows the company maintains a FAIR financial health score, with a P/E ratio of 13.66x and a beta of 1.23, indicating moderate market sensitivity. For deeper insights into PMT’s financial health and valuation metrics, investors can access the comprehensive Pro Research Report, available exclusively to InvestingPro subscribers.
Financial Highlights
- Revenue: Not specified in the earnings summary.
- Earnings per share: -$0.04, missing the forecast of $0.36.
- Dividend declared: $0.40 per share, consistent with previous quarters.
- Book value per share: $15, a modest decline from March 31.
Earnings vs. Forecast
PennyMac reported an EPS of -$0.04, significantly missing the forecasted $0.36. This resulted in a negative surprise of 111.11%, marking a substantial deviation from expectations. The miss is notable compared to previous quarters, where the company had maintained or exceeded earnings forecasts.
Market Reaction
Despite the earnings miss, PennyMac’s stock price increased by 1.64% in aftermarket trading, closing at $12.48. This movement suggests that investors may be focusing on the company’s strategic initiatives and dividend stability rather than the quarterly earnings miss. The stock remains within its 52-week range, with a high of $14.93 and a low of $11.77. According to InvestingPro, analyst price targets range from $13.00 to $15.50, suggesting potential upside. The stock is currently trading near its Fair Value, based on InvestingPro’s proprietary valuation model, which considers multiple factors including earnings, growth, and market conditions.
Outlook & Guidance
PennyMac remains optimistic about its future, expecting continued securitization activity and potential for increased returns if the yield curve steepens. The company is comfortable maintaining its $0.40 dividend level and anticipates a potential run rate increase towards $0.40 per share. Future EPS forecasts for upcoming quarters remain positive, with projections ranging from $0.38 to $0.41.
Executive Commentary
CEO David Spector expressed confidence in navigating the volatile market by leveraging PennyMac’s competitive advantages. CFO Dan Parati reiterated the company’s comfort with the current dividend level. Spector also highlighted the robust activity in the private label securitization market, the most active in over 18 years.
Risks and Challenges
- Interest Rate Volatility: Significant fluctuations in interest rates could impact mortgage demand and profitability.
- Market Competition: Intense competition in the securitization market may pressure margins.
- Economic Uncertainty: Broader economic conditions could affect housing market dynamics and investor sentiment.
- Regulatory Changes: Potential changes in housing finance regulations could impact operations.
Q&A
During the earnings call, analysts focused on non-agency securitization returns and strategy. Management confirmed the stability of the book value in July and stated there is no expectation of accelerated prepayments on low-rate mortgages.
Full transcript - PennyMac Mortgage Investment Trust (PMT) Q2 2025:
Conference Operator: Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to PennyMac Mortgage Investment Trust Second Quarter twenty twenty five Earnings Call. Additional earnings materials, including the presentation slides that will be referred to in the call, are available on PennyMac Mortgage Investment Trust’s website at pmt.pennymac.com. Before we begin, let me remind you that this call may contain forward looking statements that are subject to certain risks identified on Slide two of the earnings presentation that could cause the company’s actual results to differ materially as well as non GAAP measures that have been reconciled to their GAAP equivalent in the earnings materials. Now I’d like to introduce David Spector, PennyMac Mortgage Investment Trust’s Chairman and Chief Executive Officer and Dan Parati, PennyMac Mortgage Investment Trust’s Chief Financial Officer. Please go ahead.
David Spector, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, PennyMac Mortgage Investment Trust: Thank you, operator. For the second quarter, PMT produced a net loss to common shareholders of $3,000,000 or a loss per share of $04 as solid levels of income excluding market driven value changes were offset by fair value declines in a $14,000,000 non recurring tax adjustment that Dan will discuss later on. PMT declared a second quarter common dividend of zero four zero dollars per share and book value per share at June 30 was $15 down modestly from March 31. Interest rates were extremely volatile this quarter with the ten year treasury yield traversing a range of more than 70 basis points, including intraday moves in one week in April alone. This created a challenging environment for our investment strategies.
However, our diversified investment portfolio, efficient cost structure and strong risk management practices enable us to effectively manage through these challenging market conditions. Turning to Slide five, I want to touch on our synergistic partnership with PFSI and how that provides PMT with unique and proven competitive advantages. First, PMT leverages PFSI’s best in class operating platform, including its deep and experienced management team, scaled servicing operations and its large and agile multichannel origination business, which provides PMT with a consistent and high quality pipeline of loans for investment. Second, our structure allows PMT to efficiently deploy capital into long term mortgage assets without the operational burdens associated with origination and servicing. And third, PFSI’s deep access to the origination market coupled with PMT’s ability to execute private label securitizations provides PMT with the opportunity to invest in unique organically created investments at attractive risk adjusted returns.
As can be seen on Slide six, the increasing volume of non owner occupied and jumbo loans generated by the PennyMac platform underscores the potential for future investment. And this growing pipeline of loans provides us with flexibility and optionality, allowing us to strategically invest in assets that align with our long term return objectives. In the second quarter, we successfully completed three securitizations of agency eligible investor loans totaling $1,100,000,000 in UPB, retaining $71,000,000 of new investments. And we also completed our first jumbo loan securitization since 2013 with a total UPB of $339,000,000 and retained investments of $82,000,000 The graphic on the right of the slide highlights our rapid ascent to become a leading issuer of private label securitizations. In recent periods, we’ve been a top three issuer of prime non agency MBS.
In fact, since the fourth quarter of twenty twenty four, we have successfully completed nine securitizations totaling $3,200,000,000 in UPB with new retained investments of $300,000,000 Targeted returns on equity for these investments are expected to be in the low to mid teens. Looking ahead, we expect to continue executing one securitization of agency eligible non owner occupied loans per month and one jumbo loan securitization per quarter. This consistent cadence of securitizations underscores our commitment to leveraging our organic investment creation abilities and remaining a leader in the private label securitization market. Turning to Slide seven, approximately two thirds of PMT shareholders’ equity is currently invested in a seasoned portfolio of MSRs and the unique GSE lender risk share transactions we invested in from 2015 to 2020. These are highly stable and seasoned assets with strong underlying fundamentals.
Our MSR investments account for approximately 47% of our deployed equity, down from 56% at the high during the end of twenty twenty two. The majority of the mortgages underlying these MSRs remain far out of the money with a weighted average coupon of 3.9%, meaning borrowers have little incentive to refinance. As a result, we expect the MSR asset to continue producing stable cash flows over an extended period of time. Furthermore, MSR values continue to benefit from the higher interest rate environment as the placement fee income PMT receives on custodial balances is closely tied to short term interest rates. Similarly, PMT’s unique credit risk transfer investments, representing 16% of shareholders’ equity, are backed by seasoned loans with strong fundamentals that were originated during periods of low interest rates.
Delinquencies have remained low on this portfolio as well. This can be attributed to the overall credit strength of the consumer combined with the substantial accumulation of home equity in recent years due to continued home price appreciation as evidenced by the low weighted average current loan to value ratio of below 50%. We continue to expect that realized losses will be limited and that these core investments will perform well over the foreseeable future. As you can see on Slide eight, a significant portion of PMT’s equity is allocated to investments that we have organically created through PennyMac’s robust production volumes. This is a key differentiator for PMT.
Because we are the producer and servicer of the loans, we have unparalleled insight into their quality and performance. Our position as the producer of the underlying loans is a competitive advantage, providing us with the ability to review and diligence the loans for securitization and subsequent investment. Additionally, as the servicer of the underlying loans, we are uniquely positioned to work directly with borrowers in times of stress to minimize losses as evidenced by the strong historical performance of our investments in lender credit risk transfer. This deep understanding from origination through servicing allows us to directly influence the ultimate credit outcome, minimizing losses and maximizing returns for our shareholders. In closing, our risk management capabilities and diversified investment strategies, which includes seasoned MSR and CRT portfolios, combined with a growing securitization platform built on our unique origination capabilities, positions us exceptionally well to deliver attractive risk adjusted returns to our shareholders in 2025 and beyond.
We remain confident in our ability to successfully navigate a volatile and evolving market by leveraging our competitive advantages. Now I’ll turn it over to Dan, who will review the drivers of PMT’s second quarter financial performance and PMT’s run rate return potential.
Dan Parati, Chief Financial Officer, PennyMac Mortgage Investment Trust: Thank you, David. PMT reported a net loss to common shareholders of $3,000,000 in the second quarter or negative $04 per diluted common share. The Credit Sensitive Strategies contributed $22,000,000 to pretax income. Gains from organically created CRT investments were $17,000,000 including $9,000,000 primarily consisting of realized gains and carry and $8,000,000 of market driven value changes from credit spread tightening. CAS and stacker bonds generated gains of $4,000,000 and investments in PMT non agency subordinate MBS generated gains of $1,000,000 The interest rate sensitive strategies contributed a pretax loss of $5,000,000 Fair value increases on MSR investments were $23,000,000 These fair value increases were more than offset by the combined impact of changes in the fair value of MBS, interest rate hedges and related income tax benefits totaling $45,000,000 MBS fair value, which includes agency POs and securitized interest only strips, increased by $12,000,000 Interest rate hedges decreased by $60,000,000 In the second quarter, PMT reported an income tax expense of 9,000,000 driven primarily by a $14,000,000 nonrecurring repricing of deferred tax balances due to state apportionment changes driven by recent legislation.
The fair value of PMT’s MSR asset at the end of the quarter was $3,800,000,000 down slightly from March 31 as fair value increases and newly originated MSR investments were more than offset by runoff. Delinquency rates for borrowers underlying PMT’s MSR portfolio remain low and servicing advances outstanding decreased to $70,000,000 from $84,000,000 at March 31. No principal and interest advances are currently outstanding. Total correspondent loan acquisition volume was $30,000,000,000 in the second quarter, up 30% from the prior quarter and consistent with the estimated increase in the size of the overall origination market. Correspondent loans acquired for PMT’s account totaled $3,000,000,000 up 11% from the prior quarter.
PMT retained 17% total conventional correspondent production in the second quarter, down from 21% in the first quarter. Under the renewed mortgage banking services agreement with PFSI, effective 07/01/2025, correspondent loans are initially acquired by PFSI. However, PMT will retain the right to purchase up to 100% of non government correspondent production from PFSI. We expect this percentage to remain between 15% to 25% in the 2025 as we continue pursuing investment opportunities in the private label securitization market. PMT also acquired $1,000,000,000 in UPB of loans acquired or originated by PFSI for inclusion in private label securitizations, up from $637,000,000 in the prior quarter.
Income from PMT’s Correspondent Production segment was $14,000,000 up from the prior quarter, primarily due to gains on non owner occupied and jumbo loans due to credit spread tightening. The weighted average fulfillment fee rate was 19 basis points unchanged from the prior quarter. In total, PMT reported $36,000,000 of net income across its strategies excluding market driven value changes and the related impacts, down from $41,000,000 in the prior quarter, driven primarily by increased realization of cash flows due to higher realized and projected prepayment activity. Slide 14 of our earnings presentation outlines the run rate return potential expected from PMT’s investment strategies over the next four quarters. PMT’s current run rate reflects a quarterly average of $0.38 per share, up from $0.35 per share in the prior quarter.
Overall, we expect increased investment activity in accretive non agency subordinate and senior bonds, primarily through organic securitization activity. Additionally, correspondent and aggregation activities have positive momentum, driving improved execution and an overall increase to our correspondent production segment’s return potential. If the yield curve steepens further, we expect TMT’s overall run rate would increase further driven by higher overall yields in the interest rate sensitive strategies. Turning to capital. In June, we issued 105,000,000 in unsecured senior notes due in 02/1930, and we currently expect that the $345,000,000 in exchangeable senior notes due in 2026 will be retired closer to maturity by utilizing capacity from existing financing lines.
I want to take a minute to comment on PMT’s overall leverage ratio, which has increased in recent quarters. The increase is primarily a reflection of growth in nonrecourse debt related to our increased private label securitization activity and the related accounting treatment for these transactions, which requires us to record the transactions as the financing of the loans rather than retain interest in the securitizations. The source of repayment for this nonrecourse debt is limited to the cash flows from the associated loans in each private label securitization, mitigating any additional exposure to TMC. We believe that the best metric to measure the leverage of our balance sheet is debt to equity excluding the nonrecourse debt related to securitizations, which we have shown on Page 15. This metric incorporates our exposure to the investments we are making in subordinate securities in a similar way to what we have seen in prior periods with our CRT investment, which has similar credit exposures to associated loan performance.
We expect this divergence between total debt to equity and debt to equity excluding non recourse debt to increase in future periods as we continue our retention of investments from our securitization program. Excluding non recourse debt, our debt to equity ratio at June 30 was 5.6 times within the range of our expected and historical levels. We’ll now open it up for questions. Operator?
Conference Operator: We’ll take the first question from Doug Harter, UBS.
Doug Harter, Analyst, UBS: Hoping to talk a little bit more about the non agency securitization opportunity. Can you just talk kind of how the returns progressed over the course of the quarter kind of given the volatility and kind of how you kind of are positioning the risk of that of those holdings, you know, kind of going forward?
Dan Parati, Chief Financial Officer, PennyMac Mortgage Investment Trust: So overall, the the non agency subordinate MBS, we we obviously, during the quarter, had a significant amount of both rate and spread volatility. The nonagency subordinates are fixed rate securities. And so overall, during the quarter, with respect to credit investments, we did see generally credit spread tightening. You can see the reflection of that on the GSE credit risk transfer. We also saw a fair amount of interest rate volatility, and so that led to a slight decline in terms of the fair value of the, the non agency subordinate MBS.
On a, you know, income excluding market driven value changes was in line with our expectations, of really, you know, mid teens or mid to low teens returns. And so, as we continue, as we continue to add our additional additional subordinate investments as well as, non agency senior MBS, We expect those to be to continue to be in the mid mid low to mid teens returns in terms of their, you know, returns through time, and, those are very stable in terms of the, the returns with respect to, you know, reasonable shocks, in terms of credit performance as well. And and so we believe that those are are very stable and accretive investments for us over time.
Doug Harter, Analyst, UBS: Great. And then just as a follow-up, it looks like the amount of retained interest on the jumbo was a much higher percentage relative to the non owner occupied. Can you just talk about, I guess, how high up the stack? And is that was that opportunistic? Or is that something that you would expect to continue on the jumbo side?
Dan Parati, Chief Financial Officer, PennyMac Mortgage Investment Trust: So, with respect to that, we did retain a senior mezzanine tranche on the jumbo securitization. As we look on a deal by deal basis, we are sort of making the decision based on the amount of capital we have to deploy. The jumbo securitization did occur after, we had raised the additional debt, unsecured debt. And so as we’re looking to deploy additional capital, I think at least over the next few periods, it’s likely that we would be retaining, a greater portion of the interest, both the subordinate bonds and the senior mezzanine piece from many of these securitizations, but we do make the decision on a deal by deal basis based on, you know, the capital that we’re looking
Bose George, Analyst, KBW: to deploy. And, look, I think
David Spector, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, PennyMac Mortgage Investment Trust: I think, Doug, the the important thing is that the the team is dynamically managing the portfolio. So as you raise capital and your capital deploy, obviously, deploying it into the subordinate tranches is something that’s more of a long term investment in nature, but there are other tranches you can invest at an appropriate return. But as we’re doing more securitizations, if we need to recycle the capital, we can do so.
Conference Operator: Take the next question from Jason Weaver, Jones Trading.
David Spector, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, PennyMac Mortgage Investment Trust: Hi guys. Hope you’re doing well. Thanks for taking my time to First take my of all, David, I think we’ve talked about this before, but maybe, just an update if you have any insights under possible GSE privatization for the future of credit risk transfer. Yeah. Look.
I think that, right now, we’re we’re not hearing much out of the folks in DC on anything, GSE reform related. The GSEs have been active in their credit risk transfer program using the reinsurance vehicles. And and in terms of the returns of lender CRT, like we were able to do from 2015 to 2020, I don’t see that really on the horizon. And this is what’s so exciting about our nonagency securitization program is the fact that we can create very comparable investments, albeit not as rapidly or not as voluminously, but we can create a similar type investment by doing securitizations. And that’s what, you know, the the team has done a really great job at is being able to really, really issue the securitizations really every every three weeks on a relative basis.
And I think that that’s something that’s really exciting. And so we’re able to take the product that executes better outside the GSEs and be able to create comparable securitizations. Now, you know, obviously, it allows us also to get expertise and real muscle memory if we need to do more. And so if we wanna issue more if there’s if there’s other agency eligible product that executes better outside the GSE, that’s where PMT is in a really advantageous state in the fact that it’s really got this credit investment, you know, thesis that it can can continue to grow credit investments at mid teen returns. And that’s something that we wanna continue to focus on.
We have very good exposure to MSRs and their low rate MSRs where the range of outcomes are much more limited than current no rate MSRs. And so if you combine those with the existing PRT that we have from 2015 to 2020 along with new credit investments, then I think that, you know, you’re gonna continue to see us climbing to consistent mid teen mid teen returns. Got you. And just to refresh, on the three was it three securitizations you’ve done so far this quarter, what sort of execution levels were you getting on your AAAs? What sort of advance rates?
You know, I don’t wanna speak out of scope. We’re getting, know, spreads are spreads are leaning into their types. I mean, you know, we had a really volatile period at the beginning of the quarter, but things, you know, quickly quickly snap back. And so, you know, I don’t wanna be out of school. We’ll we’ll we’ll definitely get back to you with with with, you know, more detailed reporting on on, you know, the embedded leverage.
And, you know, I think, suffice it to say, it beats agency execution by a material amount. And I think that that’s you know, that that was the goal of FHFA and the GSEs was to drive out some of the more non owner occupied and second homes into the into the private label markets, and it’s done a really nice job revitalizing the private label market. I mean, it’s a very active market, and it’s had, you know, benefits not just the agency eligible production, but you can see in the jumbo loan securitization market, that’s become a lot more active. Non QM is running at about a 75,000,000,000 to $80,000,000,000 pace this year. And so it’s really, the most active, robust private label securitization market I’ve seen in our eighteen plus years here at the company.
Jason Weaver, Analyst, Jones Trading: That’s helpful. Thank you, gentlemen.
Bose George, Analyst, KBW: Thank you.
Conference Operator: Next up is Bose George from KBW.
Bose George, Analyst, KBW: Hey, guys. Good afternoon. So in Slide 13, where you have the run rate ROE, it looks like the increase there is really mainly on the rate side. Can you just walk through the drivers of the increase over last quarter?
Dan Parati, Chief Financial Officer, PennyMac Mortgage Investment Trust: Sure. Well, if you really look the, you know, what contributes to the bottom line there, there’s a slight increase in the net interest rate sensitive. I think that is really driven by, some additions on the non agency or addition in terms of the equity allocated to the non agency senior and IO MBS. And so that’s really the retention of those interests from the securitization side that we’re expecting over the next twelve months to help that should given the expected returns from that help push up or slightly increase the net interest rate sensitive strategies. On, we also have an increase or the ROE from correspondent production.
The ROE from correspondent production is also up quarter over quarter based on the the outlook that we have for, really volumes and and margins and the margin activity that we’ve seen, coming into the third quarter, which we expect to which we currently project to persist over the next few quarters. And additionally, additionally, driving up the helping to drive up the the the overall run rate is additional investments in the, the non agency subordinate piece, which also has, you know, returns, which help, pull up the, you know, the rest of the overall forecast and, you know, sort of a greater allocation there.
Bose George, Analyst, KBW: Okay. So the so as you retain more, more sub pieces from the securitization that got the the NII from that is flowing through, the the the the rate sensitive line?
Dan Parati, Chief Financial Officer, PennyMac Mortgage Investment Trust: It’s both. So both the so the if we’re retaining seniors or senior mezz pieces that would flow through the net interest rate sensitive, we, for every securitization, are retaining non agency subordinate MBS, and that flows through the credit sensitive. Both of those are having positive contributions to the run rate.
Bose George, Analyst, KBW: Okay. Okay, great. Thank you.
Conference Operator: Our next question is from Crispin Love, Piper Sandler.
Crispin Love, Analyst, Piper Sandler: Thank you. Good afternoon. Can you just discuss your thoughts on the sustainability of the $0.40 dividend level here? The operating earnings run rate that you discussed improved quarter over quarter, but still slightly below the dividend. And you did mention some ways how you could see that level improve further in the coming quarters.
But curious on you and the Board’s comfortability with the dividend today.
Dan Parati, Chief Financial Officer, PennyMac Mortgage Investment Trust: Yeah. Thanks, Kristen. We continue to be comfortable with the $0.40 dividend level. When we, look at the potential for returns as we’re moving out through the next four quarters at the $0.38 level, which as you noted, you know, from $0.35 really, we think, has the potential to further increase up towards $0.40 If you look at our history, we do place a value in the stability of the dividend and especially with the trajectory and proximity of the run rate currently to the expected dividend. We are comfortable with our position at the $0.40 level currently.
In addition to that, as we look at our taxable income and the taxable income being generated from our strategies, It continues to be, to move toward that $0.40 level as well and be supportive of the $0.40 level. And so, our expectation, is that that taxable income level will be will also be maintained. And as we add additional investments into our that are not in our taxable REIT subsidiary, namely the non agency subordinate and senior MBS, you know, that further bolsters that underlying taxable income supporting the $0.40 dividend level. Great. And then are you able
Crispin Love, Analyst, Piper Sandler: to provide an update on book value in July to date?
Dan Parati, Chief Financial Officer, PennyMac Mortgage Investment Trust: Overall book value in July to date is very stable with respect to where we ended the prior quarter.
Crispin Love, Analyst, Piper Sandler: Great. Thank you. Appreciate you taking my questions.
David Spector, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, PennyMac Mortgage Investment Trust: Thank
Conference Operator: We’ll go next to Eric Hagen, BTIG.
Dan Parati, Chief Financial Officer, PennyMac Mortgage Investment Trust: Thank you, guys. Feels like a lot
Jason Weaver, Analyst, Jones Trading: of attention, a lot more of a concerted effort around finally making reforms to title insurance. We got the new pilots from the GSEs. I mean, when we combine that with really strong HPA, I mean, do you see that potentially driving these low coupon borrowers to mobilize or do a cash out refi at some point?
David Spector, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, PennyMac Mortgage Investment Trust: I don’t. I don’t. I think that it’s gonna help on the purchase side, obviously. But I think that look. We’re seeing we’re seeing on the PFSI side an increasing amount of closed end seconds coming out of low interest rate homeowners.
I think that, you know, anything we can do to drive down the cost is a is a good thing. It’s gonna it’s about $400 alone. But, I think that I’m not I you know, I’m not expecting to really accelerate the prepayment speeds, on the on the low interest rate homes loans.
Jason Weaver, Analyst, Jones Trading: And
Conference Operator: everyone, at this time, there are no further questions. Would like to turn the conference back to David Spector for closing remarks.
David Spector, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, PennyMac Mortgage Investment Trust: Well, thank you, operator, and thank you, everyone, for joining us here today and asking good thoughtful questions. And we’re obviously here for any follow-up that you may have and reach out to Isaac and the team. And thanks again for the time, and I look forward to speaking to all of you in the future.
Conference Operator: And ladies and gentlemen, that does conclude today’s conference. We would like to thank you all for your participation today. We do encourage investors with additional questions to contact our Investor Relations team by email or phone. Thank you.
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