Inotiv at Jefferies Global Healthcare: Strategic Growth and Stability

Inotiv Inc (NASDAQ:NOTV) presented a strategic overview at the Jefferies Global Healthcare Conference 2025 on Wednesday, 04 June 2025. CEO Bob Leisure emphasized the company’s efforts to stabilize and grow, highlighting both progress and challenges. The conference call underscored improved bookings and strategic initiatives aimed at enhancing customer experience and operational efficiency.

Key Takeaways

• Inotiv reported improved bookings in Q1 2024, with a positive start to Q2.
• The Discovery Translational Sciences (DTS) business is recovering, aided by a revamped sales approach.
• Strategies are in place for margin expansion in DSA, focusing on capacity utilization and pricing.
• The company aims for long-term EBITDA targets of $70 million to $100 million.
• Inotiv plans to restructure its capital and improve its balance sheet within the next six months.

Financial Results

• Q1 2024 saw bookings nearing a 1:1 book-to-bill ratio, indicating stronger sales momentum.
• DSA bookings showed significant improvement, driven by targeted segments and client cohorts.
• Large pharma contributed less than 5% of DSA sales, with growth potential in genetic toxicology services.
• RMS margins improved in Q2, with expectations for further gains through cost reductions.
• NHP pricing stabilized over the past year, mitigating margin challenges.

Operational Updates

• DTS recovery is driven by a new scientific and business-to-business sales strategy.
• DSA margins are set to improve through better capacity utilization in medical device and biotherapeutics.
• RMS plans additional cost reductions of $6 million to $8 million to boost margins.
• Colony management services are expanding due to demand for reduced risk and domestic NHP supply.
• Investments are being made to enhance customer experience, focusing on on-time delivery and reduced complaints.

Future Outlook

• Revenue growth is expected from achieving book-to-bill ratios above 1:1 and delighting customers.
• The company anticipates market tailwinds from reduced capacity and higher entry barriers.
• DSA margins could return to 35-40% through fixed cost leverage and operational efficiency improvements.
• Capital allocation will focus on balance sheet improvements and debt restructuring.

Q&A Highlights

• Washington policies have minimal direct impact on Inotiv, with more pronounced stock market reactions.
• Pricing strategies are stronger than the previous year, supporting margin improvements.
• Cross-selling opportunities between safety assessment and discovery services are increasing.
• The company is exploring large pharma opportunities while managing client dominance risks.
• Tariffs are managed through long-term contracts, with a small impact on study costs.
• The SEC investigation concluded with no enforcement action, validating Inotiv’s policies.

Inotiv’s presentation at the Jefferies Global Healthcare Conference 2025 highlighted its strategic focus on growth and operational efficiency. For more details, refer to the full transcript below.

Full transcript - Jefferies Global Healthcare Conference 2025:

Dave Windley, Analyst, Jefferies Healthcare Equity Research: Okay. Okay. Alright. Hi. Good afternoon.

I’m Dave Windley with Jefferies Healthcare Equity Research, CRO coverage. Thanks so much for attending or listening to our twenty twenty five Healthcare Conference here in New York. Our next presenting company is Innative. NOTV is the ticker and the company’s CEO is here with us. Bob Leisure, Beth Taylor here in front of me in the audience.

The company’s CFO is also along with. So Bob, we just said this not to put you on the spot, but you’ve done a lot to stabilize the business. You had a better bookings quarter in the first quarter. And I thought maybe I’d just let you recap that real quickly as we get started.

Bob Leisure, CEO, Innative: Sure. Thank you, Dave. So yes, we did our last release in May. I thought we indicated time that the back half of that quarter ending March 30 seemed to pick up a little momentum. And as a result, we are close to I think one one book to bill and we had, I thought, some momentum going into this quarter.

I indicated in May that I thought that April and May started this quarter off fairly strong. So we’ve come through a couple challenging years. Granted, we’re coming off a couple quarters last year that were pretty weak. So exceeding those quarters hopefully is something that we can do and I think I indicated that I thought the back half of our year would exceed the back half of last year. So I think we’ve gone through a lot.

I think we’ve got a lot behind us. I think we’ve much more integrated, much better value today for our customers than before. And I’m pleased with the momentum and the way it’s coming together this year.

Dave Windley, Analyst, Jefferies Healthcare Equity Research: Yeah, so let’s dig in on that a little bit. So bookings in particular in your DSA segment fared well, certainly better than has been the trend, not only for you, but really for your peers as well. And that’s really despite some policies, some DC noise, etcetera, that could have had impact on the business. So perhaps drill in a little bit and tell us parts, say segments, business lines, client cohorts that were more responsible for the strength in the bookings.

Bob Leisure, CEO, Innative: Yes. So you referred a little bit to the, I think you called it noise out of Washington. Yes, have. We’ve heard a lot of things come out of Washington. Whether tariffs are NIH related, FDA related.

I don’t know that we’ve really seen a change in our business because of some of those comments that have come out of there. I think we’ve seen more of an impact in the stock market at times when the comments come than we have in our business. And I don’t know that our clients refer to it as much, maybe as some of our investors may. So that’s I think addresses, hopefully addresses some of that. What was the back half of the question?

Dave Windley, Analyst, Jefferies Healthcare Equity Research: So within the strength in bookings, were there particular business lines or client sectors, client cohorts that are the drivers?

Bob Leisure, CEO, Innative: Yes, think I alluded to in December and again in May or in January and May that we were looking for hopefully to lead our recovery this year would be the discovery translational sciences business. And then we have our Safety Assessment business and we have our Research Models, of course, and Diet. We were hopeful that this year after seeing a couple year over year declines in Discovery that this should be a much better year for Discovery. And I’ve talked about this a little bit for the last eighteen months, but in the December and January of ’twenty four, basically about eighteen months ago, we changed the way we go to market with discovery, much more of a scientific and a business to business approach. And we built a new sales team and we’ve been adding to that sales team.

And I was hoping we’d start to see some of the benefits of that this year. I believe the first quarter awards year over year were up and the second quarter were a little bit, I think through the first six months we were up a little bit over the first six months of last year. And we’re really hoping to see that trend continue and then go into revenue. I think that’s where we have some low lying opportunities in terms of our margin dollars because that’s a very high fixed cost business. A lot of those increases hopefully will help our margin dollars.

I also talked about, Dave, last quarter, the need for us to improve our DSA margins. And there were a couple of things I think we indicated that would lead towards that. One is using some of the capacity that is available, our fixed cost capacity and some of the scalability that we have as we see some growth in the areas such as the medical device business, biotherapeutics, genetic toxicology, and the discovery businesses, which are ones we invested in a couple years ago and have been taking to market. And the other opportunity I thought could be somewhat in pricing. I think the pricing a year ago at this time was probably some of the weakest.

And I think at this point is stronger than it was and I think the market’s better than it was a year ago. So we’ll look to And then the third thing, think we had some higher cost research models coming through that quarter last quarter. So this quarter, I also hope we’ll be able to see some improvement beginning to take place in margins of the DSA business.

Dave Windley, Analyst, Jefferies Healthcare Equity Research: So you went to discovery first. We were with you last week at your investor meeting in Rockville. The gene talks I’m just kind of interested in laying out the different pieces. So the gene talks and biotherapeutics businesses, for my clarity, are in safety assessment or discovery?

Bob Leisure, CEO, Innative: Safety assessment.

Dave Windley, Analyst, Jefferies Healthcare Equity Research: Safety assessment. And so then the things that are classified in your discovery business, Maybe give me the short list or the top two or three and where are you seeing client uptake there?

Bob Leisure, CEO, Innative: Safety pharmacology discovery is where we’re seeing some improvement. We have really redesigned to sell much more of a scientific approach where we have some scientists that are uniquely respected in the industry. People come for us for the scientists. And I refer to that before as a little bit sometimes maybe if you need brain surgery, you’re going to look for the best brain surgeon. But you’re going to go to the hospital they recommend and stay at the hospital they recommend and you may stay there several nights and get the work done.

So we try to lead with our science and some of our scientists and then sell from that scientific string. And I think that’s worked well for us.

Dave Windley, Analyst, Jefferies Healthcare Equity Research: Are the relative contributions, so if I think about what I might call core safety assessment within DSA, core safety assessment, the new businesses that you’ve added, biotherapeutics, GeneTox, not sure if there’s any other ones there, and then discovery, are they a third, a third, a third? What’s the relative size of

Bob Leisure, CEO, Innative: this business? Discovery’s probably closer to 25% of our DSA business. And then the GeneTox and the Biotherapeutics, the small molecule bioanalytical safety assessment, DART, we consider that to be in our safety assessment business. And that DART reproductive toxicology. Right, Okay.

And so through you talked about

Dave Windley, Analyst, Jefferies Healthcare Equity Research: that we got the book to bill. Your most recent report would have been through March. Your report was in May. And through that time, you were seeing I’m just basically asking the sustainability of the trend. You were seeing that stronger quoting activity continue into the

Bob Leisure, CEO, Innative: I said, yeah. I saw it continuing in the May. We don’t know how the quarter’s going to end up. I guess we tend to look at the trailing 12 instead of month to month or quarter to quarter. So if picked up in March and April and May, so maybe we have two or three months of a trend of it picking up.

I don’t know that that’s enough to say that the trend is sustainable. But I do believe that overall, I’ve reiterated this many times, is that we’re a very small piece of a very large pie. So for us to pick up a little bit of market share is very meaningful for us. And I think that if we do a great job with the increased sales force that we have of bringing in a few new customers and doing a great job of delivering so we have great repeat customers, increasing the type of work that they bring and do for us. They have a great experience with one facility, maybe they’re going to use us for multiple services, then I think we have the opportunity to grow.

But that is very, very dependent on creating a great client experience. And that is something we have to track and we’re trying to make sure that we are very important to us, we maintain that experience and see if we can’t grow that reoccurring customer base. So that is the other trend we’re looking at. Not churning customers, but are we really winning a great reoccurring customer base.

Dave Windley, Analyst, Jefferies Healthcare Equity Research: Got it. Okay. So then on that front, are you tracking? Guessing you are. And how has the repeat business percentage trended over the last, say, year or so?

Bob Leisure, CEO, Innative: I think we’re much better today than we were a year ago. Track the on time delivery and the customer complaints and customer satisfaction. Those are key metrics for us, I think, in growing our business. We want to be the first call, not the second call. We don’t want to really necessarily have to compete on price.

So the key is how can we be that first call? And I think it’s about delivering that integrated science and delivering it on time and with some speed. So I think that our systems, and it’s taken us two or three years to build these systems, the HR systems, project management system, communication systems, and the culture to start getting that right. The better we are there, then I think the more that we control our own destiny and we’re that first call. And that’s really what we’re trying to do.

It’d be great to have some tailwinds and have the market pick up. And maybe that’s happening a little bit, maybe it’s not. I don’t think we have enough data points for us to make that statement.

Dave Windley, Analyst, Jefferies Healthcare Equity Research: Got it. Correct me if I’m wrong, it seems like you make these investments in customer experience, the first thing you might see is better repeat business and along with that you’d see an improving win rate. Can you put metrics on either one of those?

Bob Leisure, CEO, Innative: We can put metrics on both of those and we also can look at how many sites and how many services that client may be buying. So if he’s coming initially to us for GeneTox, is he moving into other services as he has a positive experience with one facility or one site? Is he expanding that across other places saying, I had a good site, good experience, we can grow. And I think we maybe even had a chart about that on the Analyst Day about the growing clients using multiple sites.

Dave Windley, Analyst, Jefferies Healthcare Equity Research: Got it. Okay. From a client cohort standpoint, so generally think about given the size of the company and in safety assessment and thinking about some of your commentary from probably as much as two or three years ago that your focus was primarily smaller, maybe SMID biotech, small and mid biotech. But in this most recent quarter, you highlighted that some large pharma business was a call out positive. I think you kind of educated me on there are certain parts of your business where you have regularly done large pharma work.

But just maybe explain how large pharma is becoming more important to the business.

Bob Leisure, CEO, Innative: Put this in perspective. Large pharma, small and middle sized pharma is an important customer to us and as are the biotechs. When you look at large pharma though, that’s probably less than 5% of our DSA sales. It is an RMS customer, but less than 5% of our DSA sales. Where we have seen some increase with the large pharma may come to us specifically for genetic toxicology or for some of the discovery services that we may have that are unique.

Probably coming to us more for science than they are for just using a can you read a slide or do you have a vivarium room available? So where we can separate ourselves a little bit and some of the skill sets, usually with science, then we have seen pharma come, large pharma come into our business model. And I think that’s something that we’re not afraid of specifically with the discovery business and the GeneTox business.

Dave Windley, Analyst, Jefferies Healthcare Equity Research: Okay, so I was going to follow-up with is that an area given say more stringent audit and kind of administrative expectations or hurdles that kind of go along with serving big pharma, the competition you’re going to see from the bigger players in big pharma, payment terms and all the things that are a little bit less attractive in big pharma. Is that an area of pursuit or is it more we’ll take it if it comes?

Bob Leisure, CEO, Innative: I would say, area of pursuit, we talk and communicate and it’s not undesirable business. But I would say we’re not seeking out it largely. They could overwhelm discovery business is not that big and we want to make sure we’re delivering a great experience for all those clients. So we really can’t be overwhelmed by one client wanting to dominate one site and dominating the science. We’ve got to make sure that we have a very responsive culture to all clients.

And sometimes we get a little concerned if any one client thinks they’re going to dominate our business or our science. That being said, obviously everybody likes revenue and sales and we’re not going turn it away. Sure.

Dave Windley, Analyst, Jefferies Healthcare Equity Research: So I think if I understood your answer from earlier about discovery versus safety assessment, it’s $25.75 in terms of the mix of the segment. What kind of cross sell agnostic to client base? So I’m not talking specifically large pharma, but just thinking about the segment in general, how much cross selling do you get between safety assessment and discovery? Do you see either cross sell backward or pull through from discovery to safety assessment?

Bob Leisure, CEO, Innative: We’re starting to see more of that. As I said, looking at the multiple sites and multiple services and providing that experience. And that translational science is important. What we learn in the discovery stage can be used in the safety assessment stage or vice versa. So I think we’re starting to see more of that.

And I think that creates maybe a stickier relationship for us where they’re coming to us with the science and integration science and interpretation of the data, not just for delivering data itself.

Dave Windley, Analyst, Jefferies Healthcare Equity Research: Got it. Okay. So let’s transition a little bit to RMS. Fiscal 2Q had solid margin improvement. Do you think that’s a trajectory that can continue?

We spent a little bit of time at the Investor Day talking about the remaining cost outs in that business. So maybe walk us through that.

Bob Leisure, CEO, Innative: I think there was a bright spot in that quarter. The margins were starting to come back and normalize, I believe, where they should be. I think we have a few points we can gain there as we have referred to additional 6 to 8,000,000 of cost to take out of that segment of the business. I think we also have some new capacity coming on board to increase our quality management services, which should be fairly good margins to us. So I think there’s some room for improvement but it’s good to see us get back to the mid twenties and hopefully we can take a little bit up from there.

We kind of gave a longer term goal where we thought we would be and that’s, you know, you’ll notice in those goal numbers other than the cost coming out and maybe small growth. We didn’t identify that we were going to look for a lot of growth in those areas. I should point out that business model that we outlined also didn’t show a lot of NHP growth. And the NHP volume right now compared to where it was two or three years ago, two years ago, three years ago, as a country, we would import 30,000 a year of NHPs. Now we import, as a country, about 16,000 a year.

So obviously the market is much smaller. I think we’ve maintained our market share, but I do think that I don’t see the market returning back to 30,000. I don’t think they’re available to bring that kind of HPs back into this market right now. And so we don’t project a strong recovery or any recovery really coming back from the importation of any additional HPs into the market.

Dave Windley, Analyst, Jefferies Healthcare Equity Research: Okay. So that speaks to NHP volume. What about NHP pricing at this point? Is that stable? Are we still lapping higher

Bob Leisure, CEO, Innative: think for the last twelve months, it’s remained a lot more stable. I think last year at this time, we had a lot of higher cost in HPs that were going through the system. But by the end of the year, the pricing stabilized and came down. And the price that we’re our cost, I should say. And the price that we’re selling for maybe stayed within a 10% range for the last twelve months.

So, you know, we had a little bit of margin challenges where we had the higher price cost of NHPs coming through while the price had already come down. But I think now we’re back in a normal range, and it would be nice to see it stay in this range for a while. I think that fluctuations, you know, frustrates the industry. It’s tough for us, tough for a lot of people. So hopefully this is, we’re more and more in a stable environment.

But as I’ve learned over the last three or four years, that environment can change and that’s why we’ve had to diversify our customer base, our supply base, the countries, and why we’ve increased our calling management services and third party boarding and breeding to reduce our reliance on that importations of HPs and that

Dave Windley, Analyst, Jefferies Healthcare Equity Research: So a couple of tangents on this. One, I guess tariffs. To what extent are tariffs impacting the business? And I think predominantly it’s an NHP impact if any.

Bob Leisure, CEO, Innative: Really, we see a tariff, it’s going to be in the NHP industry and it’s on the cost of the product, not the service. And people need to remember that. I think that’s so that there are a lot of services added in that HP business before we sell it. It’s not on the sale price, it’s on the cost of the product. We have talked with our customers and we’ve talked with our suppliers to mitigate these potential cost increases.

We do have long term contracts. We view this as a bit of an unusual item. We treat it more like a surcharge, if you will. But if you look at the overall cost of that tariff compared to the study, you know, it’s probably relatively small. Maybe less than 1% of a study.

That NHPs can be used in the study, there’s a lot of revenue coming from that NHP. So I don’t think it’s, know, maybe adding a point or less to the overall cost of a study, if you will, from that tariff. So it’s not as a big issue as I think some people have made it out to be. And our customers and suppliers are working with this. We’ve been able to try to mitigate some of that.

Dave Windley, Analyst, Jefferies Healthcare Equity Research: And on the mitigation strategies, I think you really have a, I mean your colony management services are a strategy that really predates the threat of tariffs. But they could serve as a mitigant to tariffs, yes?

Bob Leisure, CEO, Innative: Very much so. And I think it also, when we talk about colony management, some of these are third party services. And of what people are looking to is reduce the risk. And the more that they either have their HP’s domestically that they can count on that they need, or they begin boarding and breeding domestically, they view that they’re reducing their risk. And that’s what we’re seeing, you know, good growth.

Now it’s capital investment to create the facilities and have the you know, we’ve we’ve created now the infrastructure, the electric, the water. It’s like developing a community. You have to have all those things in place before you build your house. So the last three years, we’ve we’ve built up that infrastructure. We have the ability now to build the houses, if you will.

And we started building those houses. As we can build those, we’ve been increasing that revenue. Some of that is done for third, and a lot of it’s done for third parties. And sometimes we’ll have the third party to actually build that house. So some it’s capital we invested, some it’s capital that third parties will invest.

But I think it’s a business model that will take time to develop. But I think it’s a safer way for large pharma to mitigate risk and for CROs to mitigate risk.

Dave Windley, Analyst, Jefferies Healthcare Equity Research: I have a follow-up question that slipped my mind. You building or you presented last week a bridge, I’ll call it, of EBITDA from your recent run rate up to kind of a first landing spot of about $70,000,000 and a second landing spot of about $100,000,000 of adjusted EBITDA with some relatively high incremental margins on the revenue that you would hope to add from say around 500,000,000 to up to $600,000,000 I guess let’s take that in two steps. First of all, how visible do you see or what parts of that revenue growth do you see as visible to get beyond your current run rate? So talk about revenue first, revenue visibility first.

Bob Leisure, CEO, Innative: Well, it’s one of the reasons why we didn’t get a time frame we were going to do that. Do I feel comfortable that we could do that work and that we have the facilities right now to do that work and the talent, I think the foundation is in place. How quickly can that happen? I think it’s two things. One, continue to delight our customers so that we can grow our existing customer base.

And two, do we pick up any tailwinds? So at one point when we had tailwinds, we saw that we could grow 30% a year back in ’twenty one and ’twenty two. That’s obviously not the time frame we’re in right now. We’re talking about trying to get back to a book to bill of one to one. So, you know, we’d have to, you know, start seeing book to bills of one to one, one point one or 1.2 to one, I think, be able to start seeing some of that growth.

That being said, again, we have seen some, the areas that I have pointed out earlier, we have seen some opportunities to grow in those areas. And so we’ll see how this quarter goes and what we can report in August, See if we can continue to make that kind of momentum that we saw last quarter and take advantage of some of the client feedback that we’re getting.

Dave Windley, Analyst, Jefferies Healthcare Equity Research: Got it. Okay. And then, so if we presume over some period of time the revenue comes, the incremental margins that you’re looking at in that presentation represent contribution after variable? Or Yes,

Bob Leisure, CEO, Innative: that’s why the contributions looks, we have a very obviously high fixed cost structure and a very regulated business and the quality and regulatory nature of our business. So the contributions we’re looking at are the variable contributions. So variable contributions, for example, in our bioanalytical space, our GeneTalk space, which you saw in Rockville, and in Discovery. Those variable contributions are much higher than you may see in a safety assessment where the variable cost might be a little higher.

Dave Windley, Analyst, Jefferies Healthcare Equity Research: Okay. And so have you made, is there cushion essentially in those assumptions for since we’re talking about kind of an undefined period of time, labor inflation or project overruns or whatever that you know, or does the execution kind of have to be perfect to get that level of incremental margin?

Bob Leisure, CEO, Innative: No, I don’t think perfect is where we need to go. We did anticipate some additional increase in cost in that roll forward, I believe, and specifically in labor. But no, back three years ago, the TSA business was running at 35% gross margins. Right now, our margins are almost, and last quarter, we’re 10 to 12 points below that in the DSA business. We’re also seeing the, and we’re seeing the RMS margins recover.

So I do think that we’ve demonstrated historically we could get back there. We did build some facilities out, added to the fixed cost structure. But as we can grow and take advantage of that fixed cost structure, I think we can bring that back up in the 35 to 40 range. I think we have that kind of opportunity. So we were not that aggressive in putting those kind of 35% to 40% margins in that go forward goal.

But I think those opportunities probably exist. If we had a little tailwind in this industry, I think the barrier to entry has really probably gone up quite a bit between the regulatory and the compliance and some of the issues that we’ve dealt with regularly. So I think that we have less capacity coming on the market while over the last three or four years, we have less. Some people have taken capacity out of the market. And some of the small players are not expanding.

So I think a little bit of recovery will go a long way to creating some tailwinds and helping probably a little bit of margin improvement also.

Dave Windley, Analyst, Jefferies Healthcare Equity Research: Got it. And then as a last one, I noticed there was a headline about closure of the SEC investigation with no enforcement action. I don’t know if there’s any color you can add to that. I guess the practical question I have is does that cut off a tail of say legal expense that you’ve been incurring that frees up a little cash flow?

Bob Leisure, CEO, Innative: Well, having all those issues behind us always helps. I know that we’d had an inquiry from the SEC in quite a while. And matter of fact, except for when we filed eight ks, it’s probably not on top of my mind. But it was really nice to get that letter and one more validation that somebody has looked at it and doesn’t have an issue. It’s like anytime we get audited, these are bittersweet.

They have come in and we get audited frequently by a lot of organizations. I would tell you, it’s great to have the audit because it’s great to have a clean bill of health when they’re done. And as a CEO, that’s just an extra level of comfort. So it’s kind of a bittersweet thing. Yeah, it’s bitter to go through it.

It’s nice when you get the letter and they’re verifying that your policies and procedures are in place. And as a CEO, I think that’s pretty important. It’s just a little painful going through it. And I can’t say there’s any joy going through it, but it’s nice to see the other side of it.

Dave Windley, Analyst, Jefferies Healthcare Equity Research: I’ll finish with a question about capital structure. We talked last week about at your Investor Day about your efforts to be really transparent with your lenders, have them involved on a regular basis. You do have some maturities coming up in 2026. Maybe talk about the current dialogue and relationship with your lenders.

Bob Leisure, CEO, Innative: Well, I will say that I’ve been dealing with lenders for thirty or forty years and I think we’ve got a very good group of lenders that we have done a very good job of communicating with. And I’ve said this before, we set up virtual meetings monthly. They’re welcome to attend. We want them to have all the updates and we try to see them in person two, three times a year. And they’re a very knowledgeable group.

I’m very thankful for that. So we’ve talked to them regularly. We’re all aware that when the maturity dates are coming up. I don’t, you know, and I’ve used the word that we want to be opportunistic in fixing our balance sheet. Today, I think this probably will be one of our top, one of my top focuses in the next six months is if we can start to find ways to improve our balance sheet and restructure some of those financings.

I think operations, we’re in good shape. Compliance, we’re in excellent shape and investments. And I think our team is in good shape. So I think the market’s right in saying what are you going to do about it? I think they’re right in pointing out that it should be and it will be one of our top priorities for the next six months.

So one thing at a time and we’ll address that. I don’t think, we’ve got eighteen months with the senior and still I think thirty months before the converts mature. I think we’ll find a solution. I think we’re being proactive and it’s not time to panic about that.

Dave Windley, Analyst, Jefferies Healthcare Equity Research: Okay, I think we’re out of time. Thank you, Bob, for attending and giving us your thoughts. And to the audience for listening in, good luck with the rest of the conference.

Bob Leisure, CEO, Innative: Thank you.

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