Nasdaq at Global Exchange and Trading Conference: Strategic Insights

On Thursday, 05 June 2025, Nasdaq Inc (NASDAQ:NDAQ) participated in the Global Exchange and Trading Conference. The discussion, led by Chair and CEO Adena Friedman, offered a strategic overview of Nasdaq’s current position and future prospects. While expressing optimism about the IPO market and advancements in AI, Friedman also acknowledged challenges such as tariff impacts and the need for regulatory compliance.

Key Takeaways

• Nasdaq is optimistic about an increase in IPO activity in the second half of 2025, especially in AI and fintech sectors.
• The "One Nasdaq" strategy aims for $100 million in cross-selling by 2027, with 15% of the fintech pipeline already in cross-sells.
• Nasdaq is advancing in AI integration across its operations, expecting to enhance efficiency and margins.
• Expansion in Texas is underway with a new regional headquarters in Dallas, engaging with 900 clients.
• Nasdaq plans to launch twenty-four-five trading in the second half of 2026, pending regulatory approval.

Financial Results

• IPO Market: Friedman is optimistic about the IPO market opening up, particularly for AI and digital companies.
• "One Nasdaq" Strategy: Aims to achieve $100 million in cross-selling opportunities by 2027, with significant progress in fintech.
• Index Business: Strong performance with 50% of inflows in non-Nasdaq 100 products over the past year.
• M&A Strategy: Focused on organic growth and deleveraging, with potential for small acquisitions.
• AI Implementation: Expected to drive margin expansion and accelerate product development.

Operational Updates

• "One Nasdaq" Strategy: Progress is on track with enhanced team collaboration and client data tracking.
• Market Modernization: New contracts for Nasdaq Eclipse, aimed at improving trading, clearing, and settlement.
• Anti-Financial Crime: High demand, especially among small and medium businesses, with expansion into Europe.
• Texas Expansion: New headquarters in Dallas, with engagement of over 900 clients, including 200 listed clients.
• Twenty Four/Five Trading: Targeted launch in the second half of 2026, focusing on regulatory compliance.

Future Outlook

• IPO Market: Continued optimism for increased activity in the latter half of the year.
• "One Nasdaq" Strategy: On track to meet cross-selling targets by 2027.
• Market Modernization: Growth expected in trading and clearing technology, especially in crypto markets.
• Texas Expansion: Ongoing investment to strengthen client services and promote reforms.
• AI: Integration across products and operations is expected to expand margins over time.

Q&A Highlights

• IPO Pipeline: Constructive discussions with companies ready to go public, indicating pent-up supply.
• Tariff Uncertainty: Initial delays have normalized, with strong demand for Nasdaq’s solutions.
• Crypto and Tokenization: Exploring opportunities while monitoring regulatory developments.
• Twenty Four/Five Trading: Addressing investor protection concerns in after-hours trading.
• M&A: Emphasis on organic growth and deleveraging over large-scale acquisitions.

For a detailed understanding, readers are encouraged to refer to the full transcript of the conference call.

Full transcript - Global Exchange and Trading Conference:

Patrick Molley, Senior Research Analyst, Piper Sandler: Alright, everyone. Welcome back to the twenty twenty five Piper Sandler Global Exchange and Trading Conference. I’m Patrick Molley, senior research analyst covering the exchanges, brokers, and trading companies. Our next guest, we’re joined by Nasdaq’s chair and CEO, Adena Friedman. Nasdaq is a global exchange operator and financial technology company that services a broad range of financial market participants.

Adena’s been CEO of Nasdaq for, I think almost ten years now.

Adena Friedman, Chair and CEO, Nasdaq: About eight and a half.

Patrick Molley, Senior Research Analyst, Piper Sandler: Eight and a half. Okay. Eight and a half. And since you’ve taken over, Nasdaq’s undergone a pretty significant strategic pivot toward more of a financial technology firm, but we do appreciate you continuing to to take part in the exchange conference. So, we’ve seen a lot of volatility in the first half of the year.

People were pretty optimistic, I think, coming in that we would see a reopening of the capital markets in the IPO window. From the beginning of the year to now, how is the, you know, your conversations with clients been and how does the IPO pipeline look? Does it seem like things are opening up?

Adena Friedman, Chair and CEO, Nasdaq: So, mean, it has been a different start to the year than I think people are envisioning when we were going through it, but it has, it’s interesting. First of all, the underpinning of The US economy continues to show strength and I think that’s what, and resilience, which I think has helped because as we’ve been managing through a lot of changes in the overall environment, we’re able to show that the data’s still coming out to show that the economy’s working, people are continuing to put capital to work, companies are putting capital to work, they’re investing. The capital markets have gone through a lot of volatility, but that’s also starting to kind of moderate, so that there’s a little bit more of an opportunity probably for the IPO window to really open up. And, you’re starting to see companies get out, you know, go out, get out, do well. I think that’s gonna hopefully, hopefully create some momentum.

And, lots of very, very constructive conversations with companies wanting to come out into the public markets ready. They’ve been getting themselves ready, in some cases, for a couple years, and so, a lot of pent up supply, and I also feel like investors are realizing that this is an environment that’s gonna be relatively persistent, so let’s start deploying capital and figure out where we want to put our dollars and therefore, the companies that are getting out are doing pretty well. So, we’re optimistic that we could see more activity as we go through the summer and into the second half of the year.

Patrick Molley, Senior Research Analyst, Piper Sandler: Any specific sectors where you’re seeing the most engagement?

Adena Friedman, Chair and CEO, Nasdaq: Well, you’re certainly seeing it in anything related to like AI technology, the financial services, right? So, Fintech has been an interesting space. We have, I know that Chime’s out in doing their marketing now. And then, also, anything I would say in the digital space because you have to think about what’s gonna, how are investors gonna be able to evaluate companies in different sectors? And, in sectors that are more impacted by the potential of the tariff environment, it’s gonna be harder for investors to predict the future of those companies.

And so, I think those companies are taking a little bit more of a wait and see approach. Whereas, companies that are in the digital economy, that are less affected or are really kind of more domestically oriented, those companies are finding that it’s, you know, the investors are more ready to put risk capital to work. So, are the types of companies that are coming out.

Patrick Molley, Senior Research Analyst, Piper Sandler: So, in terms of the sales cycle earlier this year, you’d indicated that you were seeing some delays in customer decision making as a result of some of the tariff uncertainty. At the time, I think you said that these were idiosyncratic. How has that sales cycle kind of evolved throughout all the tariff volatility that we’ve seen? Are you seeing that, you know, improve at all?

Adena Friedman, Chair and CEO, Nasdaq: Yeah, so first of all, you’re right that it was very specific to certain conversations, particularly within The US and within one of our product areas that, you know, I think that we saw some conversations were just like, well, let’s understand what’s happening around us a little bit more before we continue. Those conversations have normalized and so, I would say that the overall demand orientation around our financial technology solutions is quite strong. It’s very healthy. There are conversations all over the world, and our teams are very busy engaging with our clients on making sure that they’re choosing us, and that we’re moving forward with all those product implementations. So, it’s it’s a feels like a health, quite a healthy environment, and I would say that we feel that we’re really well positioned competitively with our products to be able to to continue to drive the business forward very successfully.

Patrick Molley, Senior Research Analyst, Piper Sandler: So, at Investor Day last year, and you’ve meant, you’ve talked about it on the calls, but this idea of the one Nasdaq strategy in bringing your products to business, or to customers across the three business lines. How has this strategy been working out for you and the target that you laid out of a hundred million in cross sell, cross selling opportunities by the end of twenty twenty seven, how have you progressed toward that goal?

Adena Friedman, Chair and CEO, Nasdaq: Yeah, so I think we’re progressing as we would expect. You know, it’s still early days, so the first thing is we had to get our teams working together. The second thing is we had to get our client data in state where we could really track that, but not only track it, but also find where the opportunities are and make sure we’re engaging our clients in a holistic way. And, the third thing is, of course, culturally, we want to make sure we’re aligning incentives and behaviors and everything to gear towards being able to achieve that target. And, I would say we’re very much on track along all three of those areas, as well as the fact that our clients are excited to work with us on more.

So, when we go out and when Tal or I or Valerie, we go out and talk to our clients, their first inclination is, well what more can you do for us? And, oh, I didn’t know that you had that. Let’s talk more about that. And, opening the doors across the banks is something that I think we’re getting better and better at. But right now, I think as we’ve mentioned on the second, second quarter, no, the first quarter call, sorry, on the first quarter call, about 15% of our Fintech pipeline is in cross sells, and as long as we are able to close deals that are consistent with our pipeline, we feel very good about that one that $100,000,000 target, just in terms of kind of the trajectory of sales going forward.

Patrick Molley, Senior Research Analyst, Piper Sandler: And, I think, that did that jump from 10 to 15 in the quarter?

Adena Friedman, Chair and CEO, Nasdaq: Yeah, and it’s gonna ebb and flow, so I don’t want people to think it’s gonna be constant 15 or constant 10, because obviously when we close a deal, then that comes out of the pipeline, and so then you to replenish the, you know, replenish the pipeline. So, that’s gonna ebb and flow a bit, so I don’t want people to over read it. But the general tenor of it being in the 10 ish percentage point, that’s a good place for us to be.

Patrick Molley, Senior Research Analyst, Piper Sandler: Are there any, you mentioned that you’d, you’d, were finding it easier to, or you’re engaging banks and seeing that they have a need for more products. Any specific anecdotes you can give on what those opportunities might be and where that you’re seeing the most traction?

Adena Friedman, Chair and CEO, Nasdaq: Yeah, I mean, well, I do actually think we have strong demand in every vector of our product suite, and that’s exciting. So, if we look at the fact that surveillance, we’ve had some new regulations come out, we’ve had also just, we’ve actually been able to move more into the crypto space there, as well as in the investment management space around our surveillance solutions. So, the demand there is very good. Market modernization continues to be a broad based theme across markets in term, and you’re seeing us, hopefully you’re seeing that, we’re doing really well in signing new contracts for our next gen solution, which we have finally named Nasdaq Eclipse. So, that is Eclipse Trading, Eclipse Clearing, Eclipse Settlement.

We’re very excited about a lot of new signings there and our work to continue to modernize markets, as well as with our partnership with AWS on their infrastructure. And then, with Calypso, it’s just people are wanting to make sure that they’re modernizing their capabilities around risk management, they’re standardizing them across the world and across asset classes, and we continue to build out new capabilities there and also, we’re doing some really cool things in terms of bringing more AI capabilities into the risk management side that I think will continue to really accrue to our benefit and demand. Acxiom SL is just a constant demand driver around changes in regulation. The ability for bank is moving down, it’s moving across, but also banks are growing, like they’re looking at new ways to grow and that means that they have to deal with new regulators. And then lastly, of course, in our anti financial crime suite, it is just an incredible demand driver for anti financial crime technology.

Our solution is very differentiated, we’re proving that out. We’re doing really well within the SMB space, that’s the small to medium banks, really well as we continue to move up market. We’re just starting to move into Europe and getting some POCs running, but it’s very early days there.

Patrick Molley, Senior Research Analyst, Piper Sandler: We’ve talked a lot today with other folks about market modernization, whether it’s twenty four seven trading, whether it’s tokenization. It seems like there’s a lot that’s building and there’s going to be new challenges and and things that people need to manage, you know, in terms of the risks. It seems like this would present a big opportunity for you, whether it’s in surveillance and things like that. Crypto specifically and tokenization is one. So, how do you view those two or that pocket of the market?

What role do you think Nasdaq plays there going forward and what opportunities it open up for you?

Adena Friedman, Chair and CEO, Nasdaq: Yeah. I mean, first of all, I think that the regulatory environment around crypto exchanges in The United States is continuing to be formed. So, we wanna make sure we understand what that landscape looks like as we consider, you know, our role specifically in that space in The United States. But, as a market technology provider, we’re already providing trading and clearing technology to crypto markets, surveillance technology, we’re definitely seeing, that’s definitely a growth lane for us. And, we also are thinking about it in terms of the more that cryptocurrencies become bankable, and therefore they go into the banking system, and the more that stable coin is actually becomes normalized, like if that stable coin legislation, other things come, taking out the friction, there’s a lot of opportunity to take friction out of the financial system.

Just through the technology that underpins it, so the tokenization, as you said, of the industry. So, one example is the flow of collateral and how we can help facilitate and break down friction in the flow of collateral globally because we are the number one collateral management solution for the industry through our Klipso platform, and if we can help them then manage that collateral in a more modern way, leveraging Stablecoin and other tokenized technology. We’re pretty excited about how we can use our technology assets to bring it forward, and then of course, we list ETFs and very excited to be the home of iBit, you know, and other crypto ETFs, And then, we’ll have to look at what are the other opportunities in front of us as the regulatory environment becomes more clear.

Patrick Molley, Senior Research Analyst, Piper Sandler: So, gears, the index business has continued to impress. I think, you know, revenues have surprised to the upside for like the last five quarters. Can you walk us through the strength that you’ve seen here and what you feel like is driving the outperformance?

Adena Friedman, Chair and CEO, Nasdaq: Mhmm, and I think we do a pretty good job of providing, first, just overall transparency into the index business, but also this alpha beta split that we’re now disclosing to our investors that Sarah introduced, I think is really helpful to say, well, what’s really our effort that we’re driving forward? You know, where do the markets play a role? And, what we’re seeing is just a really healthy alpha generation within the index business, with a good beta drop, backdrop. And, we have of course, the flagship product with the Nasdaq one hundred, which historically has been really a retail product. And, what we’re now working on is how do we get that more into the institutional ecosystem and we’re starting to, we’re announcing, we’re launching new products, new capabilities around that.

Have a sales team, we have a strategy, that’s one of the vectors of growth. The second is continuing to create new products and broaden and diversify our suite and we’ve talked about the fact that even, I think through the first quarter, we’d already created, I don’t want say the wrong number, I think it was 30 new products or 33 new products in the year. So, in that, we also mentioned that over the last twelve months, like 50% of the inflows were in non Nasdaq one hundred products. So, we are really showing that there’s really exciting new products that we’re bringing to market. And then, the third is globalizing the business.

And, we’ve definitely been much more intentional about using one Nasdaq to open doors around the world and make sure we’re really bringing those indexes around the world. So, all three of those lanes are really good growth drivers driving alpha, with a good beta backdrop for the most part. Obviously, a little more volatility as we go through the year, but overall a good backdrop.

Patrick Molley, Senior Research Analyst, Piper Sandler: We’ve talked to a few people today as well about twenty four seven trading. Earlier this year, you announced that you would look to enable twenty four hour trading in Nasdaq markets. I think the target you set was the second half or sometime in in 2026. What’s driving the demand from your perspective for around the clock trading and what are some of the biggest hurdles and whether it’s, you know, market structure or regulatory that need to be crossed for us to really see that proliferate?

Adena Friedman, Chair and CEO, Nasdaq: Yeah. So, I think first, we’re focused first on twenty four five and it could be that, and I, you know, we’re still, we’re engaging very much with the industry and with the industry infrastructure to say what’s the right paradigm. It could end up being twenty three five at first. Just to accommodate certain things, but I would say, let’s just call it twenty four five. What we, there is retail demand around the world to trade, in particular NASDAQ stocks, And, so we’ve seen ATS’s kind of pop up to facilitate that demand.

And, yet, I think the concern we’ve always had is that the guardrails that really protect investors during the market day in The US, do not exist after hours. You know, and what I like to call non US hours. So, in non US hours, you know, after 04:00 and before 09:30, we don’t have any volatility guards. We don’t, you know, we don’t have all of the things that really kind of make it so that we have the same level of rigor and resilience that is built into the market infrastructure during the regular US hours. So, if we’re going to put our brand and we’re going to bring our markets and bring an exchange into the non US hours, we want to do it right.

So, we said, okay, let’s do it right. Let’s give ourselves the time to do it right. That means having a consolidated tape that facilitates those hours. So, the SIP committees have approved that. That was a big step to get the SIP committees to approve having 24, five distribution of data.

We now have to build that, which we know how to do, but we have to do the work. The second is making sure that from a clearing settlement perspective, that DTCC can accommodate this kind of trading activity, so that we have kind of a seamless capability. The third thing is we just have to make sure we accommodate our own systems. We build those solutions for others, so we know exactly what we need to do, we just need to make sure we’re building out the capability to accommodate it. We will not put that though in like a core match, we’ll have a second matching engine to support the non US hours.

And then, the last thing is just regulatory approvals, which I actually don’t see as a gating issue. So, we could be up and running in a year, but it could take us longer, so we wanted to give ourselves kind of the second half of twenty six to say, let’s get the whole industry ready. The last thing that we really want to make sure though is that we’re bringing the industry with us, including the listed companies. This is their stock. Their stock is gonna be trading.

I think what accommodates the fact that they’re saying, well, it’s already trading. So, let’s make it trade better. Yeah. Let’s put the resilience and everything in place to make it work, but how do we manage corporate actions? How do we make sure that this really does work?

We want to take the time to engage the industry on that, and that’s what we’re spending lot of our time on.

Patrick Molley, Senior Research Analyst, Piper Sandler: So, shifting gears, I think you issued a press release a week or two ago about some of the legislative changes that occurred in the state of Texas. What are your thoughts on, you know, Texas emerging as a capital markets hub more and more? You announced an initiative to launch a regional headquarters in Dallas. I know that you’ve had a big presence in the state in the past, but what do you see, what’s going on down there now? What do you kind of view as the opportunity in Texas going forward?

Adena Friedman, Chair and CEO, Nasdaq: Yeah. I mean, I think we have to look at, first of all, the the Texas economy is a really big economy. We have 900 clients in Texas. Now, that includes about a little over 200 listed clients, and then hundreds of other clients that use other solutions we have to offer, including anti financial crime. We have a, there are a lot of banks in Texas.

Our IR solutions, we serve a lot of non NASDAQ listed companies with investor relations and governance and other things. So, we have a big presence there. The second thing is that it’s a very pro business environment in Texas. And so, and more companies are moving headquarters or establishing themselves in Texas. So, it’s a growth area for us and we want to make sure that we are in the state, engaged in the state, engaged with our clients very, very completely.

I think the third thing is, as you said, that the governor has a very concerted effort to create a capital markets hub in Texas, which we think is great. Know, just more opportunity for us to have great capital markets in The United States. And, what we talk to our clients about though is, let’s make sure we have a really strong presence in Texas, we’re there for our clients to serve them, but they then connect into a global market, with a investor base, and all of the benefits that we provide our listed companies, which are numerous and we make huge investments in that area to serve our clients. So, it’s a very, it’s an exciting time and I also, Texas is leading the way on thinking about certain corporate reforms that are so necessary for this country. Some of them, they can do within the state, some of them we have to advocate in Washington.

We’ve launched an entire blueprint of what needs to change in the regulatory environment in The United States to make the corporate experience less onerous and more constructive to be a public company. A lot of those are very consistent with what the Texas legislature is trying to achieve. So, we’ve been encouraging them, working with them to make sure that our messages that we’re signing down to Washington are also resonating in the state of Texas. So, it’s an exciting time.

Patrick Molley, Senior Research Analyst, Piper Sandler: Yeah, so, we were up here with Lynn Martin earlier, she said that there was some demand from customers that were looking to do a list. Do you know when you’ll have more of a presence down there? I think you’ve announced that you’re gonna open up a regional headquarters. Was there anything being done right now and any timeline you can give us as to when?

Adena Friedman, Chair and CEO, Nasdaq: Well, we’re, we have to, you know, that that’s up to the property management teams. A great work to do there. But, we have a team established there. We have a real presence there already, but we want to make sure we’re building out that presence in a really meaningful and thoughtful way. So, we’re working with our teams to make sure that.

So, I don’t, we don’t have specific dates, but it’s very much in motion.

Patrick Molley, Senior Research Analyst, Piper Sandler: Sure. Alright. Very good. Put M and A has been a big topic of conversation this year for Nasdaq. I think it was, you know, overblown and you were pretty adamant on the call that, you know, you’re not looking to do anything in the short term, but I think that there is a cohort of investors out there that feel like, you know, your strategy longer term is within the next few years, you could look to do a larger scale deal.

What would you say to those folks that kind of think that you’re destined to do a larger deal in the next few years?

Adena Friedman, Chair and CEO, Nasdaq: So, I would say, first of all, we have an incredible organic growth path in front of us, so we have to really make sure that we optimize for that outcome. It’s a hugely high return activity for us to grow organically. We have three really nice lanes of organic growth So, let’s make sure we execute really well. The second thing is we are continuing to delever.

We wanna make sure we’re also, you know, time buying back stock to make sure that we deliver on what Adenda was intended to deliver on, and we feel great about our execution on the agenda transaction, but let’s make sure that we execute, you know, completely for our shareholders across that, and we are very, that is what we’re focused on. Now, we’ve always said that could there be some really small bolt ons? Potentially, but right now, honestly, that organic journey is pretty awesome. So, that’s really where we’re spending our time, our energy, our focus and conversations, and so, that’s the, that’s where we are and where we’re gonna take the company right now.

Patrick Molley, Senior Research Analyst, Piper Sandler: Alright. Great. You spoke on it a little bit earlier, and I know we talked about it last year, but artificial intelligence. When do you expect what areas, I guess, of artificial intelligence are you implementing today, whether it’s on the product side or internally, and when do you expect to generate returns from these investments and can it be supportive of further margin expansion for Nasdaq in the future?

Adena Friedman, Chair and CEO, Nasdaq: Yeah. So, so we have, we talk about AI in two vectors. One is AI in the product and then AI on the business. Definitely the easier part of that is AI in the product, because we have incredible engineers, we have really, we’ve modernized our products, our products have very, for the most part have really good modern data underpinnings, and it’s fun. So, all the development organizations are, you know, we’ve built AI capabilities into all of our product road maps, and so that’s really moving along really nicely.

And, we’ve already launched out a lot of AI capabilities like in anti financial crime, where we’re launching it at similar capabilities in surveillance, on the workflow automation. Obviously, anti financial crime has a huge amount of AI on the detection side too. And then, also have it in, as I mentioned with Klipso, with the XVA accelerator in our markets, Dynamic Mellow, in Board Vantage. Super cool stuff happening there. So, we have a lot going on.

AI on the business, harder. That’s change management. That changes how, you know, changing how you deliver product or develop and deliver product. How you deliver service to your clients. How you think creatively around marketing and other things.

And, so we’ve gone through a journey of maturing our organization to be ready to deploy that at scale and really managing through the change and we’re starting to see the effects of that. The first year was just making sure everyone understood the technology, put it into people’s hands and get them using it. The second year was let’s do, we did six hackathons across hundreds and hundreds, I think actually probably over a thousand of our employees engaged in hackathons to show where we could use this technology to drive efficiency in the business. That was the entire purpose of all of the hackathons. Low code, no code, high code, it was super fun.

But, it also showcased where these, there are pockets of efficiency that can be delivered. Now, we’re saying, okay, now let’s scale this and let’s actually drive it across the business and deliver impact. And we call this, this is the first year of impact. And, that is part of the expansion of our efficiency program was because we saw, we know that we can deliver impact. That’s in product development, that’s in client success, marketing, you know, other places.

But, one of the things that I keep telling our team is, we are a growth business. If we can actually change the way we develop product and deliver product in a way that delivers more capabilities per sprint, higher code quality per sprint, then we can go faster and we can deliver more capabilities to our clients, and therefore we can grow faster. So, that’s the way that we’re approaching it, and I think that that’s keeping people engaged in a really constructive way. So, excited about it, but it’s just the beginning. And, yes, I do think over time there’s margin expansion opportunity.

Patrick Molley, Senior Research Analyst, Piper Sandler: So, we covered a lot of ground today. I think we have time for one more, actually. What do you think the biggest story lines are gonna be over the next five, ten years in the exchange business? Is it gonna be AI? Is it gonna be tokenization?

Four seven trading? Twenty four five trading? What are you kind of

Adena Friedman, Chair and CEO, Nasdaq: There’s so many

Patrick Molley, Senior Research Analyst, Piper Sandler: things, really.

Adena Friedman, Chair and CEO, Nasdaq: I mean, we actually are engaged on all of those. So, when we go through our strategic framework and we talk about the future of our business, we talk, I would say most on AI and tokenization as to two major modernization trends that we wanna make sure that we’re staying in front of or engaged in, but also with our risk profile. You know, we are a hyper resilient business. We are critical infrastructure to The US economy, the Nordic economy. We provide critical infrastructure to economies all over the world, but we can be an innovator and we will be an innovator across whether it’s tokenization or AI.

I personally think AI is a global mega trend, is the biggest global mega trend that this world has seen and will see for quite some time. But, of course, in our business and in the financial industry, the broadening out of tokenization into the traditional finance world is exciting and very interesting.

Patrick Molley, Senior Research Analyst, Piper Sandler: Okay. Alright, great. Well, that about does it. Thank you so much for joining us, Adina. It’s been great.

Adena Friedman, Chair and CEO, Nasdaq: Great. Thank you very much.

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