Riskified at JPMorgan Conference: Strategic Growth and Challenges

On Thursday, 15 May 2025, at the 53rd Annual JPMorgan Global Technology, Media and Communications Conference, Riskified Ltd (NYSE:RSKD) outlined its strategy for tackling online fraud and expanding its services for e-commerce merchants. The company highlighted its achievements and future plans, while also addressing the challenges posed by increasingly sophisticated fraud tactics.

Key Takeaways

• Riskified processed $140 billion in reviewed volume last year, with ambitions to reach $1 trillion in Gross Merchandise Volume (GMV) in five years.
• The company guarantees merchants both cost savings and improved approval rates, with competitive win rates above 70%.
• Riskified is experiencing a rise in sophisticated fraud and is expanding its global presence, particularly in APAC and LatAm.

Financial Results

Riskified reported solid financial results, in line with expectations, reaffirming its guidance for future performance. The company has consistently reduced expenses while maintaining revenue growth, aiming for a 15% EBITDA margin by 2026.

• One third of the business is derived from tickets and travel.
• Another third comes from various forms of fashion.
• The final third includes electronics, groceries, food delivery, money transfers, and other categories.

Operational Updates

Riskified’s operational focus is on expanding its platform to include policy management and dispute resolution, contributing to its competitive win rates. The company has revamped its go-to-market strategy, significantly increasing its business pipeline.

• Integration with merchants typically takes 8-12 weeks.
• Sales cycles average one to two quarters after initial contact.
• The company is expanding its presence in APAC and LatAm regions.

Future Outlook

Riskified plans to leverage its AI platform to provide more services to enterprise e-commerce merchants, aiming to increase GMV and maintain strong take rates. The company sees significant growth opportunities in newer payment methods and aims to integrate with more merchants to expand its market share.

• Focus on enterprise clients with best-of-breed solutions.
• Targeting a multi-trillion dollar e-commerce market.
• Plans to expand into policy management and leverage AI for optimizing win rates.

Q&A Highlights

During the Q&A session, Riskified addressed its competitive landscape, noting that legacy vendors are losing market share. The company highlighted the potential of account-to-account transfers and emphasized its success in sharing enriched data with card issuers, improving approval rates significantly.

• Legacy solutions are losing ground to specialized platforms like Riskified.
• New payment methods offer growth opportunities.
• Data sharing with card issuers drives approval rate improvements.

In conclusion, Riskified remains focused on expanding its services and market presence, tackling the challenges of sophisticated fraud with innovative solutions. For more detailed insights, readers are encouraged to refer to the full transcript.

Full transcript - 53rd Annual JPMorgan Global Technology, Media and Communications Conference:

Reggie Smith, Fintech Analyst, JPMorgan: Good morning. Good morning. Reggie Smith here. I cover Fintech with JPMorgan and I am excited to interview and catch up with Idel Gao, CEO and founder of Riskified. I guess it’s been a year since we’ve spoken in person.

Good to see you again. How are you?

Idel Gao, CEO and Founder, Riskified: Good see you again, Roger as well.

Reggie Smith, Fintech Analyst, JPMorgan: Glad you guys made it in okay. I guess always a great place to start is hearing the riskify story, the problem you guys are solving, how you’re tackling it, who you compete with, how you make money. Maybe start there and we can kind of delve from there.

Idel Gao, CEO and Founder, Riskified: Sure. So, started by helping e commerce merchants manage on online fraud and that’s a big and an increasing problem. People stealing credit cards and using them to purchase stolen goods. And we understood that merchants were trying to manage this process internally using internal tools, you know, maybe paying some other vendor to create some logic and rules. In early twenty thirteen, my co founder and I said, Hey, we think we can leverage machine learning.

Back then, was not AI yet, it was machine learning. Machine learning, cyber security, and big data to create better models to catch the bad guys. So, we started targeting large sophisticated enterprise e commerce merchants and did that for them. It was very successful and then I would say in the past few years we’ve also expanded leveraging similar technologies to solve other problems across the stack, things like policy abuse, dispute management, and account security.

Reggie Smith, Fintech Analyst, JPMorgan: Yes, it’s funny you mentioned that and I think it was a few quarters ago we were talking and I didn’t realize just how large the policy stuff was. I’ve always thought about fraud and I think fraud is running at about 50,000,000,000 globally, if I’m not mistaken. But, the policy side of it where people are taking advantage of returns or other things is I think almost double that. Do I have the numbers right? And, maybe talk a little bit about that and how well merchants appreciate that policy is a big piece of it and what you guys are doing there.

Idel Gao, CEO and Founder, Riskified: Sure. Great question. So look, when we come to a merchant, we first try to understand what’s their cost structure for managing fraud. And, a typical merchant would say, look, I’m paying 25 basis points in chargebacks. Chargebacks are, you know, the bad transactions that they approve that they need to pay back.

On top of those 25 basis points, I pay three basis points for my internal staffing. I have an analyst and two data scientists. And on top of that, I pay two basis points to my current solution provider that helps me write rules and manage manual review. So my cost of managing fraud is 30 basis points. That’s the cost side of the equation.

And then on the other hand, you have the approval rate. It costs me 30 basis points and I approve 90% of transactions. 10% of transactions I proactively turn away because I fear they might be fraudulent. And the initial pitch for us, we provide something called a guaranteed model. We tell a merchant, look, we’re going to guarantee you both the cost and the approval rate so you can really let go of managing this process.

It’s not your core competency. You should not be doing it. So, for this merchant, we would come in and say, Hey, look, instead of 30 basis points, we would provide you, let’s say, 24 basis points, right, a nice 20% reduction in cost. And on the approval rate side, we would guarantee a 93% approval rate. I’ve got made up numbers.

So, you get guaranteed cost savings, and you get a guaranteed incremental lift in approval rates. And around the time of the IPO we did an analysis for our top clients and we found that on average we reduced cost by over 30% and approval rates I think by over seven or 8%. So, meaningful uplift. And that’s the value from the chargeback guarantee. Now, as we talked to our merchants over the years and understood what other problems they have, it was clear that policy abuse is a major issue because, and the fraudsters figured this out relatively early on, I don’t need to steal your credit card to purchase something, I can just order something online and I can call the retailer later on and say, I never received my package, I want a refund, or you sent me the wrong size, send me a new pair of whatever.

And, there’s massive abuse in refund and return requests. So, we figured out that leveraging similar technology and the same data network and the same machine learning platform, we could use that to identify fraudulent refund and return requests. What we’ve been seeing so far in most, virtually all cases, is that we’re able to block up to north of 10% of refund and return requests without incremental false positives. And when you think about that, that’s massive. That’s money that the retailer would have just handed back to the fraudster that they can now keep.

And again, one has their various ways of measuring the false positives, but it’s usually around callbacks and customer satisfaction rates which tend to shoot up even though they’re refunding less. So, that’s a very meaningful problem for them, that’s top of mind, that’s been gaining great traction for us.

Reggie Smith, Fintech Analyst, JPMorgan: It’s funny, you describe it and sounds like your services, if they work well, a lot of times the merchant avoids expenses. They may get additional revenues because things are approved, but those are very kind of hard to quantify or maybe even appreciate by the merchant. Like, how do you guys educate them so that they see that value that they’re getting from you? Because I have an insurance policy for my car. Never had an accident, but I pay it every six months.

And I hate to pay that, but I don’t fully appreciate it. Do your customers fully get what you guys are providing and how are you trying to bridge that gap for them?

Idel Gao, CEO and Founder, Riskified: I think it’s important for us to always say, look, we don’t view ourselves as an insurance company. And the reason is when you have that car insurance, someone’s saying, listen, I think the probability of Reggie’s car being stolen is x, and I’m going to take a premium to that. And that’s the insurance model. We’re kind of saying, listen, we just think we’re so good and accurate at looking at a transaction and understanding if it’s fraudulent or not that we would have a much lower probability of making a mistake. And the service to you, the merchant, is going to be much much greater if we can provide you that certainty and that guarantee.

And we can actually monetize it better, right? So, instead of giving you just a recommendation or a score and charging you a cent or 2¢, we can provide you that guaranteed performance across both approval rate and cost and end up making of net 10¢. I think you’re always exposed to the value that we provide you because you know your approval rate pre riskified, and you know your approval rate post riskified, and you also know your cost structure. You know how much you were paying back in chargebacks, and you see the value that we’re providing you right now.

Reggie Smith, Fintech Analyst, JPMorgan: You touched on something I wanted to get into was the different models that are out there. So you guys are doing full chargeback guarantee, you’re laying or overlaying some of the other policy stuff. Your competitors, know, some of those guys are doing risk scoring. Maybe talk about the difference there and whether or not they’re also offering ancillary services My sense is that they aren’t, but maybe you can catch us up on the competitive landscape.

Idel Gao, CEO and Founder, Riskified: Sure. So, think for us, was talking to a merchant a few months ago and I was starting to explain why we think chargeback guarantee is a good model. And he said, look, I don’t need you to explain anything. I had with my scoring vendor, he had a model drift over the weekend, I’m not sure what that is. And there was a bug somewhere or an integration issue and I just lost $5,000,000.

Okay, I don’t want that. I don’t want to have continuously to hire a team to manage this process, I want you to guarantee what the ROI is and I want you to manage that part of the business. So I think that’s the value in the chargeback guarantee, and I think inherently a company like ours that’s dedicated to solving this problem with hundreds of engineers, data scientists, and analysts continuously working and solving the ongoing and new fraud attacks and vectors that happen daily, we can drive better performance than a single individual merchant, even a large one. And I think most people understand that. So, that’s why I think it makes more sense for a single company like ours to solve that and that’s why we can provide the bigger ROI.

At the same time, there’s always going to be merchants or fraud teams within these merchants that want to continue to manage and build their kingdom in that part of the world. And in that sense, there will be people that manage it differently. From a platform perspective, that’s probably one of the most helpful thing in increasing our win rates and getting some velocity over the past few quarters. So, I think we shared that our competitive win rates have been above 70% and increasing over the past several quarters. A big chunk of that is because of the platform.

And I’m not just providing you the value on the chargeback guarantee piece, I can now also solve the problem around policy. And policy we talked about finding abusive refund and return requests, but it’s not just that. Policy also helps with launches if you have a limited edition sneaker that you’re launching, making sure that the inventory gets the real and good buyers and not a bunch of scalpers. Same thing with the ticketing event. It also helps you manage your coupons and discount codes so that someone’s not abusing a 10% off first time customer for the tenth time.

It helps with item limits and resellers. So, there’s a lot of different use cases that merchants use to build, to make sure that they run their business correctly. When you think about our dispute resolve product, which helps manage the representment process for fraud chargebacks and non fraud chargebacks, it’s become a core part of our merchants’ workflow. We recently we have this thing where at our management meeting, we’d like to bring in a risk if customer to share their experience, what’s great, what’s not great, what they would change, and just provide general feedback from the And we asked them what part of the stack is providing the most value? And he said, well look, from a business perspective the chargeback has the highest ROI, the chargeback guarantee.

Right? It’s like the highest approval rate, it reduces a significant portion of the cost. But for me and my team, dispute product is the one we love and we use it day to day. Mhmm. Right?

It like makes our lives easier. We have a team of 16 people using it. And I think that’s great. I love that. Even if like the the financial ROI to the organization is slightly smaller, our core customer now had were part of their workflow and not just a decisioning engine, so I think that’s really great.

But I went on a tangent. You asked me about the platform. So I think it’s been helping us on the competitive win rate side significantly. And part of that is because no one has that breadth or accuracy or capabilities, probably the policy product more so than the others.

Reggie Smith, Fintech Analyst, JPMorgan: Yeah. Okay, a couple of things there that I want to dig into. So, you guys and we were talking about this yesterday morning, you guys did $140,000,000,000 in, I guess, reviewed volume last year. And one of the things I didn’t appreciate, so obviously the global e commerce market is about 6,000,000,000,000 but that 140 is pretty remarkable. Couple of things that come to mind, think Shopify processed 180,000,000,000, so you’re not far below them.

Obviously, different business model. Now think about Affirm, another company that I cover, they did about $40,000,000,000 in sales volume. And so, like, it really puts your size and scope into perspective. As I think about the market, to the extent that you can, if there’s $6,000,000,000,000 in kind of e commerce volume globally annually, what proportion of that do you think is handled with in house solutions? How much of that is on like a risk scoring versus something more like the Chargeback Protect that you guys are offering?

How do you kind of see the market in the different pockets there?

Idel Gao, CEO and Founder, Riskified: I think that is an interesting call out, right? The fact that we so some platforms are saying, look, I’m going to be doing a lot of things and then my take rate is going to be kind of relatively higher, my GMV is going be lower, I’m going to probably be attracting more SMBs. We said, look, we’re gonna specialize at doing something small, but important and something that’s relevant for basically every single e commerce transaction. Right? And because of that specialization, we believe we’re the best of the world at looking at a transaction and understanding if it’s fraudulent or not.

And now we’re using the same engine to understand policy abuse and different components. So we went incredibly deep there. And that also informed our decision to really focus on an enterprise. Right? Because enterprises, they would say, look, I’m not just going to use whatever my e commerce platform.

At that point they’re not an e commerce platform, they have a multi acquirer setup and they use best of breed solutions and they’re going to test and they’re going to understand what works the best. And we think that’s really a great strategic fit for the type of product that we’ve built. And I think there is something special about building something that is so good and is so optimized at something kind of small but inherently important like the chargeback guarantee piece that we do. So, the one hand, I would say we’re proud of the $140,000,000,000 On the other hand, to your point, there’s still $6,000,000,000,000 in e com opportunity. Obviously, as you go from that 6,000,000,000,000 TAM to the SIM, there are some segments that you would need to remove, whether it’s PSD2, China in volume, but you’re still left with a large multi trillion dollar opportunity.

And if you think about that, the vast majority of that market is still on what we consider legacy solutions. These legacy solutions are managed by internal teams, so it’s a combination there. And we think that our market share gains are going to be most pronounced relative to that portion of the market. There are some other newer generation players, I would say, that are behind us on scale and profitability. So, we also see them slightly less.

We shared a bit about the competitive win rate. I think for us the challenge has been how do we get more at bats? How do we convert more of these merchants? So, let me just give you a concrete example. You can come to a merchant, they have 25 bips in chargeback and 90% approval rate.

Okay? And now we’re saying, well look, I can provide you 18 bips, that’s great cost savings, and I can increase your approval rate by 2%. Well, I might need to have I only have integration resources for two tools this year, and this is competing with a marketing solution, and I’m not sure if I can get it across the finish line from a business perspective. What we’ve seen is because we’re now selling a wider platform offering that’s providing more value, and it actually also has more direct value to the teams that contract with us, like those risk teams, like the dispute product that they love, it’s helped us generate more pipeline recently. And I think we just shared on the recent earnings that pipeline is basically as big as it’s ever been as it’s really increased Q1 because of some of these reasons.

Reggie Smith, Fintech Analyst, JPMorgan: Are you finding that your conversations that you’re having with different people at the company, how has that evolved? Has moved from risk folks to maybe marketing, maybe CFO, like where or does it vary? Like what can you tell me about that and that evolution over time as you’ve added more products and more value?

Idel Gao, CEO and Founder, Riskified: It varies. It’s interesting. We have a large user conference, Ascend, and we did kind of an online survey there. What part of the organization do you sit? And I think it was like 30% sit under product, 30% sit under the overall CFO office, maybe another fifth somehow under security.

So, it can be varied. And we can touch different parts of the organization. So, when we have a large strategic client that we work with, we would have an executive sponsor that tries to work with their C level leadership to understand what their priorities are. We would definitely interact with their risk and payments team. Our policy product is much more involved with their customer happiness support, however they want to define those teams.

Our account secure product is slightly more in the security domain because it’s somewhere around like bot prevention and mitigation which tends to sit with the security. So, you start to have more touch points within the organization and that’s definitely evolved.

Reggie Smith, Fintech Analyst, JPMorgan: This may be a tough question here, but if you could snap your fingers and talk to any department at a company to sell your products and your offering and get a yes and then get it implemented, like who would that be? If it were up to you, you could dictate who you spoke with.

Idel Gao, CEO and Founder, Riskified: I mean, look, the CFO is the one that understands the value proposition from a dollar and cents perspective. That’s the easiest thing. Right? Wait, this is my cost structure today, this is my cost structure tomorrow, and that’s the value on the approval rate. It’s a no brainer.

You need to make sure that you tie in other parts of the organization to support that move, right? Because the CFO is predominantly not going to force massive chain within an organization if the team is against that in most situations. So, I think it needs to be multi threaded. Right? You need to have widespread support internally to make this type of enterprise change.

Reggie Smith, Fintech Analyst, JPMorgan: And what is it so thinking about that process from Hello to contract signed to implementation, like what is that timeline? I know you talked about the pipeline being super strong today, I think the strongest it’s ever been, but like walk us through like that timeline and how long it takes to find, sign, implement and get revenues flowing for a customer.

Idel Gao, CEO and Founder, Riskified: The integration itself can take anywhere from eight to twelve weeks. Obviously, slightly longer, slightly shorter depending on how many people are working on it and how involved it is, but that’s the general timeframe. The sales process itself could be one to two quarters once there’s a real sales process, not just, hey, let’s say hello and talk again in a month or so, but once there’s a real opportunity here, once we identify the segment, once there’s data sharing. So, end to end for kind of the large clients, three quarters is a realistic time frame. As you start thinking about slightly smaller enterprises in the range of $50,000,000 to $1,000,000,000 that can be even faster.

Reggie Smith, Fintech Analyst, JPMorgan: Got it. And, I know you guys a few years ago kind of revamped your go to market strategy. On the last call, you talked about having the biggest pipeline ever. I’m sure there’s a link there, but maybe could you talk about how that change has manifested and how you change how you go to market and that process of building the pipeline? What connections can I draw between that change and the improvements you’ve seen there, if any?

Idel Gao, CEO and Founder, Riskified: So, if I were to unpack the pipeline, I would say number one is probably the product platform and the conversations it enables us. Number two, we’ve actually seen in a lot of merchants that we speak to that there’s been a large increase in sophisticated fraud over the past few months. So, they’ve been saying, Listen, I’m not sure what’s going on. My fraud losses have increased. Can you help?

So, that’s number two. And that’s just more industry or market related. And number three, a few years ago we started to really build out a global go to market presence in APAC, in LatAm, in specific countries there. And we’ve seen that, obviously these are all enterprise sales. By the time from having the first boots on the ground there to having a few kind of referenceable clients and the local market feeling that you’re there to stay and be a significant player there, I think we’re reaching that point in a few regions and that’s helping develop pipeline there.

So, wouldn’t say it’s a shift from the strategy we started a few years ago, but it’s probably just more of a manifestation of the success we’ve had there.

Reggie Smith, Fintech Analyst, JPMorgan: Okay. You reported results yesterday morning, solid results, they were in line with our expectations, you reiterated guidance. I think one of the concerns that we had gotten from investors going into the quarter was that you guys have exposure to travel, discretionary spending, etcetera. With all of the uncertainty around tariffs, it doesn’t appear to have impacted your business or your outlook. Maybe talk a little bit about the diversity and the strength that you’re seeing in your business that gives you confidence in the back half of the year and your outlook?

Idel Gao, CEO and Founder, Riskified: Yeah. So, business, a third of our business is tickets and travel, about. About another third is various forms of fashion, luxury fashion, fast fashion, sneakers, there’s different sub industries there. And another third is kind of whether electronics, groceries, food delivery, money transfers and roommates, lot of other smaller categories for us. And obviously there was some concern around travel with some of the airlines pulling guidance, traveling to The United States being weaker.

And we did not see that, whether it’s because some of our merchants are more exposed to European or different forms of accommodations, it’s not a full analysis that we had ready or understood. But we’re not seeing that softness on the travel side. Also some of the strength of the new business was helping offset that. On the fashion side, we anticipated, especially in the luxury and sneaker kind of categories, to see softness, not as pronounced as the softness that we had last year. And I think we saw that, maybe even slightly more than we thought.

But overall, we saw resilient consumer and kind of April trends holding up well. And I think what gave us some confidence in retaining guidance even given the potential kind of uncertainty in the back half of the year is that kind of size of pipeline the pace of new business and how that’s been trending.

Reggie Smith, Fintech Analyst, JPMorgan: No, makes a lot of sense. I it’s a good time to talk about I’ve known you guys since the IPO where you guys were super, super fast growing, not very profitable. You guys have scaled into that. Maybe talk about your longer range or medium range targets and what gives you confidence in getting that EBITDA margin up to that mid term range?

Idel Gao, CEO and Founder, Riskified: Well, look, if you think about the trajectory of Riskified over the past three years, I think we’ve basically reduced expenses every single year while maintaining kind of revenue growth and I think to some years margin expansion. So, basically from that 50 something percent gross margin that we have, we’ve been able to flow everything through to the bottom line. And I think it just shows the inherent kind of scalability of the business and how we’re able to automate and scale it. As we look forward, I think we want to make sure that we’re both reinvesting correctly to capture some of the growth opportunities ahead of us, but also making sure that we reach I think we shared kind of a 15 plus percent North Star target over the next few quarters in ’26. So that continues to be a focus.

Does it end at is the target 20%, twenty five %, thirty %? I mean, depends on the time horizon, right? There’s no reason that you can’t create incremental margin every single year that goes by. But thinking about it more broadly, we talked about e commerce being 6,000,000,000,000, you know, still growing low double digit rates, so it’s a massive opportunity and we’re still only at a hundred and 40,000,000,000. And, I think that every time we add more product functionalities and expand the SAM and expand the value that we’re creating to our merchants, it helps from a retention perspective, it helps from a a revenue perspective within our client base, And I think we can be a meaningful part of wider e commerce in the years ahead.

So that’s part of the strategy, integrate with more merchants, get more GMV, provide them more services and kind of have that reflected in our take rate and net take rate.

Reggie Smith, Fintech Analyst, JPMorgan: Yeah. You guys have been a buyer of the stock. Obviously, you have a nice cash balance. How do you think about other uses of cash, maybe M and A, does it make sense in this space to acquire someone else and if so, would you think about horizontal, vertical integration like scale, like how do you think about M and A if at all?

Idel Gao, CEO and Founder, Riskified: We’re not opposed to M and A. We think M and A can play an important part, we don’t have any philosophy against it, we have not done any to date. Reason being we have just not found the right opportunity at the right price, and I think we’re very disciplined in how we approach that, and whenever we would compare like an M and A opportunity relative to buying back riskified stock at current valuations, we’ve said well, think this is a better use of proceeds. When we think about M and A, we think, hey, we have a strategic relationship with over 50 publicly traded e commerce companies. We have a very deep integration with them.

They trust us. They think that our services are great. And we can obviously cross sell them more. We’ve cross sold them policy and dispute management and account secure, and we’re sure there are other services that we can provide them. And then we just go through kind of a build by partner analysis, And we have not found the right fit for that part of the business so far.

And another potential play is we believe we’re the most scaled risk provider. But there are other kind of smaller providers, subscale, that are having potentially would have a harder time and we think there’s a lot of synergy opportunities in that scenario as well. So that’s something we’re looking at.

Reggie Smith, Fintech Analyst, JPMorgan: Yeah. On that last note, would you say that for the smaller guys, given where the capital markets are and the IPO window, is there a greater urgency? I know you guys IPO ed several years ago and have had you had cash in the balance sheet, but I would imagine some of the smaller guys maybe don’t have that type of liquidity. Do you feel a greater sense of urgency potentially for some of the smaller guys over the next twelve months or so where?

Idel Gao, CEO and Founder, Riskified: I don’t know the exact timeframe for it, but there is. If you think about the past of eight to twelve quarters, the upcoming quarters whether it’s for eight to twelve are markedly different from the past and the realization around their growth rates, the exit opportunities and that would obviously potentially create opportunities for us.

Reggie Smith, Fintech Analyst, JPMorgan: Got it. We’ve got a few minutes left. Some folks in the audience, if there are any questions, just raise your head. Can get the microphone over to you.

Unidentified speaker: For folks who are a little bit newer to like where you sit in the ecosystem in the sector, could you share a little bit about your perspective on the competitive dynamics with folks who maybe aren’t like pure player risk providers? Thank you.

Idel Gao, CEO and Founder, Riskified: Sure. So, we think about the landscape, we can either think about some of these dedicated fraud solutions that are legacy providers. We can think about part of the payment platforms, whether it’s Stripe, Adyen, Worldpay that have risk solutions. You can think about modern risk solutions like us and a handful of others. And you can think about smaller startups.

Legacy vendors predominantly losing market share, not winning new RFPs. Some of them get some renewals, but still the majority of the market. Payments tax, Adyen, Stripe, others, we do not see them in our area of the market and we think they have inherent limitations. So, if I’m a large merchant, I would run Stripe, Adyen, Braintree, Delocal or our transactions between them. Don’t, as a large merchant, I don’t really orchestration platform.

I want to keep my own credit cards and vaults and everything internally. And even just based on performance, right, like the level of data that we have and that we integrate with is, we did a recent analysis three times as much data points than what a payment gateway type risk solution receives. So, when we talk about going very deep and being best in the world at something, that’s where it really stands out. So, that’s relative to the payment solutions. And on the newer startups, I haven’t seen a lot in this space.

Think kind of when we started the company 2013, ’20 ’14, there was a handful of companies that started and some of those are kind of the other smaller players in the field right now. But I would say we were probably like that first generation of newer AI solutions in this space.

Unidentified speaker: Hey, Edo. I want to ask just the alternative payment method side, we’ve been hearing a lot of new pay by bank and local buttons or brand tender types come aboard. And then, there’s also this theme towards payment orchestration as well. At Stripe sessions, they talked about being able to use AI and surface up relevant payment types for consumers as they come in. I’m just curious, does that complicate the process for Riskify?

Does it actually make it even more imperative for retailers to consider? I’m just curious how all of that impacts your thinking of the outlook.

Idel Gao, CEO and Founder, Riskified: I think newer payment methods are really interesting for us. So, we talked a bit about our growth in money transfer and remittance and a lot of that are account to account transfers and it doesn’t have to be traditional credit card. But there’s always a risk inherent that someone who’s not the real identity or some back end funding instrument is not going to be there when you wire something through an ACH and then four days later, oh, was insufficient funds in that account. So, we see that as a great growth opportunity and really interested in leaning into that. As we think about orchestration, I think that’s slightly to the side from how we view things.

We integrate directly with the merchant. They tend to have their own internal logic about how they route transactions or it could be via an orchestration platform. But the value added services component, right, around the orchestration is probably different. And again, when we talk about enterprise clients, predominantly a billion plus, but also that 50,000,000 to a billion piece, they tend to like to unpack the bundles and choose best of breed solutions in the various components. Now, as we think about distribution for the medium tail and the SMB tail, I think going through, whether it’s the platforms, the payment facilitators, the orchestrators, that’s a great strategy.

It’s not something candidly that we’ve focused on, but we would want to get involved there by the end of the year or early next year.

Reggie Smith, Fintech Analyst, JPMorgan: Got two minutes left. Think a point of clarification that would be really good and kind of builds off Attention’s question. Where do you sit in the flow for some of the buttons? So, like whether it’s PayPal button or Apple Pay, would that volume would you evaluate that before it gets there or do you not look at that stuff? Like how does that how does your business fit with that stuff?

Idel Gao, CEO and Founder, Riskified: The majority of merchants would send us their definitely the PayPal transactions, but also the Apple Pay. Apple Pay might be non guaranteed in some markets, like we would provide a non guaranteed decision in some areas. PayPal predominantly comes with the guarantee. From a flow perspective, what we would recommend is us sitting pre authorization. The reason being we can kind of remove what we consider blame or bad fraud and keep the identifier clean and have a better standing with the bank.

We also do a lot of data sharing with some of the participating issuing banks, so we do it with Capital One, with Bank of America, with Discover, and we have more partnerships lined up. And there we share enriched data with the card issuer, pre auth, And that helps the card issuer provide a higher auth rate for our merchants. And that’s been really successful driving 100, two hundred basis points in incremental post auth approval rates. And then we would probably do a full post op risk screening once we also get the AVS results. So, that’s like the full technical answer about how we sit in the flow.

Reggie Smith, Fintech Analyst, JPMorgan: I guess we’ve one minute left. Love to hear your five year vision for Riskify. Like five years from now we’re sitting here, what does the company look like? What are we talking about product wise? Like where are things going?

Idel Gao, CEO and Founder, Riskified: A trillion in GMV. No, I’m we’ll see. My CFOs here looking at me don’t give any five year forward looking statements on Nothing like that.

Reggie Smith, Fintech Analyst, JPMorgan: It’s just kind of what’s your vision of the industry five years from now?

Idel Gao, CEO and Founder, Riskified: I think that we can continue to leverage I think we have the most an incredibly powerful AI platform that can spin up unique models that answer a lot of different questions outside of is this transaction fraudulent or not. I think we’ve expanded that into the policy piece. By the way, the dispute management piece also has an AI, interesting AI component that knows how to optimize the win rates. So I think there are more services that we can provide these enterprise e commerce merchants by leveraging the same data network that’s very robust, the same ML platform that’s very robust. And think by doing that we can expand the GMV that flows through our system and maintain good take rates there on a high scale.

Perfect, sounds good. All right. Good to see you. Good to see you.

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