Biodesix at TD Cowen Conference: Transformative Year Ahead

On Wednesday, 05 March 2025, Biodesix (NASDAQ: BDSX) participated in the TD Cowen 45th Annual Healthcare Conference. The company outlined its strategic plans for 2025, a year it anticipates will be transformative. Key highlights included expansion in lung cancer diagnostics and sales force growth, alongside challenges such as sales turnover. Biodesix remains optimistic about achieving financial targets and enhancing its market position.

Key Takeaways

• Biodesix plans to expand its sales team to 95 professionals by the end of 2025.
• The company is targeting adjusted EBITDA breakeven in the latter half of the year.
• Anticipates cash flow positivity by 2026, driven by increased sales productivity.
• Potential inclusion in CHEST guidelines could significantly boost market adoption.
• Biodesix maintains a strong IP portfolio with no expected competition for over two years.

Financial Results

• Gross Margins: Industry-leading margins in the high 70% range, with potential for improvement as the company scales.
• Revenue Contribution: Clinical and commercial testing comprises about 90% of revenue, while biopharmaceutical partnerships contribute 7% to 10%.
• Sales Rep Productivity: New sales reps are expected to cover their costs within three months and achieve $1 million in sales within six to nine months.
• Financial Targets: Aiming for adjusted EBITDA breakeven in the second half of 2025, with cash flow positivity projected for 2026.
• Revenue Target: Approaching $100 million, aligning with adjusted EBITDA breakeven goals.

Operational Updates

• Sales Force Expansion: Starting 2025 with 71 sales professionals, Biodesix plans to hire six more per quarter, aiming for 95 by year-end.
• Territory Management: Currently managing 48 territories, with plans to increase to 50 by the end of the year.
• Data Development: Engaged in the ALTITUDE trial and CLARIFY study to support physician awareness and payer support.
• Market Penetration: Less than 1% penetration in the target market, focusing on expanding US coverage and targeting pulmonologists.

Future Outlook

• Sales Force Expansion: Continued growth expected with six new hires per quarter, maintaining strong sales productivity.
• Data Development and Publication: Plans to publish results from the ALTITUDE trial and interim analyses from the CLARIFY study.
• Guideline Inclusion: Anticipates potential inclusion in CHEST guidelines, which could drive commercial adoption.
• Market Expansion: Aims to leverage HEDIS measures to increase market penetration and support healthcare practices.

Q&A Highlights

• Sales Turnover: Addressed poor performance in Q3, implementing learnings from a pilot program to stabilize the sales team.
• HEDIS Impact: Expected to drive screening adoption and increase testing opportunities.
• CHEST Guidelines: Inclusion of blood-based testing could enhance market adoption, especially among commercial payers.
• ALTITUDE Trial: Expected to confirm clinical utility, potentially influencing CHEST guidelines and commercial uptake.
• Competitive Landscape: No known competition for the next two years, with a strong IP portfolio protecting Notify tests.

Biodesix remains focused on achieving its strategic goals for 2025. For a detailed view, refer to the full conference call transcript below.

Full transcript - TD Cowen 45th Annual Healthcare Conference:

Dan Brennan, Life Science Tools and Diagnostics Analyst, TD Cowan: Terrific. Good afternoon, Dan Brennan. I’m with the Life Science Tools and Diagnostics Analyst here at TD Cowan. We’re wrapping up our at least our final session of the forty fifth annual TD Cowan Global Healthcare Conference here with Scott Hutton, CEO of BioDeskics. So Scott, welcome and thank you for being here.

Scott Hutton, CEO, BioDeskics: Yeah. Thank you, Dan. Maybe, you know,

Dan Brennan, Life Science Tools and Diagnostics Analyst, TD Cowan: with the quarter just announced and, we’re running around here at the conference, but obviously, you know, we looked at the results and kinda how you guys presented the guide you had preannounced. Maybe just walk through kind of the full quarter, just kinda hit the quick highlights there, and then how are you thinking about the year ahead?

Scott Hutton, CEO, BioDeskics: Yeah. Well, I’ll start with the latter first. We think 2025 is gonna be a transformative year for biodesics. We have continued to put up exceptionally strong growth quarter over quarter, gross margins at the high 70% range, industry leading in diagnostics. And so for us, this is an execution plan.

Let’s continue to build up the sales force. Let’s continue to support those lung cancer patients that are in need of one of our five on market Medicare covered test.

Dan Brennan, Life Science Tools and Diagnostics Analyst, TD Cowan: So the, you know, the top line guide you said, I think bracketed where consensus is maybe walk through. Again, you had the call yesterday, but for the benefit of the people listening here, and it’ll give some fodder here. Just walk through some of the key, underpinnings to how you thought about 2025 outlook.

Scott Hutton, CEO, BioDeskics: Yeah. You know, one of the things we know is that we’re still under penetrated, but lung cancer is the deadliest of all cancers. So we still have a massive opportunity to continue to expand and grow. One of the key ways we do that is growth and expansion within our commercial team. So we plan on hiring an additional six sales professionals per quarter.

We started the year at 71 sales professionals, and so we hope to end the year right around 95 sales professionals. What we’ve demonstrated historically is within about three months, they can cover their own costs, pay for themselves. Somewhere in that month six to nine, they get up to approximately $1,000,000 per rep in sales rep productivity. We’ve continued to see that over time, and we we allowed that performance and historical track record to help guide us there. So we still think it’s a numbers game.

We know there are pulmonologists out there that we still have not met with. So we’ve got to continue to expand and ensure that we got coverage across The US.

Dan Brennan, Life Science Tools and Diagnostics Analyst, TD Cowan: Maybe just walk through, you know, you had some sales turnover, which I think was forced in the back half of the year. I I guess, walk through the decision process around which you kind of made those changes and how investors can feel comfortable that the current team in place is not going to have some, you know, any any similar issues.

Scott Hutton, CEO, BioDeskics: Yeah. You know, so in the third quarter, we highlighted that Dan’s referencing is, we addressed some poor performers, and and exited them from the organization. That’s never something you take lightly. We did it in the third quarter because, the belief was if we didn’t do it then, they know that they were underperforming and they probably were gonna start looking for a job and opt out. So we did it proactively.

We also disclosed during the earnings call that we were conducting a pilot at the same time. Part of that pilot, those learnings that were going on caused us to call time out and slowed that hiring. We didn’t disclose that at that point in time, but now that we’ve come back out, we’ve hired, we’re at full force heading into 2025, and we’ve communicated that we’re gonna start to expand a little bit into primary care knowing that forty nine percent of incidentally found lung nodules are managed in primary care. We feel like we were poised to maintain that strong sales rep productivity and continue to meet those strong growth expectations.

Dan Brennan, Life Science Tools and Diagnostics Analyst, TD Cowan: So obviously adding salespeople, the key initiative obviously to getting the product use case up and getting visibility. What are the other ways that you try to promote visibility like our work? You know, when we reinitiated coverage here at Cowen or TD Cowen, excuse me, we found resounding, like, positive feedback from the doctors about the utility of the test. But the penetration is still, you know, nascent, right? So you mean less than 1% penetrate in your addressable market.

So with a really good test that doctors like and it really is a little penetration, that’s a great issue to have. But beyond just adding feet on the street, what are the ways you’re trying to drive,

Scott Hutton, CEO, BioDeskics: awareness? Yeah. Data development’s always key. Right? Putting out new data.

Not only does it help with payers in the long run, but it does help get you back in front of physicians. It isn’t always just clinical utility. It might be a secondary or tertiary question that they’re asking. So for us, we’ve referenced altitude, which in the pulmonology community is a first of its kind randomized controlled trial. We have managed that through a data safety management board, so we’re blinded to the data.

That data safety management board is picking up, kind of their cadence or frequency of meetings, and so we fully anticipate and expect that we’ll learn more from them in the coming months. But there’s a higher likelihood this year that we’re getting close to met the primary endpoint to where we could publish that prospective randomized data. That’s big because it’s never never been conducted, in the in the pulmonology community. Secondarily, we announced a study that we call CLARIFY. This is a retrospective chart review of commercial cases.

We view it as a complimentary study to altitude, so that we don’t have to go back and wait for a new cust or a new patient one year to see what that outcome was. Let’s go back and look at those patients and see how they did. As part of that, you know, we’re gonna pull a bunch of data. We’re gonna look at how does our test compare to PET. We’re also looking at time to diagnosis and potential for stage shift.

We think these are meaningful data points that could also be catalyst for future growth.

Dan Brennan, Life Science Tools and Diagnostics Analyst, TD Cowan: So maybe when you, and we’ll say high level and then we’ll dig into Salesforce and kind of the data set. But thinking about, walk us through the guidance for reaching EBITDA positivity, kind of what is that predicated upon? Is this all within your control? Just kind of give us a sense of kind of what needs to happen in order to reach that target.

Scott Hutton, CEO, BioDeskics: Yeah. It’s a great question. I’ve talked a little bit about that sales rep productivity adding those heads. That’s really it. We did a bottoms up analysis based on what was in our control.

We feel with a high level of confidence that that guide is within our control. Some of the other catalysts that may occur, things like guideline inclusion, he does measure rollout, those things are not factored into that. So we view that as upside and potential tailwinds when they occur. We look at it and say our clinical or commercial testing really accounts for about 90% of our revenue. That biopharmaceutical partnership and services side of the business, it will continue to contribute anywhere from 7% to 10% of revenue this year.

So again, when we looked at it, it was let’s build a model that’s bottoms up, it’s based upon feet on the street, their sales rep productivity, and we feel with a high level of confidence that that’s in reach. And it gets us right on that brink of a hundred million dollars. And as you said, most importantly in the second half of this year, getting to adjusted EBITDA breakeven. And then shortly thereafter, getting to cash flow positivity, which we haven’t disclosed exactly when that’ll be. It will be in in 2026, but we’ll look forward to providing greater insights as we progress through the year.

Maybe just on the Salesforce productivity, like when we relaunched, we did

Dan Brennan, Life Science Tools and Diagnostics Analyst, TD Cowan: a lot of work on that looking at the math and it could suggest that there’s, you know, real nice upside potential to where the consensus numbers sit if that productivity if those productivity levels hold. What’s the range of productivity? Is it very wide per rep? And kind of as you add more reps, I mean, you’re basically almost doubling, you know, you’re taking up your reps by, you know, 50%. What’s the confidence level that you can maintain that level of productivity as you expand?

Scott Hutton, CEO, BioDeskics: Yeah. You know, one of the things we’ve done historically is we’ve we’ve cut territories a little bit earlier because we wanted to prove that out. First and foremost for us, we wanted to prove that we could go deeper when there was was more focus and attention. But secondarily, we wanted our sales professionals to appreciate that we weren’t taking something away from them. We were going to make them more effective also.

So on the high end, we have had sales professionals get upwards of close to $2,000,000 in annualized revenue, and then we cut their territory. So that gives us great confidence to know that there still is an abundance of opportunities that remain untapped. And then at the lower end of that performance range, it’s really a function of how long have they been in territory. But all of our territories, which we’ve now stated that we have 48 territories currently, we’ll add two territories by the end of the year to have 50 sales territories. We use claims data.

We look at referral patterns. We try to make certain that each and every sales professional has plenty of room, to grow and and

Dan Brennan, Life Science Tools and Diagnostics Analyst, TD Cowan: a high earning potential. So, HEDIS, you mentioned, we did some checks on that and other diagnostic companies talk about that extremely positively as a critical factor. Just again, remind us on the time timetable and the potential impact, if, you know, kind of when this goes into effect.

Scott Hutton, CEO, BioDeskics: Yeah. You know, so if you’re not that familiar with the HEDIS measures, really, the simplest way to look at this is we’re trying to drive, screen adoption. Unfortunately, in lung cancer, it depends upon which report you see, but the screen eligible population that participates is estimated to be between seven percent and ten percent of the population. So we’re grossly under penetrated into that opportunity. HEDIS is gonna implement qualitative measures and metrics by which physicians are not only tracked and graded, but also incented and compensated.

And so what we hope is there’s a result and impact that influences screen eligible patients to participate and then screen, the positive screen patients then come in increasing testing opportunities for us. So HEDIS hasn’t made any changes in terms of communication as it relates to lung cancer yet this year. They stated they would begin rolling those measures out at the end of twenty twenty five. What we know from collaborating with a number of physicians is they’re already planning and preparing for it. And so they’re organizing, working on screening methodology, adopting new screening programs, and then subsequently creating nodule management clinics.

And so we feel confidently that this puts us in a position to capitalize when that occurs. We think that that’s a catalyst for growth in 2026, to be honest, as you start to roll this out. I think ’26 and ’27 are the big years for growth. But again, right now the the screening methodology for lung cancer still remains a low dose CT. We’re eager and cheering on a number of diagnostic companies that are focused on blood based lung cancer screening because the more modalities out there, we think the higher the compliance in that patient population.

Dan Brennan, Life Science Tools and Diagnostics Analyst, TD Cowan: So back to HEDIS then, is it is it a function that doctors are kind of, looking to use your tests, but they’re not looking that hard just because they don’t get compensated enough for it or the insurance companies aren’t. Just kind of walk back through again and kind of what the motivation is and kind of how much of a lift that could be if this, you know, if and, you know, when these go into effect?

Scott Hutton, CEO, BioDeskics: Yeah. You know, it really has less to do with motivating them to use our test. It’s really about the patient population, the addressable size of that market. So if you’ve got seven percent to ten percent of the screen eligible patients participating, then then you look at it and say we’re not hitting ninety to ninety three percent of the eligible population. So right now if you take that and you remove ninety to ninety three percent, then what are we dealing with?

We’re dealing with incidentally found nodules, and they’re massive, right? It’s estimated that upwards of five million patients present annually with an incidentally found nodule. That’s a huge opportunity, but we’re missing on the screen detected population. So we look at it and say this is just going to grow the addressable market significantly. And as it does, it really comes back to those healthcare practices and are they set up to manage and triage the additional patients that come their way.

What we know from implementation of Notify Lung Testing that we offer is that physicians that utilize that have the ability to pull a patient forward to an intervention with a positive CDT, increasing the likelihood of an earlier identification or diagnosis. So there’s a positive impact, but we’ve got to support screen eligible patients participating because we know that they’re at a higher likelihood of lung cancer.

Dan Brennan, Life Science Tools and Diagnostics Analyst, TD Cowan: So I think on the call yesterday, you talked about, you know, chest and and you know possible Just kind of give us an update on your thoughts there.

Scott Hutton, CEO, BioDeskics: Yeah. You know, sadly and and, you know, from a patient perspective, I think it’s very disappointing. CHEST, which is the largest pulmonology society physician group, has not updated their guidelines in nearly twelve years. So sadly when you think of that, they haven’t included things like blood based molecular testing or biomarkers. They have not included or updated robotic assisted bronchoscopy, things that are considered standard of care today.

In prior years, when Dan asked that question, we really had no idea when the society was planning on updating. We just knew that they were behind. And so what I shared was they went on record at the end of last year acknowledging and admitting they were behind, but also disclosing that they were updating the guidelines and planned to publish those updates this year in 2025. So that’s that’s a big shift, right, from when we were talking a year ago. We don’t have a timeline on on when to expect those updates, but we think it’s it’s material.

What we’ve achieved and done to this point is without guideline inclusion. We think that would be a wonderful tailwind for us, but also for patients. Since we are the first mover in the market, any inclusion that reference biomarkers and references their ability to help risk stratify this patient population should put us in a wonderful position. So other than that, we don’t have a lot of intel other than really looking at, you know, the studies we have, the data we continue to publish. We feel like we’ve put enough data out there to be incorporated in those guidelines and we’re excited to see those updates.

Dan Brennan, Life Science Tools and Diagnostics Analyst, TD Cowan: So how does the guideline or how would that impact insurance? I mean, you’re already covered very well on the Medicare side. Just speak to if in fact you were to get in the guidelines, which would be terrific news. Is it a function of that you’d have more commercial payers jump on board and say we’re going to cover you and that drives growth or just doctors see guidelines regardless of coverage and they say we’re going to

Scott Hutton, CEO, BioDeskics: do this? I think it’s a blend. It’s a little bit of of all of the above. We know that there are some physician groups that might be laggards or late stage adopters and they may just use that as a reason to say no, kind of an easy objection. In those cases, we’ve tracked who they were and so that we know at least when we get guideline inclusion based upon their feedback, let’s go back in and present the data package.

That also happens in some large integrated networks where they really look at it and say, hey, for us to have a tops down push through our organization, we want to ensure that it’s in guidelines. So it gives us that license to hunt, the ability to go back in and have a conversation, share data. And as you educate them, you’re also empowering them to do what’s right. On the payer front, it never hurts. We know that the payers are always looking for any reason to not pay, right.

And so for us, for this this eligible population, we look at it and say in lung cancer, the majority of patients are gonna be Medicare covered, right? Sixty to sixty five percent of our patient population to date. Private payers, we brought on 18 new private payers covering Notify XL2 last year. We’re going to continue to increase that, but it definitely helps, right? It’s a starting point.

Oftentimes when you meet with a payer, that’s one of the first questions. They want to see the data package. They want to understand what the physician society group has done to include those tests. So again, I keep using the phrase tailwind. I do think there’s an inflection point.

It’s difficult to forecast and really measure that, but it is also kind of validation to what we’ve been stating is that there’s great utility here. We have a number of the the leading thought leaders and institutions that have implemented our testing or utilizing it. We think that speaks volumes.

Dan Brennan, Life Science Tools and Diagnostics Analyst, TD Cowan: I mean, guidelines, let’s say September 1, they say we’re going to include in guidelines. Could your volumes go up over the, you know, ensuing two years? Could you be 5060%? How would we think about how quickly that

Scott Hutton, CEO, BioDeskics: could be? You know, so we’ve gone back and looked at other other diagnostic tests and and you don’t really see a massive in, you know, inflection point like that. Mhmm. I think for us, it would be an accelerator. It’s difficult to quantify.

It really is about getting in front of pulmonologists, enabling them to use the the best testing possible to triage the population. I think it would open doors that may currently be closed to us. Got it.

Dan Brennan, Life Science Tools and Diagnostics Analyst, TD Cowan: Yes. So maybe speak on obviously, Altitude, I’m sure on any of these calls or investor meetings, you’re going to dig through it. Yes. But it’d be interesting just to get a sense on when we see the data, like what are the two or three outcomes we could see and kind of how would you frame the impact on you know, the test and the outlook?

Scott Hutton, CEO, BioDeskics: Yeah. For altitude, it’s really about clinical utility. Mhmm. We we published a study called Oracle, and then prior to that was the Panoptic. And so what we’ve demonstrated there is clinical utility.

Now you’re confirming that in a randomized controlled trial. That’s really the difference. People look back and say, hey, if you haven’t done the randomized, you know, prospective trial, then what have you really said? Have you cherry picked? And so, we feel pretty confident at this point in time that it it will stay the same.

And then the secondary, not so the endpoints, but things you’re looking at here is if you change behavior, then what’s the positive impact to the health care system? So minimizing unnecessary, invasive, costly procedures. We demonstrated that in Oracle and PanOptik. We feel confident that this is going to do the same.

Dan Brennan, Life Science Tools and Diagnostics Analyst, TD Cowan: So do you feel therefore that Altitude could be what sways, who knows, maybe chess gets swayed over the goal line with that. But absent that will altitude be a it’ll be a helpful marketing message, excuse me, but will it be like a real big impact with doctors, given that you’ve already established utility in prior studies?

Scott Hutton, CEO, BioDeskics: Yeah. You know, one of the ways we look at is because we’ve got a first mover advantage. It’s putting a moat around the business. I think it sets the bar high for any potential competitor that looks at it and says, so for us to compete, we’ve got to do a randomized controlled trial and exceed those expectations. So early stage companies that might be difficult to think of what that looks like.

For us, I feel pretty confident that it will it’ll do both. It’ll open new doors, for us. It’ll start the conversation. If CHEST guidelines are updated prior to our publishing, obviously, it’s not gonna hurt. It would just be additive.

If they haven’t published the guidelines, then it should only help. The reason I state that when I stated that it was a first of its kind for pulmonology, when you go back to I believe it was 2018, ATS, the American Thoracic Society, published how to properly design a prospective study for pulmonology. We worked with those physicians to design this study and followed that. So we look at it and say if they published what the guidance or what the expectations for study design should be and we’ve met those criteria and it’s a positive outcome, then we’ve done everything we could. But again, I also anticipate that we’ll have multiple interim analysis out of Clarify that we published this year, that will be even more compelling.

One of the things we know when we talk to pulmonologist, they tell us that PET scans are ordered on every patient and they don’t even look at the results. They said every one of those patients turn up positive using their phrase, they’re glowing. We don’t even do it, but it’s just part of the workflow. So talk about an unnecessary procedure. So many of those physicians said if you can get some sort of comparator showing that your test, you know has more impactful results guiding treatment than pet, then now you’re even closer to guidelines.

So we’re really focused on continuing to develop data, distancing ourselves from the competition and being that consultative sales force that is trusted within the pulmonology community.

Dan Brennan, Life Science Tools and Diagnostics Analyst, TD Cowan: When you think about the Altitude data, what would be the kind of process by which it could impact you? First, we’d see a headline result and it would say it worked or didn’t work and then you have to wait for publication. Is it the publication that would help drive more enthusiasm or would the or the data, you know, basically saying it worked be enough? You know, well, I also oftentimes go

Scott Hutton, CEO, BioDeskics: back and just look at who the enrolling sites are. So one of the things that we know is if you’re an enrolling site, which we’ve clearly disclosed that there’s 26 major academic institutions, that also means they’re not commercially enrolling. And so when you close a site, if they’ve been a participant in this in the trial and it’s a positive trial, you’ve increased the likelihood that they immediately convert and utilize commercially. So one way of thinking of that would be if you can take a high percentage of those 26 sites, move it to a commercial order to where every patient they treat utilizes the test, now you can see that that’s a nice tailwind to help influence growth and trajectory. You know, secondarily, I think then it’s the implementation in the rollout over a period of time.

Dan Brennan, Life Science Tools and Diagnostics Analyst, TD Cowan: So what’s the perspective, salespeople get when they go in and meet with a doctor and the doctor says, no, I’m not ready. I don’t want to do this? We’ve talked a

Scott Hutton, CEO, BioDeskics: little bit about it. There’s a couple of of easy objections. Are you in guidelines? No. But no test is.

Right? We haven’t haven’t seen an update in guidelines in twelve years like I’ve I’ve said prior. So that’s an easy one. Secondarily, and I think everybody here can kind of smile, it’s I don’t need your test, I don’t get it wrong, right? And so we have to go in and improve and educate and inform.

We have to remind people that pulmonologists don’t have blood draw capabilities on-site. They don’t have a history of ordering a blood based biomarker or molecular test. And so we really have to go and kind of educate, inform, and empower them to do that. Now with our track record, one of the other things we implement is we have a clinical review tool where it’s HIPAA compliant, where we have a scatter plot showing every commercial patient that we’ve utilized, and we show them the decision making change and behavior change that’s occurred as a result. And so we’re educating not just on the data, but we’re also looking at it and stating, hey, these are your peers.

This is what’s occurring across The United States. We’re leading, commercially and we want to demonstrate that it’s it’s not that they’re being left behind, but they can apply those same learnings. And so we really go in in an educational opportunity. I think this year when I talk about it being transformative and you look at it and say HEDIS measures, guideline inclusion, publishing altitude, potentially, multiple interim analysis on Clarify, we’ve done everything we can to put ourselves in a wonderful position with payers and with physicians that continue to expand and adopt this within their practice.

Dan Brennan, Life Science Tools and Diagnostics Analyst, TD Cowan: So the gross margins are terrific. Are they sustainable long term?

Scott Hutton, CEO, BioDeskics: Yeah. They are. And really, really proud of the team and a shout out to our our development team. A couple of initiatives last year where we really were trying to focus on improving through just efficiencies and and small improvements here and there. We can continue to maintain these, and there’s modest room for improvement as we grow to scale, right, as you get more tests run.

So we’re proud of that. You know, any diagnostic company that’s between the 7580% gross margin range really is in a unique position. We have similar gross margins on our biopharma services. So for us, as we continue to grow and scale, we feel pretty confident that we can get to the adjusted EBITDA profitability and then progress towards cash flow positivity in 2026.

Dan Brennan, Life Science Tools and Diagnostics Analyst, TD Cowan: Just kind of remind us of the patent kind of, you know, kind of patent position around Notify?

Scott Hutton, CEO, BioDeskics: Yes. So Notify is made up of two different unique tests, both blood based proteomic test. One, we’re measuring proteins in combination with clinical factors and the other is auto antibodies. A proprietary test, we have focused on building a strong IP portfolio to protect them and we’ve continued to add on to them. There’s also significant know how that goes into that that defends us.

And so again with no known competition coming for the next two plus years, we have got a we’ve got ourselves really well positioned from an IP perspective and we’ll continue to invest in that. The team is constantly trying to research what we can do to improve those tests.

Dan Brennan, Life Science Tools and Diagnostics Analyst, TD Cowan: And there is a competitor out there. Just kind of walk through, you know, where you see that competitive landscape evolving too.

Scott Hutton, CEO, BioDeskics: Yeah. You know, if you go all the way back to 2018, at that point in time, we would have assumed there was four to five competitors in the space now. Unfortunately, one of those failed in validation back in the 2018, ’20 ’19 time frame. Another that was in the space has exited the space, and and their subsequent product that they

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