Earnings call transcript: Bank Mandiri Q4 2024 reports steady growth

Bank Mandiri, Indonesia’s largest bank by assets, reported its Q4 2024 earnings, showcasing a steady growth trajectory amid challenging market conditions. The bank’s consolidated net profit rose 1.3% year-over-year, reaching Rp 55.8 trillion. Despite the growth, the stock saw a decline of 2.64% in market trading, closing at Rp 5,675. According to InvestingPro data, the bank maintains a strong market position with a market capitalization of $31.5 billion and currently trades near its 52-week low, suggesting potential value opportunity. InvestingPro analysis indicates the stock is currently undervalued based on its Fair Value calculations.

Key Takeaways

• Consolidated net profit increased by 1.3% YoY to Rp 55.8 trillion.
• Total (EPA:TTEF) revenue saw a 5.73% YoY increase, reaching Rp 146.6 trillion.
• The stock price fell by 2.64% in market trading.
• Loan growth outpaced industry averages, with a 19.5% YoY increase.

Company Performance

Bank Mandiri demonstrated resilience in Q4 2024, with a consolidated net profit increase of 1.3% compared to the previous year. The bank’s performance was bolstered by a 5.73% rise in total revenue, reaching Rp 146.6 trillion. Key growth areas included digital banking and wholesale banking, where the bank maintained its market leadership.

Financial Highlights

• Revenue: Rp 146.6 trillion, up 5.73% YoY
• Net Profit: Rp 55.8 trillion, up 1.3% YoY
• Pre-Provision Operating Profit: Rp 88 trillion, up 3.8% YoY
• Return on Equity: 21.2%
• Cost to Income Ratio: 35% (bank only), 40% (consolidated)

Market Reaction

Despite the positive earnings report, Bank Mandiri’s stock price fell by 2.64%, closing at Rp 5,675. This decline may reflect broader market trends or investor concerns over future challenges. The stock remains well within its 52-week range, with a high of Rp 7,550 and a low of Rp 5,400.

Outlook & Guidance

Looking ahead, Bank Mandiri has set a loan growth target of 10-12% for 2025. The bank aims to maintain a net interest margin (NIM) between 5-5.2% and expects the cost of credit to normalize between 1-1.2%. The focus remains on expanding the transactional CASA and value chain growth while maintaining an ROE above 20%.

Executive Commentary

CEO Namal Anjunaidi stated, "We remain committed to maintaining market leadership while ensuring strong profitability." The bank’s strategy has been effective in managing asset quality, as highlighted by Anjunaidi’s comment on the value chain ecosystem strategy.

Risks and Challenges

• Tight liquidity environment: The system-wide liquidity remains tight, potentially impacting lending growth.
• Market competition: Intense competition in digital banking could pressure margins.
• Economic conditions: Slower-than-expected GDP growth or higher inflation could affect consumer spending and loan demand.

Q&A

During the Q&A session, analysts focused on the stability of non-performing loans (NPL) in the SME segment and strategies for reducing the loan-to-deposit ratio (LDR). Executives also addressed deposit growth expectations and funding cost management, emphasizing the bank’s proactive approach to maintaining financial stability.

Full transcript - Bank Mandiri Persero Tbk PT (BMRI) Q4 2024:

Chris, Head of Investments, Bank of Mander: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.

Welcome to Bank of Mander twenty twenty four’s briefing, and thank you for joining us today. My name is Chris, Head of Investments. And together with today, we our

Lal: our

Chris, Head of Investments, Bank of Mander: IT. Before we start, we have strong courage to download both digital material and financial and available on investor page. Later, we have a notification in our approach So rather than waiting and you are encouraged to questions into the Zoom (NASDAQ:ZM) box the presentation. Please name, the question. Address from the chat first, prioritize and minimum redundancy.

We’ll open for a live quarter once we’ve the main point if it’s allowed. This new approach for a fast time, which in turn allow hopefully questions to the audience. We’re also asking questions, else and

Patim, IT Director, Bank Mandiri: questions again.

Namal Anjunaidi, CEO, Bank Mandiri: Ladies and

Chris, Head of Investments, Bank of Mander: gentlemen, let

Namal Anjunaidi, CEO, Bank Mandiri: 90 economic growth expected around May ’20 ’20 ’5 by the administration 1% with Tunisia stock range. This allowed to cut its reference rate by 25 basis point 75% in January 2025. Meanwhile, the Rupiah remains confident in the economic outlook. On the lending front, our loan growth continues to pace the industry, reaching 20.7% in 2024 to the industry’s 10.4%. Our liquidity tied across this year.

Loan growth was strategic as the corporate segment had a key role in driving future expansion. This aligns with our value chain system strategy where strong corporate relationships serve as an entry to deeper engagement with their suppliers, employees and other business network. Last year saw strong corporate momentum, reinforcing the need to support this while

Patim, IT Director, Bank Mandiri: improving

Namal Anjunaidi, CEO, Bank Mandiri: robust liquidity remains a top priority balance expansions with discipline essential to gaining portfolio Our ratio improved significantly, mandatory outperformed the industry to inform our commitment to sound management amid continuing growth. The positive growth has been volatile and it is 6.82% and in 24% leading the 4.8% yet liquidated were key priority in 2025. Overall, macroeconomic growth remains strong with steady stabilization policy support. Monetary liquidity will be to sustaining balance growth going forward. Ladies and gentlemen, from that, money has been committed to maintaining the shape of ensuring profitability loan and deposit growth despite success is our chain and system strategy, which strengthens corporate relationship and extends our reach into suppliers, distributors and employees.

This approach has proven highly effective not in managing asset quality but also in enhancing transaction funding to capitalize on corporate flows. As a result, we have enforced our Casa Domina at around nine percent even in a liquidity arrangement. That said, our CASA performance remains the room for improvement and fully aware of the areas that need to be addressed, especially current account and also cost demand deposit. To further strengthen our position enhancement, digital infrastructure and cash management solution as well as click value chain cushion strategy will be key. Beyond share, we also translated this strategy to profitability, closing the year with bank ROE of 21.4%, ROE at 2.87%.

Looking ahead, we remain committed to deepen our presence across corporate value chains during that early relationship we built extends further into the ecosystem, driving both suitable growth and profitability in 2025 and beyond. Now as you know, let’s begin our fourth quarter twenty twenty four assessment breaking down our strength and challenges. On the strength side, strong growth, consistent improvement of quality, solid recurring income growth, digital fee and an improvement in consolidated name during quarter twenty twenty. Financials and composition. However, challenges emerge during the period.

We see growth here on low cost of five, while less income came in lower than this year. Despite headwinds, net’s growth and cost than our guidance while consolidated margin remained in line with our guidance. Next (LON:NXT), despite changes related to funding costs, Bhanmani remained positive in both top and profit. As of December 2020, our consolidated net profit by 1% year on reaching Rupiah 55,800,000,000,000.0. While operating increased 3.8% year on year, totaling 8,000,000,000,000.

This was supported by a 5.7% increase in total revenue reflecting business momentum despite cost pressure. Our consolidated loan portfolio expanded by 90.5% on year, reaching RUB 1,671,000,000,000.000, adopting the India and reinforced our strong position in the market. This growth was implemented as a deposit which grew 8.4% year on year to 1,221, allowing us to manage costs more efficiently. Technical still in the solution.

Chris, Head of Investments, Bank of Mander: One Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay.

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Lal: Test. Good. All right. Apologies, first of all, for the, some of the delay that we experienced. We experienced some technical issues and we just had it solved quite recently.

So I think for the best of the presentation, allow us to present the material from the beginning and hopefully, we can go through it. So I’ll allow Namal Anjunaidi, our CEO, to start the presentation from the first slide. Thank you very

Namal Anjunaidi, CEO, Bank Mandiri: much. Thank you, Lau. Again, good morning, everyone, ladies and gentlemen. First of all, let us briefly examine the macroeconomic landscape. EDP growth is expected to reach around 5% in 2024 and five point one three percent in 2025, supported by the new administration’s policies aimed at accelerating economic expansion.

Inflation is projected to remain stable at 2.38% following 1.6% last year, staying well within Bank Indonesia’s target range. This allowed BI to cut its reference rate by 25 basis points to 5.75% in January 2025. Meanwhile, the Rupiahs remained stable, reinforcing confidence in the economic outlook. On the lending front, our loan growth continues to outpace the industry, reaching 20.7% in 2024 compared to the industry’s 10.4%. While liquidity remained tight across the system last year, loan growth was a strategic necessity, particularly as the corporate segment played a key role in driving future expansion.

This aligns with our value chain ecosystem strategy where strong corporate relationship serve as an entry point to deeper engagement with their suppliers, employees and other business networks. Last year saw exceptionally strong corporate demand momentum, reinforcing the need to support this growth while maintaining prudent liquidity management. While growth has been robust, asset quality remains a top priority. Balancing expansion with risk discipline is essential to maintaining portfolio health. NPL ratios have improved significantly with Mandirri consistently outperforming the industry, reinforcing our commitment to sound risk management amid continued lending growth.

Deposit growth has been volatile with Mandirri’s six point eight two percent in 2024 exceeding industry 4.48% yet liquidity and liability franchise is our key priority in 2025. Overall, the macroeconomic outlook remains strong with steady growth, stable inflation and policy support. Monitoring liquidity will be key to sustaining balanced growth going forward. Ladies and gentlemen, from the start, Mandirih has been committed to maintaining market leadership while ensuring strong profitability, consistently delivering sounds ROE and ROA. By December 2024, we successfully retained our dominant market position in both loan and deposit growth despite liquidity challenges.

A key driver of this success is our value chain ecosystem strategy, which strengthens corporate relationships and extends our reach into their suppliers, distributors and employees. This approach has proven highly effective not only in managing asset quality but also in enhancing transactional funding as we capitalize on corporate cash flows. As a result, we have reinforced our CASA dominance at around 19% even in a tight liquidity environment. That said, while our CASA performance remains strong, there is still room for improvement and we are fully aware of the areas that need to be addressed, especially on current account, to further strengthen to our position enhancement in digital infrastructure and cash management solutions, as well as clear value chain execution strategy will be key. Beyond market share, we have also translated this strategy into profitability, closing the year with a bank only ROE of 21.4% and ROE 2.87%.

Looking ahead, we remain committed to deepening our presence across corporate value chains, ensuring that every relationship we build extends further into the ecosystem, driving both sustainable growth and long term profitability in 2025 and beyond. Now, as usual, let’s begin our fourth quarter twenty twenty four assessment by breaking down our strengths and challenges. On the strength side, we saw strong loan growth, consistent improvement of asset quality, solid growth from digital fees and an improvement in consolidated NIM during the fourth quarter twenty twenty four. These factors reinforce our overall financial resilience and competitive position. However, challenges also emerged during the period.

Weak system deposit growth environment put pressure on the overall cost of funds, while non interest income from cash recoveries came in lower than the previous year. Despite these headwinds, we managed to deliver loan growth and credit cost better than our guidance, while our consolidated margin remained in line with our guidance. Ladies and gentlemen, next, despite challenges related to funding costs, Bamaniri sustained positive growth in both P Pop and net profit. As of December 2024, our consolidated net profit grew by 1.3% cent year on year, reaching Rp55.8 trillion, while Pre Provision Operating Profit increased by 3.8 per cent year on year, totaling Rp88 trillion. This was supported by a 5.73% increase in total revenue, reflecting robust business momentum despite funding cost pressures.

Our consolidated loan portfolio expanded by 19.5% year on year, reaching Rp1671 trillion, outperforming the industry and reinforcing our strong position in the market. This growth was complemented by Casa deposits, which grew by 8.49% year on year to Rp1271 trillion, allowing us to manage funding costs more efficiently. However, system wide liquidity constrained exert pressure on funding costs, with cost of funds rising by 42 basis points to 2.16% between 2023 to 2024. Despite this, we successfully maintained our consolidated NIM at 5.15% higher Q on Q. Crucially, our loan expansion was accompanied by disciplined risk management, allowing us to lower the cost of credit to 0.79%, down from 0.85% in 2023.

This reflects ongoing improvements in asset quality, further strengthening our balance sheet. As a result, ROE stood at 2.42% while ROE remained strong at 21.2%, well above the 20% threshold, reinforcing our ability to generate sustainable returns for shareholders. In summary, these results reflect our strategic focus on growth, profitability and risk discipline. While funding costs remain a challenge, our strong deposit franchise asset quality improvements and revenue diversification position us well for 2025. Ladies and gentlemen, let me briefly discuss our loan growth profile.

By the end of 2024, our strong loan growth was primarily driven by the wholesale segment, which grew by 25.5% year on year, reinforcing Mandirri’s position as a leading wholesale bank. Corporate loans grew by 26.7% year on year, while commercial loans expanded by 23% year on year, benefiting from an exceptionally strong wholesale demand environment throughout the year. Meanwhile, our Retail segment grew very much in line with industry trend at 11%. This diversified growth allowed us to close the year above our consolidated loan growth guidance. Rucially, our growth was not driven by risk taking or aggressive pricing, but by our strategic focus on wholesale relationship and capitalizing on strong corporate momentum.

This is evident in our interest income from loans which has consistently improved this quarter, reaching Rp 27,200,000,000,000.0 in fourth quarter twenty four, approximately 22% higher year on year, demonstrating strong pricing discipline. However, while loan growth was robust, net interest income growth did not expand at the same pace. This was due to higher funding costs reflected in a 42 basis points increase in cost of deposits rather than loan pricing. The high interest rate environment, tightening system liquidity and rising deposit competition exerted upward pressure on funding costs, partially offsetting the strong loan driven interest income growth. At the same time, asset quality remained intact, particularly in wholesale, while net NPL formation in REIT continued to improve reaffirming our ability to grow without compromising risk management.

Looking ahead, our strategy remains clear, leveraging our strength in wholesale banking while maintaining disciplined risk and pricing management to drive sustainable growth with a continued focus on optimizing funding costs to maximize margin expansion and ultimately ROE. Next, Mandiri corporate’s ecosystem strategy and tech investment have been instrumental in strengthening our Casa franchise, Our live in digital banking platform, which enables us online customer acquisition and product cross selling, has helped us outperform the industry in saving deposit growth for multiple years, while keeping cost of funds stable at under 0.5%. In 2024, leave in transaction volume surged 37.8% year on year, reinforcing our ability to capture low cost transactional saving deposits. On the demand deposit side, headline growth came in a 3.47% in December, a sharp deterioration here on view as we strategically release high cost special rate deposits amid rising competition. However, SMA demand deposits, which currently accounts for 21.1 of total demand deposits, grew by 12.2% year on year, well above the industry, supported by our value chain transactional ecosystem.

Notably, SME demand deposit cost of fund is 1.8%, which is significantly lower than our overall demand deposit cost of funds of 2.87%, optimizing funding costs while expanding our business going forward. A key driver of this value chain liability growth is our Copra cash management platform, where transaction volumes grew 21% year on year, translating into a higher proportion of stable low cost SME demand deposits. Going forward, we will continue leveraging our digital ecosystem and value chain strategy to expand Casa, maintain pricing discipline and optimize funding costs, reducing our reliance on high cost deposits. Let me now move on to the name trend. Despite strong loan growth in 2024, we maintained pricing discipline as reflected in our stable loan use, particularly in the Commercial, SME and Consumer segments, which held up well in fourth quarter twenty twenty four higher from the previous quarter as shown in the top left chart.

On the funding side, while tight liquidity condition led to an increase in overall deposit costs Q on Q, our savings and demand deposit cost of funds remain stable, helping us manage our net interest margins. As previously mentioned, our loan to deposit ratio increased to 98% as of December 2024 as we actively cut high cost special rate deposits and shifted focus towards strengthening our liability franchise. While this led to a temporary spike in December, we have seen normalization back to low 90% in January 2025, reinforcing our strategy of balancing loan growth with disciplined funding management. On a net basis, our NIM improved sequentially in fourth quarter twenty twenty four and we aim to sustain this positive trajectory into 2025 through continued pricing discipline, a strong funding base and an optimized asset rate liability mix. Next, let’s discuss non interest income.

As December 2024, our total consolidated non interest income reached Rp 42,300,000,000,000.0, reflecting a 4.12% year on year increase, largely driven by recurring fee income, particularly digital fees, treasury income and non interest income from our subsidiaries. We continue to see strong momentum in digital fee income, which grew in line with our Casa and transaction volume expansion. This growth was primarily driven by Lifin and Copra, which have been instrumental in scaling our transactional ecosystem. In 2024, Lifen and Copra contributed a combined Rp5.03 trillion, reinforcing their role as key revenue drivers in our banking strategy. However, cash recoveries declined by 26.4% year on year, falling below our target due to a challenging macro environment and the high base effect from 2023.

The shortfall in cash recoveries was a key factor behind the moderation in our net profit growth as it offset some of the strong gains from our digital fee income and subsidiary performance. On the subsidiary side, fee income remains strong, particularly from BSI, further supporting overall non interest income growth. Going forward, we will continue leveraging digital transactions and fee based income as a key growth driver, while maintaining a disciplined approach to managing recoveries and optimizing recurring revenue streams. Now let’s shift gears to operational costs. As of December 2024, we closed the year with a cost to income ratio of 35% at the bank only level and 40% on a consolidated basis, marking a significant improvement from pre COVID levels.

It is important to highlight that operational expense tend to be seasonally higher in the second half of the year, which is reflected in our cost trend. However, our continued focus on efficiency and digitalization has been a key driver in keeping costs under control. Our Livin and Copra platform have expanded our network reach and enhance customer acquisition without the need for costly physical infrastructure. At the same time, digital transformation has allowed us to stay focused toward upscaling our talent, increasing workforce productivity and optimizing operational processes. That said, there is still room for improvement, particularly from our subsidiaries with BSI being a key area of focus for further cost efficiency.

For a deeper dive into our operational cost management strategy, Our CFO will provide further insights later in the presentation. Next, I would like to address asset quality. Our strong loan growth in 2024 was achieved without compromising risk discipline. This reflects our value chain strategy which enable us to expand lending within trusted ecosystems, corporates, their suppliers and employees ensuring high quality growth. Despite challenges in retail asset quality, we successfully improved our loan at risk ratio to below 7% better than pre COVID levels.

This disciplined risk management allowed us to keep credit costs below 1% supported by provision reversals during the year. Looking at coverage, despite our low credit costs, we maintained NPL coverage at a prudent level with bank only at 304% and consolidated at 271% as of December 2024, aligned with our long term target of around 275% for bank only. Additionally, our consolidated Laro coverage remains strong at 45% still higher than pre COVID levels, providing a solid caution against potential risk. Looking ahead, we remain confident in sustaining asset quality in 2024 as our loan growth is backed by strong underwriting standards and the resilience of our value chain approach. This ensures that our expansions remains both profitable and sustainable, reinforcing Mandirri’s position as a leader in risk adjusted growth.

Finally, let me present our consolidated guidance for 2025. We expect loan growth of range 10% to 12%, aligned with expected deposit growth or lower as we prioritize liability management. Unlike last year, where wholesale loan growth led expansions, this year we will focus on value chain extraction, leveraging corporate ecosystems to drive value chain driven growth and strengthen our Casa franchise. This ensures loan growth follows deposit growth, allowing us to maintain or even lower LDR to mid to low 90 levels while improving cost of fund and hopefully NIM. For NIM, we conservatively guide range 5% to 5.2% reflecting our cautious stance on the industry deposit environment.

While we aim to expand transactional Casa and optimize funding costs, we prefer to see improvements in the industry wide deposit landscape before adopting a more optimistic view. Additionally, our focus on lowering LDR may act as temporary drag on NIM, reinforcing our prudent approach. On credit costs, we expect 1% to 1.2% reflecting a normalization as loan growth moderates. The increase does not indicate asset quality deterioration, but rather lower provision reversals compared to previous years. Our asset quality remains stable, supported by strong underwriting and the resilience of our value chain strategy.

Looking ahead, while we take a measured approach to 2025, our long term focus remains unchanged, delivering an ROE above 20% through disciplined execution of our value chain strategy and a strong transactional Casa franchise. Now I would like to pass on the presentation to Pa Sigit, our CFO. Please Pa Sigit.

Sigit, CFO, Bank Mandiri: Thank you, Badar Mahan. Ladies and gentlemen, allow me to talk through our financial highlight. In 2024, we strategically shifted our focus in interest earning asset, prioritizing loan growth over lower yield securities. As a result, while loan expanded strongly, our receivable and also government bond declined by 3.88.3% year on year, respectively. This was deliberate reallocation of the resources to capture high loan demand while maintaining an optimal asset mix.

Consequently, Total asset grew by 11.6% year on year. On the liability side, Carnacom grew modestly at 3.6% year on year as we actively release high cost wholesale deposit toward the end of the year. However, saving deposit grew strongly by 13.4% year on year, driving overall Casa growth of 8.49% year on year. Looking ahead, we expect deposit growth to be led by transaction evaluating CASA, which will further support lower cost of fund and also more efficient funding structure. Now moving to the P and L side, the total interest income grew by 14.1% year on year, driven by loan interest income, which expanded by 19.5% year on year, while interest income from bond declined by 7.62% year on year, reflecting our shift toward higher yielding loan assets.

On the funding side, tight liquidity condition led to 35% year on year increase in interest expense, impacting non interest income, NE growth, which came in at 6.12 year on year. Sperately, non interest income rose 4.12% year on year, supported by recurring digital fee income, while recovery income face pressure. Working on overall performance, despite this total revenue grew by 5.73% year on year to Rupiah 146,600,000,000,000.0. With operational cost increased by 8.8% year on year, we maintained consolidated cost to income ratio at 40%, ensuring cost efficiency remain intact. This result in pre provision operating profit growth of 3.77% year on year, ultimately supporting the net profit growth of 1.3% year on year to Rupiah 55,800,000,000,000.0.

Next, let’s look at our key ratios. As previously mentioned, our consolidated net interest margin improved slightly on Q on Q basis, reaching 5.15 in 2024. On the cost side, our operational cost to income ratio stood at 40%, while cost of credit cost remained low at 0.79% reflecting disciplined expenses and also stable asset quality. In term of return, our return on equity stand at 21.2% and we remain committed to maintaining an ROE above 20% in line with our long term strategy. Shifting to liquidity, our bank only LTR increased to 98% in 4Q twenty twenty four, following our delivery strategy to reduce expensive funding.

However, as anticipate, LTR has since normalized declining to low 90% range in early twenty twenty five. Moving forward, we plan to keep LTR at mid to low 90% level as loan growth moderate and deposit growth strengthened through transactional CASA. On the asset quality, as our CEO highlight, NPL improved to 1.12% while loan address declined to 6.8% reflecting resilient portfolio. We believe asset quality will remain healthy in 2025 supported by prudent risk management and also disciplined loan underwriting. Ladies and gentlemen, let’s now take a close at our loan and also deposit breakdown.

In 2024, loan growth was led by wholesale segment reinforcing money reposition as a as a letting in wholesale bank. Corporate corporate loan expand by 26.7% year on year, while commercial loan grew by 23% year on year, driven by strong demand in the wholesale space. Meanwhile, retail loan grew in line with the industry at 11% maintaining a balanced portfolio. Beyond the core bank, our subsidiaries also contributed significantly with 15.2% year on year loan growth, reflecting Maniry expanding footprint across multiple segment. As a result, total consolidated loan growth stood at 19.5% year on year, exceeding our initial guiding.

Looking ahead, as mentioned by our CEO, we expect loan growth of 10% to 12% in 2025 with a strategic shift toward harnessing in retail ecosystem with our value chain. This mean leveraging our strong corporate relationship to drive expansion into supplier, distributor and also employee ensuring high quality and also sustainable growth. On the deposit side, we actively reduced our Riesz, real expense funding in 2020 in 4Q twenty twenty four, leading to the decline in time deposit and also release of costly wholesale demand deposit. This was a deliberate moving to stabilize our cost of funding and also optimize our funding mix. In 2025, our focus will be growing low cost funding sources, particularly saving deposit and also SME demand deposit, which have proven to be sticky and also cost efficiency.

Importantly, with the loan growth now following the deposit growth, we expect deposit to deposit to outpace our loan, allowing us to bring LDR drawn to mid 90% level further reinforcing reinforcing, liquidity discipline by prioritizing transaction CASA expansion, optimize funding cost and also ensuring disciplined loan growth, we are confident that Mandirri will continue delivering sustainable growth and also strong return. Next, let’s discuss our interest margin, net interest margin or NIM performance. For full year 2024, our bank only NIM stood at 4.93%, slightly higher than nine month twenty twenty four, four point nine one percent supported by improved loan yield and also higher LDR. Breaking it down further, loan yield increased across the commercial, consumer, and also SME segment, driven by new loan repricing effort, which we expect to continue throughout 2025. And meanwhile, corporate loan yield remains stable in 4Q twenty twenty four.

On the funding side, our total cost of fund rose to 2.31% in 4Q twenty twenty four from 2.21% in the previous quarter, driven by higher time deposit costs. And however, saving deposit and also demand deposit remain stable. At the consolidated level, NIM improved from 5.11% in nine months twenty twenty four to 5.15% by year end. Looking ahead, we see opportunities to further reduce our funding costs as liquidity condition improve, supported by more Doviste 10 from Bank Indonesia and also various government initiatives aimed at boosting domestic liquidity, including overall government spending programs such as freelance program, DTE, export regulation, and all of which expanded to create more favorable funding environment in 2025. Next on non interest income.

Overall, our consolidated non interest income for full year 2024 reached $42,300,000,000,000 or increased by 4.12% year on year, led by recurring income that grew by 11.3 year on year. The recurring income growth was largely driven by the digital fee income from leave in, which grew by 20.7% year on year and also loan related fee, which grew by 13.2% year on year. We expect recurring non interest income to still grow by double digit in 2025, supported by digital income as we focus on building our transaction value chain Casa franchise. On the other hand, we see non interest income declining by 15.7% year on year, largely resulting from slow recoveries due to challenging macro condition. In 2025, we expect non recurring non interest income to normalize to mid single digit growth.

Furthermore, we see that subsidiaries’ non interest income has improved to growing 30.2% year on year, driven by Fancery Indonesia and also out of finance subsidiaries. We expect our total non interest income to continue to grow in mid single digit in 2025. Turning to operational expense, we maintained strongly cost discipline in 2024 with our cost income ratio at 35% for the bank only and also 40% on the consolidated basis, a continued improvement from pre COVID level. While seasonality impact cost in the fourth quarter, our focus on digital transformation and also operational efficiency help us to optimize spending. This expansion of Livin and Copra has played a key role in enhancing productivity and scaling customer acquisition without significant cost increase.

We also maintain strict control over discretionary spending, ensuring that personal expand and also IT investment are aligned with the long term productivity again. However, as we expand, subsidiaries, particularly BSE, remain a focus for the cost efficiency improvement. Going forward, we will continue to balance investment in the growth initiative with disciplined cost management, ensuring sustainability in profitability and also strong return. Now let me provide an update on our asset quality as of December 2024. Despite strong loan growth, our asset quality remain robust, demonstrating our prudent credit underwriting approach.

Our NPL ratio and also loan at risk ratio have reached all time low reflecting discipline, risk management, and also high quality loan expansion. At the same time, we remain well provisioned with consolidated loan at risk, coverage ratio of 45% and NPL coverage ratio of two seventy one percent, ensuring a strong buffer against potential risk. In 2024, we execute some provision reversal, allowing our cost of credit, to decline to below 1% as we optimize our coverage level. Heading into 02/2025, we expect credit cost to normalize at around one percent through, to, to this does not indicate, deterministic, deterring in asset quality. Instead, it reflect a return to more typically provisioning cycle following the reversal, seen the last year.

We remain confident in sustainability sustaining a healthy asset quality in 02/2025, supporting by rigorous risk management and our our value chain strategy, which ensuring a high quality loan and also a high quality loan expansion across our ecosystem. Now let’s discuss our capital positioning. As of December 2024, Bangwon Dairy Car remained stable at 20.1, well within our range, ensuring strong capital resilience to support future growth. Looking ahead, we intend to maintain our car and also tier one ratio within 18 to 20% range, over the near to medium term, striking a balance between capital efficiency and also sustainable expansion. With the loan growth expected to decelerate in 2025, We recognize to potential for higher dividend payout ratios as a part of our capital optimization strategy.

And as we mentioned that, this is not a final decision, and this remain an option that it actively being assessed. I would like now to pass on the presentation to Patim, our IT Director, to continue the presentation on our digital and also ESG initiative. Mr. Patim?

Patim, IT Director, Bank Mandiri: Thank you, Sigit. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. I’ll take my presentation in two parts. The first one is on the digital development and progress, and on the second part is on the SG. So let me now move to the first part of the digital, which is on the retail side, live in.

I would like to again, after three years running since the launch in October 2025 2021, Livin has served as the primary gateway for our retail transaction, as you can see and discussed earlier. That in all fronts, we are showing a significant growth, double digit strong growth in terms of transaction, being transactional platform, in terms of the transaction value, as well as fee based as you can see, on the slide. But what is very important now, we have actually delivered where all the retail transactions, that are noncash related, 99% is already conducted through our Super App live in. The savings deposit growth has continued to outgrow the industry and we perform well within the guidance that we have given before. Next, I’d just like to show the, how we have become dominant as an everyday banking app.

So this is a very important point because Livin has been seen in the market as the everyday banking app by our clients. And in particular, you know, the two very important parts we can see the QR payment in Indonesia has significantly increased and Livin in particular is showing very, very strong results where the frequency has gone up three times over since last year. At the same time, I think we are also managing the market for FX transactions and has grown strongly for our retail clients. What we focus to enable to get this is actually on the ease of use. We keep improving our UI, UX, the experience that our customers feel when they are using our super app.

Next, you have heard from our CEO, Padra Mahwan, in terms of our strategy of executing the ecosystem, and this is now reflected fully in terms of how we launch, and leveraging the ecosystem execution from a wholesale client’s employee payrolls. Livin today has provided all retail lending products on the platform where six retail random products are there and it’s continually giving very good progress in terms of growth from all the credit cards installments. You can see 90% is now done through live in, cash advance, disbursement, strongly and also showing a good outcome whilst we are moving this with rigor and managing the returns. The buy now pay laces has grown encouragingly positive. Now let me move next to say that beyond the lending products, our investment products have been very encouraging to see the growth there.

With the latest one, we have introduced the stock purchasing for equities through our Mandiri securities. The transactions, as you can see from on the right hand side, the intensity and the growth has been very strong. In particular, I would just want to highlight that we have increased the growth in trade account opening through Livin by 10 times over. So this is again our effort to provide all the investment capabilities for our retail clients. Next, equally, I think, we have now developed our loyalty features that drives higher transactions, balances, and and in particular, improves the customer stickiness.

You can see that our the ones that are really driven, you know, with loyalty points, we can see the difference with terms of loyalty users versus non loyalty users. So we introduced the likes of gamification and to help boost our clients’ loyalty. So we’ll continue to develop this, and the aim is for one users to bring three new living users going forward through our loyalty program. Next, I’d just like to say that all the things that we develop, we develop with very clear framework, as you can see, on the left hand side, where the doughnuts are representing everything that we built and live in is always about saving money, moving money, borrowing money, and growing money with the ecosystem that we run underneath. You can tell that from what we’ve done, we have, continued to improve now, our UI UX.

So features wise, we’re reasonably complete, but what we’ll continue to do is actually improving our customer experience. And this will continue to be done relentlessly through our innovation to improving the experience for our clients. There will be some next releases that you will see in the second quarter of this year and it will be a lot more with AI enabled while we’re already using AI. Next, in closing for live in, I think this is a very important slide that I would like to highlight to you as far as the outcome is concerned. I think from a live in perspective, we have seen that, you know, the first section there, we are not yet the highest in terms of users.

If we are represented by x, there are the banks that have do have higher, users on the apps. But if what you can see, because we are really focusing on the UI UX and the use cases, in, 2022, ’20 ’20 ’3, after we launched, we have started to see very encouraging results when our savings account, incremental savings balances, actually has outperformed the other banks. But war is more encouraging. You see, after 2023 to 2024, that trend even is more exciting. The growth has been even higher.

That is showing that from an incremental of savings account balances that we have been able to book by focusing on the right use cases and the right customer experience. Like I said in the opening, we have become the dominant, everyday super app. Now let me move to the next part of live in, which is for our merchants. Equally, the merchant transactions have seen a significant increase in terms of monthly active users from when we started to where we are today. You can see from the graphs and from the transaction frequency, leave in merchant has exceeded that of our EDC machines.

Next, I would like to say that, with the recent releases for live in merchant, we are almost complete. We become the most comprehensive merchant solutions for MSME, where we have the onboarding, which is fastest through digital. And more importantly, we have the capability now to accept all cards, inventory, stock purchasing, and procurement, connecting that with our ecosystem in wholesale. The next release is where we’re gonna facilitate real time settlement, which is now done three times a day. So we will believe that this will empower merchants in terms of using live in merchant to be their main acquisition tools.

Let me now shift gears to our next big platform, which is our wholesale platform called Copra. What you can see in Copra now, can you move next? Where the momentum being the wholesale bank, strong wholesale bank, we can see a strong momentum. But I think as, part, Damawan covered and part Sigiri covered earlier, some of the homework that remains to be improved is actually the opportunity to optimize the cost of funds. Whilst Copra has become the largest transaction value in terms of platform that goes through for wholesale clients, executing the value chain is so important where, you know, with Copra now, we are going to look forward to improving to optimize the cost of funds to obtaining the value chain in SME transactions.

So in in order to do that next, I would like to tell you in terms of what we have done because we launched Copra at the same time we launched Livin, but then the development took place between October 2021 to recently when we launched and as I’ve updated before, Copra has been benchmarked to a global standard for the wholesale platform and we benchmarked to two banks globally that we believe have a very strong proposition for transaction. So from a corporate perspective today from our cash management, payment collections, liquidity in terms of also working capital solutions for trade and value chain. And as far as also for the tools for treasurers from reporting and AI capabilities, I can report that with the recent launch in the fourth quarter twenty twenty four, corpora today, I can claim that we are benchmarking at the same level as any global players in terms of, superiority of capabilities and experience. Next, I would like to show that this is the new phase of Copra where the offering for business clients has been strengthened and the ability to maximize transaction capabilities and optimize cost of funds. Even for liquidity, as you can see, one thing we are the only one today that are able to do liquidity management, combining different accounts from a different structure of same comp same company groups with a drag and drop, so it’s very easy of use.

And obviously, behind that is all the supply financing solution that will enable us to move into the SME part of it. Next, I think I’d just like to say that we will continuously innovate. We will not stop, similarly live in that we have had that experience. We will do cost releases for the next levels. But then again, COBRA always going to anchor on the principle that is on the left, which is about wholesale digital treasure, digital working capital, ecosystem partner and business intelligence advisers.

So the ecosystem partners, Copa partnership will be the next release that we’re gonna put in the market. Let me now shift gear to ESG. ESG, I think we’d like to report that, we are, we are very pleased to say that we have embarked on a transformative journey, to strengthen our ESG initiatives. So our consistent effort has led to a remarkable achievement, and in particular in 2024, we have improved our MSCI ESG rating to, BBB with enhancements across all aspects of E, S, and G. More recently, our, what is very important is our Sustainalytics rating has improved from 28.45 to 17.5 and this has just come out in January 2025.

This actually has taken us our classification from medium to low and solidifying our position as the lowest risk bank in Indonesia. More recently, our Sustainability six ESG ratings, not only this, but again, you know, we will continue to drive the our leadership in sustainability banking, where we will continue to improve our risk ESG risk management. These achievements actually reflect our commitment to global sustainability standards, robust risk management, and long term value creation for our shareholders. Next, ladies and gentlemen, I’ll just, say that we continuously enhance our ESG policies to align with best practice standards across all areas. First, in the environmental sector, we have strengthened our ESRM framework, including a 12 sector credit policy for responsible financing.

Second, in the social sector, we focus on data privacy, security, responsible marketing, and consumer protection. Third, in governance, we have reinforced corporate behavior and ethics policies to uphold integrity at all levels. We are also the first national bank in Indonesia to adopt a sustainable finance framework and a transition finance framework that provide better transparency and accountability in the credit policy implementation. Next, I would like to say that on sustainability banking pillar, our sustainable portfolio has reached $293,000,000,000,000 as of 2024 or grew 10.8% year on year as we continue to grow into sustainable sectors. The breakdown of by categories, our social portfolio also grew by 6.5% while our green sector financing grew by 15.2% year on year, driven by our focus on growing loan in renewable energy area, eco efficient products, and clean transportation sector.

This commitment has allowed Mandiri to position ourselves as the dominant market share in green portfolio among our competitors in Indonesia. Going forward, we expect to maintain our leading position by continuously supporting sustainable portfolio growth. Now let me move to sustainable operations where we remain committed to achieving net zero emission or NZE by 02/1930 for our operations. And we have streamlined our operations to be more eco friendly. We are able to reduce our carbon emission by 33%, as you can see on the slides, between 2019 and 2024.

This reduction has been driven by several key actions, including the installation of solar panels, development of green buildings, and support for EV and hybrid ecosystem. Lastly, on our pillar for sustainable beyond banking, we continuously support financial inclusion through our digital strategy across all areas in Indonesia. For example, Livin Merchant, our effort in digitalizing small merchants Indonesia have reached 1,500,000 users in the non urban area, which is a very significant achievement showing a 42% year on year growth. Our CSR programs such as Wira Ousaha Mandiri, Mandiri Sahabatkou and Rice Milling Unit also create impacts on by focusing on the empowering of small businesses, creating new entrepreneurship and supporting rural areas. The last piece I’d like to highlight is that we also provide a fair and equitable working environment by giving every gender the same opportunity.

Currently, we are close to 50% of our manager level employees is filled by female leaders. That marks the end of my session, and I’ll hand it back to Lal for the Q and A.

Lal: Thank you very much, Fatim, and thank you to all speakers. Ladies and gentlemen, we have about six questions that came online and we’ll take all of them. The first question is, for 2025 cost of credit of 1% to 1.2%, do you see NPL falling or rising? To what range for NPL coverage? That question will be addressed by Pat Sigit.

The second question is regarding NIM and loan growth. What would you prioritize if deposit growth and deposit environment is much lower expected in 2025? That will also be addressed by Pa Sigit. And the third question is, do you see continued decline on recovery income for 2025 that will also be covered by Pa Sigit? The fourth question is regarding NIM.

Are you seeing lower SRBI rate translating to lower wholesale funding rate? I’ll be covering that one. And then another question regarding NIM as well. What caused higher yield in the fourth quarter of twenty twenty four and can it continue in 2025? I will also cover that one.

And the last question is, since LDR is already at 98% and you are looking to bring LDR down to mid 90%, if deposit growth is below 10%, now you’re looking at very slow loan growth of single digit. I will also address that one. I’ll allow Pasiget to address the first three questions regarding COC name and recoveries. Thank you.

Sigit, CFO, Bank Mandiri: Yeah. Thank you, Lo. As I mentioned before that, our cost of credit this year around 0.8%, we have some profession reversal last year, and that’s where our realization of cost of credits better than expected, 0.8%. And 2025, our guidance is 1.1 to 1.2%, and we believe this is normalized our cost of credit without any releases on provision anymore in this year. It’s not because of worsening on the asset quality.

It’s just a normalized process because this year, we also we plan to grow by 10% to 12%. Of course, we need provision and also the normal territory thing. And at the time, we will maintain our NPL at the same level. Around 1% is our expected, our NPL. So one to 1% is our normalized, our cost of credit that we expect in the in this year, 02/2025.

So again, that overall, our NPL, we expect stabilize around 1%.

Lal: Next question on NIM and loan cost.

Sigit, CFO, Bank Mandiri: Okay. Next question about net interest margin and also loan growth. As we mentioned before that our LDR by the end of the year spiked to 89%, yeah, and sorry, 98% because we, this actively, we let go the expensive funding. And if you see our LDR, man by man, our LDRs maintain around 94%, ninety five % along the last year, except by the end of the year. And we also see our LDR back to around below 95% by January 2025.

So we committed to maintain our LDR lower than last year. We expect mid to low 90% as our expectation of our LDR. If we we want a a how about our net interest margin versus loan growth? So with that, we expect deposit growth higher than loan growth is our aspiration this year. And in about 20% ROE is the key metric for management.

So we will balance everything, including net interest margin, loan growth, deposit growth in order to keep our ROE above 20%. This is our aspiration. The last question about the recoveries. Back to 02/2023 that our recoveries above 10% is a high BIS. BIS.

2024, our recovery around 6.8%, and we believe this is a normal BIS, our recovery. And 2025, we expect recoveries slightly flat or better compared to 02/2024. And based on our assumption, we expect the recovery to 02/2025 around RUB 7,000,000,000,000 to RUB 8,000,000,000,000 following the economic recovery in 2025. So that’s all the answer of all questions. Thank you.

Lal: Thank you. I’ll now address the other three questions. The first one is whether or not lower SRBI rate can translate into lower funding, coastal funding rate. Well, the fact of the matter is that, the SRPI rate is often being compared by some of our depositors, especially on the corporate of the equation. I think that is one of the reason why cost of, for instance, demand deposits, has increased quite meaningfully.

So for example, if you look at, the cost of demand deposit at the moment, we showed this in the early slides where you see that the overall cost of demand deposits is at 2.88%, while the SME cost of demand deposit is at 1.8%, which basically means that the non SMEs, which are mostly wholesale or the big corporates, cost of demand deposit is much higher than 2.88. And that is affected by the rising SRBI rate. So we do believe that there should be some normalization of funding cost should the decline of SRBI rate is sustained and happens moving forward. The second question regarding yield, and question was what caused higher yield in the fourth quarter of ’twenty four and can it continue? If we look at the trend of yield in fourth quarter ’twenty four, there is a clear increase in commercial yield.

There is a clear increase in SME yield, in micro yield as well as consumer. And I think this is very much a result of the commitment when it comes to pricing. We showed earlier as well that the growth of loans of around 20% is followed by interest income from loans growing also 22% year on year. So the commitment on pricing by the management is evidenced by those figures. As regard to the yield, the reason why yield increased in the fourth quarter is simply as simple as higher booking rate.

So for example, if we look at the average yield for, say, for instance, commercial back in third quarter twenty twenty four, The average yield was about 7.37%. But the new booking we had in the fourth quarter since the start of the quarter, I. E, October all the way until December, are averaging at around 8% when it comes to the interest rates. So that basically have effect on an upside effect on the overall yield. Another thing is on SME, for instance.

If you look at the yield of SME back in the third quarter of twenty twenty three sorry, 2024, the number was 7.7%. The average booking rate of SME in the fourth quarter is anywhere between 8.5% to 9.5%. So I think these commitments is the reasons behind the uprising yield in the fourth quarter. And if we look at what the yield of the fourth quarter is compared to the booking rate I just mentioned, mathematically, this would lead to a potentially higher yield in the upcoming quarters as well on these segments or on the aforementioned segments. So the answer is, can it continue in 2025?

At least for first quarter or second quarter, probably yes, on the back of the new higher new booking. Last question on loan to deposit ratio. If the LDR is that if you plan to reduce LDR to 90% or mid 90%, why are you guiding 10% to 12% loan growth? Well, the answer is very simple. That’s because we believe that we can acquire, you know, higher growth in the deposit side of the equation.

So, if we look at the growth of deposit, last year, the quality growth as in saving deposits, we grew saving deposits at a rate of 13% year on year, flat cost of funds. And if we look at demand deposits, yes, there are demand deposits that are grown that grew on the back of special rate, but there are also demand deposits that grew on the back of transactional and that’s why we highlighted our SME demand deposits which grew by 12%, thirteen % year on year earlier in the slides brought by our CEO. And on top of that, there are some regulatory related or macro related factor that push us to believe that deposit should on the system in the system should be relatively better in 2025 versus 2024. So on a net net basis, we, believe, and we have a base case that for Bank Mandiri deposit growth can still support loan growth. In other words, deposit growth to be more than 10 or 12%, and not deposit growth on the back of expensive deposit, but deposit growth on the back of transactional and cheap deposits, which ultimately fully should bodes well for net interest margin.

So those are all the questions from online. Maybe we take one more question from Harsh, from the call. Go ahead, Harsh, and ask your question. This will be last the last question. Sorry.

Thank you. Harsh?

Harsh, Analyst, JPMorgan: Hi. Yeah. Thanks a lot for allowing me to ask the question. If I may, couple of questions. Can the higher SME yield lead to NPL formation in course of 2025?

How do we get comfort? Because if cash flows are tight that the SMEs can sustain higher yields that’s one. Second is you had a very good slide chart on slide 17 on special deposit special rate deposits, which went down to 26% in December. Has that number increased meaningfully in January? And is that the reason why we are getting lower LDR?

Thank you.

Lal: Thank you, Harsh. Good question. We’ll touch on the NPL formation first. Can we bring up the table? Can we show the, the net the NPL formation from the loan growth slide, please?

Quickly. Yes. No, there is a slight engagement highlight with NPL formation. Please show that one. So, Harsh, the SME growth that management has been doing is actually a value chain driven SME, right?

So if you look at the bottom right chart, you will see that basically SME net NPL formation has come down quite meaningfully throughout the years. So in December ’3, our SME net NPL formation is at 2.55%. And as of December 2024, the net NPL formation of SME is at 1.5%. And if I may remind what the average SME net NPL formation throughout 2015 or ’thirteen averaging all the way to 2019 or 2018 is anywhere between 3.5% to 4% or 4.5. So we believe that as long as we focus our growth in SME despite the pricing, pricing comes along.

But as long as we focus on the value chain strategy, then the trend of the net NPL formation will stay, as in a good trend and healthy trend. Another one that I would like to show is the value chain proportion, on the value chain proportion. So this is just to show that the growth of our retail loans, which in it is basically value chain, has been consistently focusing on basically the ecosystem value chain of the bank. So So if you look at the chart on the bottom left, you’ll see that of the total retail loan that we have, which currently stands at $397,000,000,000,000 and a big chunk of that is or part of that is retail is SME, you will see that the value chain proportion has gone from 28.9% to 32.3% to 35%. And it was, by the way, lower than 20% before 2020.

And a big chunk of this growth and increase is either payroll or the SME loan growth. So the key for us is to focus on the value chain. And as long as we focus on the right track, hopefully, the NPE formation can be maintained and not deteriorate. The second question is on the special rate. Unfortunately, we have to get back to you on whether or not the special rate has increased from the last month of last year, December to January.

We’ll get back to you and all the audience that are here.

Harsh, Analyst, JPMorgan: No problem, Lal. Thanks. If I could just have one follow-up on some of your assumptions for deposit growth this year. 2023, your deposits growth was about 2.5% higher than industry deposit growth sorry in 2024. So in 2025 should we expect around 2%, two point five % higher overall deposit growth for the bank versus industry?

Because I’m just trying to understand, are you assuming, let’s say, 15%, sixteen % deposit growth for the bank? And is there assumption of 12%, thirteen % industry growth? Or if industry growth is, let’s say, 5%, six %, seven %, can you still deliver the kind of LDR improvements that you are guiding for? Thank you.

Lal: The answer is yes, Harsh. So two key assumption and notion that we have for deposits. Number one is the notion that industry deposit growth should improve in 2025 compared to 2024 on the back of government spending, net release of SRBI, even if that goes to government bonds, ultimately it goes to fiscal spending, so on and so forth. So the 4%, five % industry deposit growth that we had in 2024 should improve in 2025, and that is our assumption. The second notion and argument is on the idea that Mandiri growing the deposit higher than the industry base.

That is also true. So on the back of the improvement in the industry, deposit growth, we are going to be anywhere between two, three percentage points, you know, of that level, and and that is, also, the reasoning behind our expectation toward loan growth of 10% to 12%, you know, on, on, on the growth side of the equation, both liability and asset, harsh.

Harsh, Analyst, JPMorgan: Great. So just so that I understand it right, the assumption is industry deposit growth will be 13%. Hence, you can grow bank deposit closer to 15% and hence we can get 10% loan growth and still lower LDR.

Lal: We are not saying that industry growth of deposit will be 10%, twelve %. We’re saying that it’s going to be better than last year. Our assumption is probably it’s going to be likely to be higher single digit for the industry. And if we put some three percentage point higher than that, then it will be at 12% when it comes to the deposit growth. In other word in other word, the way we put it is that if there is a higher than expected and better than expected improvement in the deposit environment for the system, then, you know, it’s even more positive for growth of the loans as well as the policy is basically loan follow growth of deposits.

Harsh, Analyst, JPMorgan: Got it. I’m just trying to reconcile then the LDR guidance then from 98 it probably just moves still remains above 95 if that’s the math. So I was unable to reconcile that statement of early 90s LDR with just let’s say 10% deposit growth and 10%, eleven % deposit growth and similar loan growth?

Lal: The LDR situation has been staying, the LDR ratio has stayed at 92%, ninety three % all the way until around November, right? And it’s gone up to 78%. And basically, that is on the back of Bank Mandirri strategically releasing a very high cost of deposits, you know, coming from certain corporate. So the focus is basically everything relates to how successful can we be in 2025 when it comes to generating the cheap casa coming from transactions, both the savings and the SME deposits? So the idea for 2025 is focusing the liability franchise.

And hopefully, we can basically end the year with lower LDR, less reliance to high end costly deposits, as we hope to see a much higher or at least higher, you know, SME deposits or SME demand deposits and semi deposits or cheaper corporate transactional deposits in order to basically fund our growth on the loan side of the equation.

Chris, Head of Investments, Bank of Mander: Great.

Lal: So the so the concept the concept of reducing reliance of high cost of the high, cost of deposits is an active strategy that is being managed and being planned by the management for 2025. That’s in our budget.

Harsh, Analyst, JPMorgan: Great. Thanks a lot.

Lal: Thank you. Thank you, Harsh, from JPMorgan And thank you to all speakers. We end the call now and happy to take questions. Please send us email if you have further questions and we’ll reply through emails as soon as we can. Thank you very much and good morning.

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