Earnings call transcript: Open Lending reports Q3 2025 revenue growth

Open Lending Corp (LPRO) reported its financial results for Q3 2025, revealing a 3% year-over-year increase in total revenue to $24.2 million. Despite this growth, the company faced a net loss of $7.6 million, contrasting with a net income of $1.4 million in the same quarter last year. The company’s stock, however, dropped by 8.52% in after-hours trading, closing at $1.76, as investors reacted to the earnings announcement and future guidance.

Key Takeaways

• Total revenue increased by 3% year-over-year to $24.2 million.
• The company launched a new platform, Apex One Auto, targeting a $500 million market opportunity.
• Stock price fell by 8.52% in after-hours trading following the earnings release.
• Net loss of $7.6 million compared to a $1.4 million net income in Q3 2024.
• Certified loans decreased by 13% year-over-year.

Company Performance

Open Lending’s performance in Q3 2025 showed mixed results. While the company achieved a 3% increase in total revenue, the number of certified loans dropped by 13% year-over-year. The launch of the Apex One Auto platform marks a strategic move to capture a substantial market opportunity, potentially generating $30-$40 million at a 50% customer adoption rate. The company’s focus on reducing credit exposure and enhancing operational efficiency is evident, but the net loss indicates challenges in maintaining profitability.

Financial Highlights

• Total Revenue: $24.2 million, up 3% year-over-year.
• Program Fee Revenues: $13.3 million.
• Profit-Share Revenues: $8.5 million.
• Adjusted EBITDA: $5.6 million, a 24.4% increase year-over-year.
• Net Loss: $7.6 million, compared to a net income of $1.4 million in Q3 2024.
• Cash Position: $222.1 million in unrestricted cash.

Market Reaction

Following the earnings announcement, Open Lending’s stock fell by 8.52% in after-hours trading, closing at $1.76. This decline reflects investor concerns over the company’s ability to return to profitability amid a net loss and reduced certified loans. The stock’s current price is significantly below its 52-week high of $6.855, indicating potential investor caution.

Outlook & Guidance

Looking ahead, Open Lending projects a certified loans volume of 21,500 to 23,500 for Q4 2025. The company anticipates renewed growth in 2026, supported by its strategic initiatives, including the Apex One Auto platform and an amended reseller agreement with Allied Solutions, expected to yield $2.5 million in annual cost savings.

Executive Commentary

CEO Jessica Boss stated, "We believe we are well positioned for renewed growth in 2026," highlighting the company’s strategic focus on innovation and market expansion. CFO Massimo Monaco emphasized cost control, saying, "One of my priorities moving forward will be to closely monitor and control operating expenses."

Risks and Challenges

• Decline in certified loans: A 13% year-over-year decrease poses a challenge to revenue growth.
• Profitability concerns: Transitioning from a net income to a net loss raises questions about financial stability.
• Market conditions: The K-shaped economy and vulnerabilities in near and non-prime borrowers could impact loan performance.
• Competition: Strengthening underwriting standards and focusing on higher-quality loans are essential to maintaining a competitive edge.
• Economic environment: Broader economic pressures, including interest rate fluctuations, may affect refinancing volumes and loan demand.

Full transcript - Open Lending Corp (LPRO) Q3 2025:

Massimo Monaco, CFO, Open Lending: Today, everyone, and welcome to the Open Lending Q3 2025 earnings conference call. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. You will have the opportunity to ask questions during the question-and-answer session. You may register to ask questions by pressing the Star and 1 on your telephone keypad. You may withdraw your question from the queue by pressing Star 2. Please note this call is being recorded, and I will be standing by should you need any assistance. It is now my pleasure to turn the conference over to Ryan Gardella, Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

Ryan Gardella, Investor Relations, Open Lending: Thank you. I appreciate you joining us. Prior to the start of this call, the company posted their Q3 2025 earnings release and supplemental slides to its Investor Relations website. In the release, you will find reconciliations of non-GAAP financial measures to the most comparable GAAP financial measures discussed on this call. Before we begin, I would like to remind you that this call may contain estimates or other forward-looking statements that represent the company’s view as of today, November 6, 2025. Open Lending disclaims any obligation to update these statements to reflect future events or circumstances. Please refer to today’s earnings release and our filings with the SEC for more information concerning factors that could cause actual results to differ from those expressed or implied in such statements.

I will pass the call over to Jessica to give an update on the business and financial results for Q3 2025.

Jessica Boss, CEO, Open Lending: Thank you. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us today. We are pleased to announce our results for the Q3 of 2025, which we believe reflects the transition we are making from a company stabilizing their business to what I would consider the new norm of running and operating Open Lending. When I assumed the role of CEO, two of my key objectives were to promote earnings stability and to guide the company towards predictable results for our shareholders. We have sought to achieve these objectives by fostering less volatile profit-share unit economics and more segmented and sophisticated pricing changes. We have executed on both of these objectives with positive outcomes, as I will discuss today.

In addition to the work we have done on our core Lenders’ Protection Platform, we have recognized the need to diversify Open Lending’s current offering to meet the evolving needs of our lender customers. Based on customer feedback, our first new product initiative was to deliver a pricing, underwriting, and decisioning tool for our lender customers to use for their prime auto borrowers. Therefore, we are excited to announce the introduction of Apex One Auto, our new prime credit automated decisioning platform. Apex One Auto not only diversifies Open Lending’s revenue by product but also adds a recurring revenue stream driven by subscription-based minimum application volumes. Apex One Auto will address the approximately $500 million per year opportunity to serve segments of the automotive credit market that our current decisioning engine does not.

Built on our core LPP offering, Apex One Auto extends our analytics into the prime auto lending segment. A strategic expansion that addresses the industry’s shift towards higher-rated credit, where our customers and their borrowers demand faster, more efficient, and more accurate loan decisioning and pricing. Over the years, we have received strong interest from our customers for a product addressing the prime auto loan segment. To date, we’ve already launched with two customers with additional interest in the pipeline. There is strong applicability within our existing client base as the industry gravitates towards comprehensive solutions for the entire credit spectrum. Unlike our traditional LPP offering, Apex One Auto decision loans are priced and placed without the insurance wrapper or profit-sharing components, focusing purely on an automated advanced decisioning process that many financial institutions aren’t equipped to handle internally.

It is also worth noting that Apex One Auto and LPP are complementary products, with loans not approved in Apex One Auto being seamlessly directed to LPP for review. As a result, we believe the use of Apex One Auto by our customers may result in additional revenue from our core Lenders’ Protection Platform over time. We believe Apex One Auto is a logical expansion of our brand, helping to protect ourselves from competitive intrusion while also giving financial institutions one vendor to provide them with decisioning support over the entire auto credit spectrum, which we anticipate will help us with customer retention. From an expense and investment perspective, Apex One Auto was developed internally, and no large outside capital investments have been made. Apex One Auto gives Open Lending a new revenue opportunity that utilizes our existing expertise and in the future may contribute positively to our growth.

We will continue to update our investors on our progress. While we recognize it is still early days as we begin the rollout of Apex One Auto with our current LPP customers, we are committed to the future of Open Lending, and we are here to stay. Now, I wanted to talk through our ongoing efforts to improve profitability and produce less volatile profit-share unit economics in our core Lenders’ Protection Platform. We are proud to say that we have delivered three consecutive quarters of positive Adjusted EBITDA and reduced volatility in backbook performance, including a positive CIE adjustment of $1.1 million. Further, we continue to apply conservative profit-share unit economics to our current period originations, which we believe enhances the quality and sustainability of our earnings. Q3 results also benefited from an 8% year-over-year increase in program fee unit economics, reflecting a more favorable mix of lenders.

We facilitated 23,880 certified loans in the Q3 of 2025, down from 27,435 in the Q3 of 2024. This decrease primarily reflects our deliberate tightening of lending standards and targeted rate adjustments in lower-margin credit segments, particularly within super thin and credit-builder profiles. We believe these tightening and repricing actions have positioned our book for more sustainable profitability in future vintages. Moreover, and just as importantly, we believe we have a higher quality book than we have had in the past, in terms of having more loans with the characteristics that we believe drive profitability. We will continue to monitor and measure our progress to promote our desired outcomes. To that extent, I wanted to highlight three incremental pieces of data from our earnings supplement that I think deserve to be recognized on our call today.

First, our CERT mix by channel for the quarter was 89.8% through credit union and banks, with the remaining 10.2% coming from OEMs, with a drop in the OEM production primarily driven by our tighter underwriting requirements on lower credit debt files. As we have flagged in the past, we expect OEM3 to perform more like a credit union, and we are now seeing them begin to steadily ramp up volume on our platform. There may be a dynamic of steadily or slightly increasing OEM share due to this ramping up. We expect these loans, however, to have similar loss ratio performance to those of our credit union customers and believe these loans will contribute positively to the overall quality of our book. Additionally, across the credit union landscape, we have seen financial health continue to improve with another quarter of strong credit union share growth.

While we’re mindful of ongoing challenges such as rising delinquencies, affordability pressures, and moderating wage growth, these dynamics also create opportunities, and we’re taking a proactive approach to capture them. Second, while flat compared to the Q2 of 2025, we are continuing to see refinance volumes recover and believe that this could be a positive tailwind for CERT volume in 2026. Third, we’re dedicated to continuously enhancing and validating our disciplined underwriting standards. Our current credit builder exposure has been reduced, and super thin files now comprise a negligible amount of new originations. For the most recent quarter, our credit debt concentration in super thin and credit builder loans was 6%, down from 24% in the Q3 of 2024. On the pricing and predictive modeling front, we’ve partnered with a leading third-party expert to execute a series of one-time efforts aimed at reconfiguring and strengthening our pricing models.

However, on the whole, this is not a one-time event. This will be regularly fine-tuning our pricing models with new data and new variables that reflect current and anticipated changes to macroeconomic conditions to stay ahead of the curve. This is a muscle memory that we will look to continue to build, given our desire to be a best-in-class pricing and risk decisioner in the auto space. As further evidence of our commitment to making tough decisions and investing in the right places, we’ve also engaged with a third party to help our lender partners improve their performance with repossessions. We believe the servicing of claims is one of the driving factors of performance and severity once a loss occurs. Next, I wanted to walk through our progress on driving customer retention with enhanced service and technology.

We’ve now rolled out the first phase of our lender profitability dashboards to customers, which have been well received thus far. These dashboards provide real-time data on the full lifecycle value of our Lenders’ Protection Platform, ensuring that customers see tangible value in our products before defaults start to happen. Since rollout, we have received early positive feedback from customers. I also wanted to mention that in the quarter, we added 10 new logos and had no customers cancel, which we believe is a testament to the changes we have made to improve customer retention. In the Q3, we also hosted our 12th annual Executive Lending Roundtable with 264 attendees, including credit union and bank partners. This was a fantastic and successful event that gave us an opportunity to hear directly from our customers and solicit feedback and ideas to help us increase the value of our products and relationships.

We’re thrilled to have had the opportunity to connect with our customers and are grateful they dedicated the time to identify and execute on the action items that we jointly feel are necessary to enable more opportunities to grow and to be better partners. Our industry has always been a relationship business, and there is no better return we get than on strengthening these relationships to ensure we continue to add value for our customers, their customers, and our joint mission. We hold this event annually and look forward to next year’s event. In addition, I’m pleased to announce the amendment to our reseller agreement with Allied Solutions, which has been a strong and loyal partner to Open Lending for over 12 years. This revised agreement demonstrates the strengthening of our partnership with Allied and their belief in our product.

Allied has been instrumental to our growth since the early days of Open Lending. This updated agreement builds upon our original partnership, which has enabled us to expand our reach within the credit union ecosystem through Allied’s valuable introductions and endorsements. Recognizing the evolution of our business, we’ve thoughtfully realigned the terms to better support mutual incentives and long-term sustainability, ensuring both parties are positioned for continued success. The new terms align very well with the behaviors and outcomes we are trying to build into our culture to retain and grow both current customers and new logos. This amendment also brings us future cost savings, which Massimo will speak more about shortly. We’ve also made continued progress on reducing costs and improving the accountability of our employee base.

We continue to execute towards our committed operating expense reductions and now have a clear line of sight to achieving our cost-saving goals. On the talent front, we continue to focus on retaining and attracting top talent to further our mission. We’re actively looking to bolster our team in certain areas where we feel there is room for improvement, including actively recruiting for a new Chief Revenue or Growth Officer. We also look forward to a refresh to our go-to-market strategy once we have identified and appointed a new Chief Revenue Officer. We are also pleased to announce Ben Massie, who has been with us since 2022 and our Assistant General Counsel since January 2024, has been named General Counsel and Corporate Secretary effective November 7. Lastly, I would like to formally introduce and welcome Massimo Monaco, our newly appointed CFO, to his first Open Lending earnings call.

Mass has been with us for just over two months, and he has already made a tremendous impact on the organization in many areas. Before I pass it over to Mass to review the numbers, I wanted to address some of the macroeconomic movements we have all observed in data recently. We have seen a lot of headlines about the K-shaped economy highlighting vulnerabilities in near and non-prime borrowers. As of mid-October, over 6% of below-prime auto loans in the industry were over 60 days delinquent, which is the highest currently on record. However, as you all know, we have been strengthening our book and tightening our credit box for over eight months already. We believe we have taken steps to account for the conditions that are affecting others in our market segment right now.

Which we believe is why we have seen minimal impact to our profit-share revenue in Q3 from the current credit environment on our prior vintages. As I mentioned earlier, we are constantly adding new information to our pricing and decisioning models to ensure we are ahead of the curve. Right now, we believe our changes starting in the Q1 of 2025 have positioned us well. The bottom line is that there is a lot of good news and insights within what appears to be another consistent quarter. Now, I’d like to pass the call over to Mass for a more detailed review of the numbers. Thanks, Jessica. I’m pleased to join you all on my first earnings call as Open Lending’s CFO. As Jessica mentioned, I joined in August after more than two decades in financial leadership roles across the residential mortgage and financial services industry.

I’m excited to bring that experience to Open Lending as we continue to strengthen our financial discipline and pursuing our growth strategy. It’s a privilege to be part of such a talented team, and I look forward to connecting more with our investors and analysts soon. After spending a few months in the seat, I firmly believe that Open Lending has a bright future with significant potential and growth opportunities ahead. I look forward to building on the strong foundation already in place, driving renewed growth and value creation to our stakeholders while advancing the company’s mission to serve the underserved. Now, let me walk through the numbers for the quarter and guidance before Jessica and I open up the line for Q&A. During the Q3 of 2025, we facilitated 23,880 certified loans compared to 27,435 certified loans in the Q3 of 2024.

Total certified loan volumes reflect typical seasonal patterns and our strategic tightening of underwriting standards aimed at building a higher-quality loan portfolio. To add on what Jessica mentioned earlier, when we exclude super thin and credit builder certs, our CERT volume for the quarter were up approximately 7% year over year, highlighting continued momentum in our core higher-quality segment. While we anticipate volumes to remain relatively stable through the remainder of 2025 on a seasonally adjusted basis, we believe we are well positioned for renewed growth in 2026 with improved underwriting and pricing actions. Our credit union and bank channel loans typically have higher program fees compared to our OEM loans, which leads to more favorable economics.

Total revenue for the Q3 of 2025 was $24.2 million, up 3% from the prior year period and includes a positive $1.1 million change in estimate profit-share revenue associated with historical vintages compared to a $7 million reduction during the prior year quarter. To break down total revenue in the Q3 of 2025, program fee revenues were $13.3 million, profit-share revenues were $8.5 million, and claims administration fees and other revenues were $2.4 million. As a reminder, profit-share revenue comprises the expected earned premiums less the expected claims to be paid over the life of the contracts and less expenses attributable to the program. The net profit share to Open Lending is 72%. When cash constraints previously received is in excess of the expected profit-share revenue, the amount of excess funds and the projected future losses are recorded as an excess profit-share receipt liability.

Profit-share revenue in the Q3 of 2025 associated with new originations was $7.4 million, or $310 per certified loan, as compared to $13.8 million, or $502 per certified loan in the Q3 of 2024. As Jessica mentioned previously, one of the steps we’ve taken to reduce future volatility in profit-share revenue related to the change in estimate is to book more conservative unit economics at the time of originations. At these levels, the unit economics equates to a 72.5% loss ratio. With the pricing actions now in place, we expect newer vintages to ultimately perform closer to a mid-60s loss ratio. We plan to continue booking at conservative unit economics going forward. Additionally, we do not anticipate recording future positive change in estimates to these newer vintages until the vintages are more seasoned.

As Jessica mentioned, in the Q3, we amended our contract with Allied, which we anticipate will generate over $2.5 million in annual cost savings once the changes are fully implemented in 2027. As part of this contract amendment, we’ve made a one-time payment to Allied of $11 million, which will generate ROI by eliminating a portion of future commission fees from businesses that are referred to us by Allied. This evolution to our relationship with Allied reinforces our mutual commitment, extending the term through 2029 and underscoring our commitment to prudent partner management. We believe this will contribute positively to our financial outlook. Overall, this revised agreement positions Open Lending for sustained growth while supporting valued partners like Allied. Operating expenses were $26.6 million in the Q3 of 2025 compared to $15.5 million in the Q3 of 2024, representing an increase of 71% year over year.

Excluding the aforementioned one-time payment to Allied of $11 million, operating expenses were relatively flat through the Q3 of 2024. One of my priorities moving forward will be to closely monitor and control operating expenses and find deficiencies in our spending. The reduction the team already made will have a full financial benefit in 2026. Net losses for the Q3 of 2025 was $7.6 million compared to net income of $1.4 million in the Q3 of 2024. Diluted net loss per share was $0.06 in the Q3 of 2025 as compared to a net income per share of $0.01 in the Q3 of 2024. Adjusted EBITDA for the Q3 of 2025 was $5.6 million as compared to $4.5 million in the Q3 of 2024. Our Q3 2025 adjusted EBITDA excludes the one-time payment of $11 million made in connection to the amendment to the reseller agreement with Allied.

We exited the Q3 with $287.7 million in total assets, of which $222.1 million was in unrestricted cash. We had $214.8 million in total liabilities, of which $134.4 million was in outstanding debt. Moving on to our capital allocation priorities, we have $21 million remaining on our share repurchase program, which expires in May of 2026. Our intent is to utilize our balance sheet to invest in our organic business in a controlled and measured manner to fuel profitable growth. Further, the cash interest expense on our debt continues to be about equal to the amount of interest income being generated on our cash and cash equivalents on a quarterly basis. We remain in compliance with all of our covenants under our credit agreement and expect to remain in compliance based on our projected performance. Finally, I wanted to address our guidance.

For the Q4, we are expecting total certified loans to be between 21,500 and 23,500. With that, I will open it up for questions. Operator. Thank you. At this time, if you would like to ask a question, please press the star and one on your telephone keypad. You may withdraw your question at any time by pressing star two. Once again, to ask a question, please press the star and one on your telephone keypad. I will take our first question from Peter Heckman with DA Davidson. Please go ahead. Your line is open. Hey, good afternoon, everyone. Thanks for taking the question. It’s good to hear about Apex One Auto, the new credit decisioning tool. Jessica, I think you mentioned it was going to be on a subscription basis, but I think you said something about some volume component.

Can you talk a little bit more about how that might work, how much of the payment might be fixed versus a volume-based? Yeah. Nice to hear from you, Peter. Thank you for the question today. Yeah, Apex One Auto will be a completely subscription-based product. We’re looking to do three-year contracts, which will have monthly minimums, and then any overage per loan will be charged. That is over the minimum amount. It will equate to a per-loan fee. None of it will be variable, meaning that we will have a minimum. The only variable amount would be if there was an overage. Anything that is—and I think I mentioned this during the script—anything that is not then decisioned in Apex One would be eligible to go into the LP product, so they would be complementary to each other.

Anything related strictly to Apex One would be with a non-insurance wrapper and would not be subject to any change in the revenue once booked. It would be on the subscription basis. Okay. That makes sense. That makes sense. Mass, just to follow up on the Allied. Change in terms, I think you said. You would approximate about a $2.5 million annual savings. Did you say that that was going to start phasing in next year, or it was just going to be for the full year 2027? A small amount we expect to phase in in 2026, the second half of 2026, but the lion’s share of it will be realized in 2027. Peter, it will have applicability then. Sort of going forward in perpetuity, right? It’ll have a benefit. Right. It’s an ongoing benefit. Yes. Correct. All right. Thank you.

I’ll get back in the queue. Thank you. Our next question comes from Joseph Dofi with Canaccord. Please go ahead. Your line is open. Hey, this is Will Johnson. I’m for Joe. Thanks for taking my question. Maybe just one. Kind of high level on the macro environment. Just curious kind of any more color you can share on when you think things could kind of stabilize and trends you’re seeing in the Mannheim Index and just any thoughts on conversations with customers. Thanks. Yeah. As we’ve sort of weaved through our script, we feel like 2025 was a transition year. There was lots of tightening and changes we needed to make to our pricing models that we felt and we do feel have proven to put us in a much better and less volatile financial position. We feel like we’re very well positioned for certain growth in 2026.

There’s a few things we can point to. We obviously aren’t giving guidance into 2026. We’re seeing a lot more flow coming in from the refi channel. We believe OEM is starting to build some very positive momentum now live in 32 states with a few of their larger states coming live towards the end of the year. We are bringing in a new CRO, which we believe will also bring more of a strategic lens to how we approach our credit union. Of course, we are seeing an improvement in retention of our credit unions. If you were to actually look at year over year, our CERT growth or our CERT volume, excluding credit builders and super thins, which is where we took most of our underwriting action, our CERT growth is actually up 7% year over year.

I think that gives us a good starting pad as we move into 2026. Thanks. Thank you. Once again, that is star and one on your telephone keypad if you would like to join the queue. We will move next with John Davis with Raymond James. Please go ahead. Your line is open. Hey, this is Taylor on for JD. Thanks for taking the question. Maybe just to start on the fourth quarter certified loan assumptions. It looks like CERTs are supposed to be down about 14% year over year at the midpoint. Just curious what you’re expecting from a refi versus purchase volume perspective, and then also the contribution expected from your FIs, credit unions, and OEMs. Thanks. Yeah. Seasonality, fourth quarter is one of our lowest CERT volume quarters. We did take that into consideration.

We will still have some of the impact of the OEM strengthening that we put into place as that works through its full year effect. There could be some uplift from refi. We are doing three different things right now to become more refi-ready at working with active refi partners and our current credit union base, whether we see that uplift in the fourth quarter or we see that more going into 2026. Of course, there is still some uncertainty as to when we will get some of the full benefits from OEM 3. I do not know. About 90% of our business is coming from the CU and the bank. We would expect that to stabilize as we move into the fourth quarter and into 2026.

I think kind of our goal with, I’ll say, OEM 1 and 2 is that that volume will remain below 10% of our overall CERT volume. I don’t know, Matt, if you have anything else to add to that. No, I agree. And we’re comfortable with that OEM 3 or OEMs 1 and 2 at less than 10% of our volume or around 10%. They could still grow as we grow the overall portfolio. The OEMs 1 and 2 could grow along with it. The mix has been our focus. Got it. Makes sense. Maybe just one more on Apex One. It’s obviously very early days with two customers launched, but just curious longer term what you’re expecting from an uptake perspective and then a growth contribution perspective as well. And then.

Does this make sense for all of your lenders to use or just a certain subset? Just love to hear some detail on that. Thanks. Sure. We’d love to share. We’re very excited about its launch and a product that we’ve been working on for the last couple of years as we’ve gotten feedback from our credit unions. Again, really wanted to diversify into the full credit spectrum. If we sort of look at the credit unions we do business with today, we estimate that about 25% of the apps that we see are the subprime apps. If we were able to capture what is required by Apex One, sort of a look at all the applications, and we were to get about a 50% adoption rate, we’re looking at revenues somewhere between $30 million and $40 million, which we consider to be significant.

Again, early days, and that will take time as we start to sign credit unions up. We have seen a lot of interest from our credit union clients. There has been sort of the flight to quality on paper as the macroeconomic environment is what it is. This also, I think, protects us from being more resilient to different market cycles. We are excited about this product for many different reasons. We also think it has applicability outside of our credit union customers, right? There are other institutions, financial institutions that are interested in getting into and learning about and participating in auto decisioning that do not have those tools that we may be able to partner with. Got it. Very helpful. Thank you. Thank you.

Once again, that is star and one on your telephone keypad if you would like to join the queue. We’ll pause a moment to allow any further questions to queue. We show no further questions at this time. I will now turn the call over to Chief Executive Officer Jessica Boss for closing remarks. Thanks, everyone, for your participation and support today. The third quarter represented tangible progress against the initiatives I laid out in my first quarter as CEO and believe that Open Lending is now in a stronger position today than it was just six months ago. We believe we are well positioned for growth in 2026, and I look forward to updating you on our next call. Thank you. Thank you. This does conclude today’s program. Thank you for your participation. You may disconnect at any time.

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