Earnings call transcript: Vandel Group reports strong growth in FY2024

Published 27/02/2025, 12:22
 Earnings call transcript: Vandel Group reports strong growth in FY2024

Vandel Group (VDL) reported robust financial results for the fiscal year 2024, showcasing significant growth in sales and net income. The company achieved a 13% year-over-year increase in sales, reaching €8.64 billion, alongside a doubling of net income to €294 million compared to the previous year. Trading at €101.82, InvestingPro analysis suggests the stock is currently undervalued, with a P/E ratio of 8.57. This strong performance was complemented by strategic acquisitions and a focus on portfolio rotation, positioning the company for continued growth.

Key Takeaways

  • Vandel Group’s sales increased by 13% year-over-year, reaching €8.64 billion.
  • Net income doubled from the previous year, totaling €294 million.
  • The company proposed a dividend of €4.7 per share, up 17.5% from last year.
  • Strategic acquisitions, including Munro Capital, bolster future growth prospects.
  • Bureau Veritas, a key asset, expects mid to high single-digit organic revenue growth in 2025.

Company Performance

Vandel Group demonstrated strong financial performance in fiscal year 2024, marked by a 13% rise in sales and a doubling of net income. The company’s strategic focus on acquisitions and portfolio rotation has paid off, with significant contributions from the IK Partners transaction and the acquisition of Munro Capital. The group’s assets under management reached €41 billion, with a balanced economic exposure across Europe, the US, and the rest of the world.

Financial Highlights

  • Sales: €8.64 billion (+13% YoY)
  • Net asset from operations: €754 million (+6% YoY)
  • Net income group share: €294 million (2x 2023 figure)
  • Fully diluted net asset value per share: €185.7 (+16.9% YoY)
  • Proposed dividend: €4.7 per share (+17.5% YoY)

Outlook & Guidance

Looking ahead, Vandel Group anticipates continued growth in its asset management platform and plans to focus on organic growth and mergers and acquisitions in principal investments. With an overall Financial Health Score of "GOOD" according to InvestingPro analysis, the company expects an increased dividend in 2025, driven by full-year contributions from recent acquisitions. Bureau Veritas, a significant asset within the group, forecasts mid to high single-digit organic revenue growth in 2025. Detailed analysis of Vandel Group’s growth potential and comprehensive valuation metrics are available in the exclusive Pro Research Report, part of the extensive coverage of 1,400+ top stocks on InvestingPro.

Executive Commentary

Laurent Nino, Group CEO, emphasized the transformational nature of 2024 for Vandel and its shareholders, highlighting the company’s commitment to creating and increasing value for shareholders. "The only antidote remedy to discount is performance," Nino stated, reinforcing the group’s focus on delivering strong results.

Risks and Challenges

  • Challenging conditions in the automotive and luxury goods sectors could impact performance.
  • Potential regulatory changes, particularly in the US, regarding carrying interest tax.
  • Market volatility and economic uncertainties may affect asset valuations and investor sentiment.

Vandel Group’s strategic initiatives and strong financial performance in FY2024 position the company well for future growth, despite potential challenges in certain market sectors.

Full transcript - (MF) Q4 2024:

Conference Operator: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to Vendors’ Full Year twenty twenty four Results Conference Call and Webcast. At this time, all participants are in a listen only mode. There will be a presentation followed by a question and answer session. If you wish to ask a question, you will need to press 11 on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced.

You can also ask your questions on the webcast. Olivia Allot (NASDAQ:ALLT), Director of Financial Communication and Data Intelligence will read them. I must advise you that this conference is being recorded today. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Laurent Nino, Wendell’s Group CEO.

Please go ahead, sir.

Laurent Nino, Group CEO, Vandel Group: Thank you very much for this introduction. Good morning to everybody. Happy to have you on this call for the full year result 2024 of Vandel. I’m here with David Darmont and Benoit Drieault. We will make the presentation, all three of us.

And then we will be, as always, available to answer your question. Also in the room, we have Aubrey Gerlaud, our Investor Relations Officer and Jerome Michels in order to answer to your questions if any needs. So let’s start. I think the last year financial was a real achievement as our dual model is starting to deliver the growth we expected. Our fully diluted net asset value per share has reached EUR 185.7 per share, which represents, if you take into account the dividend that was paid in 2024, a 16.9% year over year value creation.

Our principal investment activity contributed to EUR 21.1 per share, and we will see that more in detail later on, thanks in large part to the strong stock performance of Bureau Veritas. But also our new asset management activity contributed for the first time to EUR 6 per share, thanks to the above expectation of fee related earnings generation and the strong growth of the AUM, 24% growth. As a result, we will propose a EUR 4.7 per share dividend, up 17.5% compared to last year. And as announced in our strategic roadmap, this dividend level takes into account the first partial integration of the asset management activity into Netheril in 2024. Keep in mind that this is just the beginning and it will mechanically be higher in 2025, thanks to the consolidation of full year OIK and Munro Capital.

And Munro, we expect to close transaction in Q1 this year. So let’s go to the next slide. And I think as you see, we’ve took some major steps to create a long term value in 2024, both on principal investment and asset management. Regarding principal investment, well, Bureau Veritas delivered strong results on the back of the quality of its LEAP ’28 strategic plan, and this has been reflected in the performance of the share price, which has gone up 28% during the year. Our understood asset, and we’ll come back in more detail on that, pursue their M and A activities to improve their medium long term value creation profile.

David will come back more in detail on that. As an investor, we’ve been very active in term of portfolio rotation during the year with EUR 2,300,000,000.0 of disposal and value creation or crystallization and the acquisition, as you know, on the other side of Globally Cage to further improve our portfolio growth profile. And we strongly believe that Globally Cage will bring a lot to us in the future. On the asset management side, 2024 has been a transformational year for Vadel and its shareholders. First, obviously, we had the closing of the IK transaction, which was initiated in 2023, but really started as a and contribute to Vadel in this year.

And it has been a very good start because the value of IK NowNav has increased very significantly this year on the back of the fantastic growth it delivered above the estimate allowance in 2023. We continue to build our asset management platform, which we think will be a strong value creator in the future and with strong growth and level of dividend to be distributed. With the announcement of the acquisition of a new vertical in the private credit, Munro Capital, will be we expect to close the transaction in, as I said, Q1. It will give our platform a critical mass and increase our exposure to The U. S.

Economy. These are really great achievements that improve bundled growth profile, increase our cash flow generation and thus will increase our dividend payout to our shareholders. They are key to deliver, we think, stronger return to shareholders. And as I mentioned, it’s just the beginning. Now if you look to the transformation over the last two years, you see that today, Van der Group managed altogether EUR 41,000,000,000 of assets, EUR 41,000,000,000 pro form a, obviously, of the acquisition of Munro, which is made of EUR 7,400,000,000.0 in the principal investment, excluding cash and EUR $33,400,000,000 of assets managed for third party in Europe and in The USA.

Keep in mind that two years ago, we had only principal investment. So this is really a big pinching. At the end of the day, it of course gives Vazell a much more value creative and cash generative model, but it’s also very interesting to note that our economic exposure today is made of three third, one third in Europe, 1 Third in The U. S. And one third in the rest of the world.

Now let’s go because I think it’s important that we understand well the drivers of the value creation in 2024. So we’ve created EUR 27.4 per share in value during the year, which is, as I mentioned, 16.9% compared to the start of the year. This impressive growth is explained first by the strong growth of the listed assets by 29%, mainly due to better Revita share price growth. It’s interesting to note that we sold in EUR 24,000,000,000 of derivative shares, but thanks to the growth of its share price, its total value in our NAV is almost the same at the end of twenty twenty three. And on the other hand, our unlisted asset value on a like for like basis, like so without including global decades, which just came into the year, went down 7%.

CPI, but we’ll go back in more detail to that and I will hand over to David for that. CPI had a very positive performance over the year. But Stahl, ACAMS and mainly Skalyon suffered of all from more difficult market condition and volatile multiples. Our asset management GP value is strongly up by EUR 6 per share in light of the very good performance of IK Partners during the year 2024. Another element of the value creation or disruption is cost, financial results and other elements.

The impact is only EUR 1 per share down this year, thanks to good control of cost, very positive carry and carry financial carry and the positive impact of the dollar hedging we have put in place at the time of the acquisition of Monroe Capital (NASDAQ:MRCC). In 2024, we bought back EUR 92,500,000.0 of shares in of shares and that has created some value by through accretion by our buyback and that represents EUR 1.4 per share of value accretion. So all of that leads to EUR 0.274 per share, which includes EUR 4 of dividend and EUR 23.4 of the fully diluted NAV increase on the year. Now I pass over to David, who will go into the detail of the principal investment performance, and I will take back the lead to discuss about the asset management. David?

David Darmont, Executive, Vandel Group: Thank you very much, Laurent, and good morning, everyone. I am now on Slide eight, where we’re going to give you more details on the value creation on the principal investments. You can see that over the year 2024, there was a plus 12.8% value creation from the principal investments. The value creation comes mainly from Bureau Veritas, as Laurent mentioned. It delivered an outstanding twenty twenty four vintage, both from an operational point of view and on the stock market performance.

Regarding the unlisted assets, the overall contribution to value creation was negative in 2024 with mixed performances. CPI performed very well and contributed very positively. And so positively that CPI actually paid a EUR 93,000,000 dividend to Vandell early twenty twenty four. Regarding Stiles, Canyon and ECCAMPS, the contribution was negative over the course of the year as a reflection of those assets’ performances and the multiples of the peers And those offset the good performance from CPI, as Laura mentioned. Regarding STAHL, we value the company pro form a of the sale of its wet end division, which has reduced EBITDA in absolute value without the full impact of the multiple rerating we expect from this strategic refocus.

We strongly believe that the new style that was presented during the Investor Day has now become a very attractive asset. I am now moving to Slide nine, where you can see that the principal investment NAV was up EUR 21.1 led by the listed asset growth. As already mentioned, Bureau Veritas delivered an outstanding performance in 2024. The sales were up 6.4%, including a 10.2% organic growth. The profits were up 7.1% and the margin are up 11 basis points year over year.

Bureau Veritas expects to deliver for the full year 2025 mid to high single digit organic revenue growth and will show an improvement in adjusted operating margin at constant exchange rates. And also, the company announced a strong cash flow with cash conversion above 90%. We are very confident in the prospect of Bureau Veritas and we have been very involved in supporting the company in the definition of its LEAP ’28 strategic plans, which we fully support. Regarding TAKET, as of 12/31/2024, it is valued according to its twenty days average share price end of twenty twenty four, which was As you saw, TAKET Participacion, TAKET controlling shareholder, announced its intention to file an offer followed by a squeeze out on the Target (NYSE:TGT) shares with an offer price of EUR 16 per share, which is a fair vision of Target value and thus we will use this price in our Q1 twenty twenty five NAV. I am now moving to Slide 10, where you can see company by company, the price companies I mean, the performance over the year.

Regarding STAAR, keep in mind that these figures are still including the wet end division sales and EBITDA. On a NAV valuation standpoint, as I already mentioned, we did exclude the wet end. The positive sales growth despite market challenge that we saw in the automotive and luxury goods proved the resilience of the STAHL business model. The EBITDA margin remains pretty strong at 22.2%, demonstrating a very effective cost control. 2024 was a transformation year for STAHL.

It did become over the year a pure play specialty coatings for Muleton and a radical change in its equity story. The sale of the wet and leather chemicals division aligns with the strategic shift and it’s very worse on facing this transformational move. The pro form a financials shows a stronger growth profile and an improved margin, which now stands at 23.7%. Regarding CPI, 2024 was another year of very strong performance with revenue growth up plus 8.5% and EBITDA up 7.8%. The company did maintain a high EBITDA margin at 49.3% despite international expansion investments and some significant IT investments as well.

Over Christmas, the company actually closed its first acquisition under Van der’s ownership, a small Norwegian leader in behavior intervention and training. Regarding ACAMS, twenty twenty four had stable sales despite a very strong transformation in the company. The EBITDA margin went up 70 basis points, showing an effective cost management. 2024 was also a pivotal year for the company, a year of transformation under our new leadership and with some key investments in technology driven growth. Regarding Scallion, you can see that the sales declined by 1.2%, reflecting a broader market slowdown, especially in the automotive in Europe and in the aeronautics.

The EBITDA margin dropped by 60 basis points, mainly due to a lower utilization rate, and the market slowdown was partially offset by a strict SG and A control. The company had two acquisitions in 2024. One was Doolin in Spain and the other one was ManorNo in Canada. Some very strategic and attractive targets, one in cybersecurity and the other one in high end drone engineering software IT. So 2024 was a twenty seven year for Canyon as well in a very tough market environment.

We’re working hard with the management to ensure that Cagnon will fully benefit from the up cycle, building on the very strong OT business and an improving IT offering. Last, regarding global decays, you can see that the company enjoys a strong revenue growth, both organically and through M and A. The EBITDA margin remains solid at 23.9%, in line with our expectation. Early twenty twenty five, Global Decade relied three acquisitions in line with the management plan and the M and A pipeline is still very strong. I hand over back to Mike to Laurent for the rest of the presentation.

Laurent Nino, Group CEO, Vandel Group: Thank you, David. We’re moving to Slide 11 on the specific the IK growth momentum. 2024 was another strong year for IK Partners. First of all, which is, I think, a key element today of the success of IK, the amount of impressive liquidity that has been returned to LPs. EUR 1,600,000,000.0 of proceeds were generated with an average 2.8 times multiple for 11 exits.

So a lot of return and a very good performance of the company that were sold during this period. I think there is not so much fund that have been able to realize that, which is I think at the heart of the success of IK. That has resulted in successful fundraising. On a calendar year 2024, it’s a SEK 3,400,000,000.0 that were raised by IK. It’s a raising season that started late twenty twenty three and will finish during the first half of twenty twenty five.

The target is SEK 6,000,000,000 for this vintage and we’re well underway. We are already currently at EUR 5,200,000,000.0 out of that EUR 6,000,000,000 vintage. So we are very, very confident in the fact that we will reach and all we have in the pipe show that we will reach EUR 6,000,000,000 even potentially a little bit more. You’ve seen also an active and selective deployment over 2024. The teams of IK realized 17 deals for EUR 1,500,000,000.0 of investment.

And it’s also a company that is permanently innovative. IK pursue its growth strategy with new products. We’ve made the first continuation fund. We’ve developed Article eight, SRDR, and we have more ideas to come in order to fuel the growth in 2025. If we move to the assets under management on next page, I think it’s you see the quite impressive development of IK, a very well positioned in the PE market for the mid cap and small cap segment, which we think is a very good segment and where IK is very, very well positioned in Europe.

It has delivered outstanding results. The AUM are up 24 in 2024 from EUR 11,100,000,000.0 to EUR 13,800,000,000.0 from December 2022 to end December twenty four of the period. As I mentioned, EUR 3,400,000,000.0 were raised. And this good momentum in fundraising is successfully in the different is true in all the different strategy, the mid cap, the small cap, the continuation vehicle and the partnership fund, which are all for fundraising very close to the end in mid cap, halfway in the small cap because it started after and the contribution of vehicle is finished, partnership fund is close to be finished. As a result, IK delivered very strong FRE in 2024 with close to EUR 70,000,000 FRE above our initial estimate, which we announced at the time of the acquisition, which was EUR 60,000,000 at that time for the 2024 year.

Okay. Another point is cost and a little bit of a zoom on that. Cash operating costs, net financial result and other items impacted NAV negatively by EUR 1 stands for a very strict cost control and a quite positive carry a financial carry in 2024 plus the positive impact of the aging instrument put in place at the time of the acquisition of Mondra. It has represented, as you see, only EUR 1 per share. Then also we made, as I mentioned, share buyback and the share buyback result in EUR 1,400,000.0 creation per share in 12/31/2024.

Now we move to the ESG. Well, I know that it is less of the spirit of the moment to speak about ESG now, but we’re still very committed to what we’ve done now for the last six years. And we’ve been now six years that we’ve been including the Dojon’s best in class world and Europe in this. We can making it one of the top Vadel is one of the top 10% of companies in terms of sustainability in the diversity diversified by financial category. We have a score, as you see, of 76 out of 100 in this category, which has improved compared to 2023.

In 2024, Vandell defined a new ESG roadmap, and this roadmap include five priorities: governance and business ethics reliability of extra financial formation. We had the first CSRD report that we are doing this year, health and safety, climate change and adaptation and parity. I will hand over to Benoit Rillo to comment on the results of the year.

Benoit Drieault, Financial Executive, Vandel Group: Good morning. In 2024, the sales amount to EUR 8,640,000,000.00, the asset management contributing for the first time this year. This amount is 13% above last year and 8.4% organically, thanks to Bureau Veritas and CPI good performances. The net asset from operation is EUR $754,000,000, 6 percent above last year despite disposal of Constancia Flexible. After the capital gain of on Constancia Flexible, that was EUR $6.92, but CHF $4.20 in group share after the amortization of the goodwill entries.

A depreciation booked by Scallions in the context of the industry slowdown and a depreciation booked by Stal on its Wheaton division that is being sold. The net income group share is EUR $294,000,000, twice the amount of $20.23. In accordance with IFRS, some events are not booked in the P and L. The capital gain on the block of Bureau Veritas shares, that was EUR $784,000,000. The change in fair value of our stake in IHS and the dividend we received from Bureau Veritas and CTI that are fully consolidated.

If we turn to the following page and the financial structure. The LTV ratio at the end of twenty twenty four was 7.2%, including the commitment we have in IK funds. If we take into account the acquisition of Monro, this LTV is 23% above the S and P ceiling for our current trading. We will reduce this LTV with the value creation of the portfolio and the asset rotation. Concerning our liquidity, even after our commitment in IK funds and the acquisition of Monro and the accompanying commitments.

The amount of liquidity is still very large, EUR 1,200,000,000.0, including EUR $875,000,000 of available credit lines. The amount of debt is EUR 2,400,000,000.0, including EUR $750,000,000 of exchangeable bond in Bureau Veritas that will be redeemed in Bureau Veritas shares. The average maturity is EUR 3.6 a year, but if we don’t take into account the exchangeable bonds that will be redeemed in Bureau Veritas shares, it is four point seven years in line with our long term investor profile. And as Laurent just explained, the cost of our debt is lower than the return of the cash in 2024. So we made a net income on the net debt.

David Darmont, Executive, Vandel Group: Okay.

Laurent Nino, Group CEO, Vandel Group: Thank you, Benoit, for this presentation. Just a few words to conclude. We’re very confident that the development of this dual model will continue to create more value and more recurring returns for our shareholders. We will first build the third party asset management platform through the successful integration of Munro Capital, continued development of IK partner as well as the implementation of commercial synergies between the two entities. And we strongly believe it will deliver strong FRE, we will also continue to look for additional verticals.

Principal investment, our investments will continue to deploy transformation plan in our companies to grow them organically, but also through M and A. And I can tell you we are very active with all the company in order to make sure that we take benefit of those great investments. Our ambition is really to leverage our dual model to deliver superior return to our shareholders with strong financial discipline. We are convinced that this strategy, which was initiated two years ago, will deliver an attractive value proposal for our shareholders and investors. And it’s the first year where it start to pay and it will continue.

And in fact, the asset management part is just at the frontier of being included in these numbers and it will really start to be significant next year as you will see. Thank you very much for your time and for your attention. And I think now Benoit, David and I and all the team is are at your disposal to answer any question that you may have. Thank you.

Conference Operator: Thank

Olivier, Investor Relations, Vandel Group: We have a web question. Olivier speaking.

Laurent Nino, Group CEO, Vandel Group: The first

Olivier, Investor Relations, Vandel Group: question, Exor (AS:EXOR) announced the buyback given large discount rates to NAV. Why not make such a smart capital allocation move?

Laurent Nino, Group CEO, Vandel Group: As I’ve always said, we’ve made some buyback last year, which created EUR 1.2, EUR 1 point 3 per share value through accretion. And we’ve always said that we will be opportunistic doing that. I think we’ve created significant value by investing in the asset management business too and we will continue because we think it’s we need to create value for the long term, not only for the short term. So it’s a combination of the different strategy that we are pursuing and share buyback is part of the tool that we are using, but we cannot reduce our strategy to a pure share buyback.

Olivier, Investor Relations, Vandel Group: Thank you. We have another question from the web. The financial press disclosed that Bernd Ulrica could sell MOUVE CHAUFFIN. Could you have a look at it and make a bid? No.

Laurent Nino, Group CEO, Vandel Group: I’m saying no because it’s we’re not interested in any sort of we’ve never had any I mean, we have no competences in the retail and consumer business. So we will not invest into that.

Olivier, Investor Relations, Vandel Group: Thank you. Can you make any additional comments on the discussions between AGS and BIOL Veritas? And do you have in mind order options?

Laurent Nino, Group CEO, Vandel Group: Well, I think most of it was very clearly stated in the communique that was published by Bureau Veritas on January 27. Those discussions between BB and Bureau Veritas and SGS (SIX:SGSN) did not result in an agreement despite PVE’s strong belief in the value of consolidation within this sector. I don’t think we have more to comment despite that. We as Vazell, as we mentioned during the presentation, we strongly support Bureau Veritas Lippert with the LEAP ’28 strategy and supporting its strong ambition of a transformative leap transformative leap in growth on one side and performance and also portfolio reshuffling. So we think it’s the right approach, and we will continue to support the company in doing so.

Olivier, Investor Relations, Vandel Group: Thank you. Are you concerned by some potential changes in carrying interest tax scheme in The U. S. For private equity industry?

Laurent Nino, Group CEO, Vandel Group: We’re not exposed to that. So we don’t I mean, we’re not concerned. So not being concerned is not an issue for us. Will it have some impact on the private equity industry in The U. S?

Potentially in The U. S, we’re exposed for two things by investing on some companies and you know our two good companies, CPI and companies CPI and ACAM. CPI is a very well performing company since we bought it after a slow start during COVID, but now has a great performance. ACAM is really in a transformation to the year 2024 was a very good year in transformation, change in leadership, and we’ve seen that the results are starting to pay now, and we expect to see much more in 2025. I think it was a clear demonstration of that during our Investor Day.

And the other expected closure we have to The U. S. Is in the private asset activity is Monroe Capital through private credit. And we view the fact that Munro as you know that in private credit, the how do you call that the carried interest issues is much smaller than it is in the private equity issue. So we don’t view that as being a significant issue globally for us.

Olivier, Investor Relations, Vandel Group: Thank you. There is still a substantial discount to NAV. How do you explain that? And what are you going to do about it?

Laurent Nino, Group CEO, Vandel Group: Well, I think I said that many times. The only antidote remedy to discount is performance. So the only thing we will do is keep on improving performance of the global assets. This year, performance of our net asset value and including the dividend we paid to our shareholders was 16.9%. It’s one year, so people may claim one year doesn’t make a story.

So let’s do it next year and the year after. And if we deliver that on a sustainable basis, I think then the discount will be reduced. The second element is that we have decided that we should offer to our shareholders a significant return. And we’ve defined a dividend policy that is reflecting the potential of value creation that we’re generating on our asset That is reflecting also the higher cash flow profile that we are creating through the asset management business. Asset management business is a business that generates yield and growth and that’s really what we want.

We want to generate significant dividends going forward and growth. And by doing the two of it, I think we will generate significant value to our shareholders. You’ve seen that the dividend has increased this year, but it will mechanically continue to increase significantly in 2025 just by the addition of the full year of IK plus the fact that Monroe will be part of us and will have generate significant FRE. So we will continue making sure that we’ve got a disciplined work on making sure that we create value on the assets that we’ve invested in and that we distribute significant part of the cash flow we generate through our activities. So yes, I think long term, this is what we’ll pay.

I’m not running for the just the next month’s reduction. I’m looking for long term. Obviously, working on your capital structures through buybacks is also a tool in order to do it, as I mentioned, but it cannot be the only one because it’s just giving just stopping the story. And we have a story that started three twenty years ago and we’re just saying that we can do it for many more years to come. At least David and I think that we’ve been having the confidence of the Board for the next four years.

So we will commit ourselves to make sure that we can generate significant value in the next four years for all our shareholders.

Olivier, Investor Relations, Vandel Group: Thank you. There are no more questions on the web and no questions by phone. So Laurent, it’s time to close the call.

Laurent Nino, Group CEO, Vandel Group: Okay. Well, good. Thank you very much for all of you. What I can tell you is that we’re very committed to creating value. We’re very committed to increasing value for shareholders.

You will see that there will be return. We’re here to make sure that the discount, as you mentioned it was mentioned, will decrease and it will only decrease, thanks to the quality of what we do, quality of the performance of our assets, quality of our the reduction of the how can I call it the fact that we manage all that with the lowest cost possible and the quality of our cash flow profile? And we can be stuck with high growth and high dividend. Thank you very much. And next time we will talk together will be for the first quarter trading update, which is scheduled on sorry, I don’t have the date, but it’s certainly published on our website.

It’s sometime in June. Thank you very much. Have a great day. Thank you.

Conference Operator: This concludes today’s conference call. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.

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