IDT at East Coast IDEAS Conference: Strategic Growth and Shareholder Value

Published 12/06/2025, 22:08
IDT at East Coast IDEAS Conference: Strategic Growth and Shareholder Value

On Thursday, 12 June 2025, IDT Corporation (NYSE:IDT) presented at The 15th Annual East Coast IDEAS Conference, outlining its strategic focus on growth segments like NRS, BOSS Money, and Net2Phone, while managing its traditional communications business. The company emphasized its robust financial position, with a strong cash balance and no debt, which provides flexibility for mergers and acquisitions (M&A) and returning value to shareholders. Despite challenges in the legacy segment, IDT is strategically shifting toward higher-margin businesses to drive profitability.

Key Takeaways

  • IDT’s gross profit margin reached a record 37.1%, with adjusted EBITDA expected to rise to at least $126 million for fiscal 2025.
  • NRS saw a 23% increase in recurring revenue year-over-year, driven by network expansion and increased terminal revenue.
  • BOSS Money reported a 32% increase in digital transaction volume, emphasizing digital growth and cross-selling opportunities.
  • The company is actively exploring M&A opportunities, particularly in high-growth segments, and is open to taking on debt for strategic acquisitions.
  • IDT increased its dividend by 20% last quarter and continues to repurchase stock opportunistically.

Financial Results

  • Gross profit margin increased to 37.1%, up 470 basis points from the previous year.
  • Adjusted EBITDA for the trailing twelve months was $120.4 million, with a projection of at least $126 million for fiscal 2025.
  • Cash, cash equivalents, and current investments totaled $224 million as of April 30, with no debt.

Operational Updates

  • NRS operated 35,600 active terminals in 31,000 stores, adding an average of 440 new terminals per month.
  • BOSS Money operates in 50 countries, with over 80% of transactions originating through digital channels.
  • Net2Phone served 415,000 UCaaS and CCaaS seats, launching an AI agent to enhance customer experiences.

Future Outlook

  • IDT plans to expand NRS into Latin America through acquisitions or joint ventures.
  • Net2Phone is seeking acquisitions to enhance its technology, focusing on AI capabilities.
  • BOSS Money aims to increase scale and achieve cost synergies through acquisitions.

Q&A Highlights

  • IDT is using cash to support BOSS Money’s growth and considering special dividends or increased dividends.
  • The company is exploring M&A to replicate NRS success in other regions, particularly Latin America.
  • An AI agent bot has been developed for deployment in customer care centers, enhancing operational efficiency.

For a detailed review, readers are encouraged to refer to the full transcript below.

Full transcript - The 15th Annual East Coast IDEAS Conference:

Matt Hodges, Host, Three Part Advisors: Good afternoon again, everybody. This is Matt Hodges with Three Part Advisors. For our last but not least presentation in Presentation Room 1 for the ECIC twenty twenty five, we have IDT Corporation. IDT Corporation is a $1,500,000,000 market cap global provider of fintech, cloud communications, and traditional communication solutions. The businesses operate under four segments, national retail, BOSS money, net to phone, and traditional communications.

IDT is a profitable growing company with a solid balance sheet and a shareholder friendly approach to capital allocation. Last quarter, they increased their dividend payout by 20%. The company has also repurchased 16,000,000 worth of shares over the last trailing twelve months. Presenting today are Marcelo Fischer, CFO and Head of Investor Relations, Bill Ulri. Thank you, guys.

Thanks for joining us. Over to you.

Marcelo Fischer, CFO and Head of Investor Relations, IDT Corporation: So good afternoon. Thank you for being here, and thank you for the for the whole IDEAS team for putting together a real nice conference. I’m here with Bill Urie today with IDT’s head of investor relations, and Bill will get started.

Bill Urie, Head of Investor Relations, IDT Corporation: Thank you, Marcelo. Please note that we’ll be discussing our financial and operational results for IDT’s third quarter of fiscal year twenty twenty five, and that’s the three months ended 04/30/2025. So let’s begin with some basics about IDT. We’re an innovative SaaS and fintech services company headquartered across the Hudson in Newark, New Jersey. We’re a small cap company, and as as was mentioned, we have a market cap of 1.5 now, closer to 1,600,000,000.0, an increase of 80% over the past year.

We’re profitable and generate significant cash, some of which we return to investors through our regular quarterly dividend and opportunistically through stock repurchases. With our strong balance sheet, including 224,000,000 in cash and current investments and no debt, we have considerable strategic flexibility. And for those of you who can see this able to look at the slides, you can see here our disbursement of our workforce is truly global in terms of its scope. Our technology sales and marketing teams are in locations around the world. IDT operates six primary businesses, each serving an underserved consumer or b to b market.

In today’s presentation, we will focus on the three high margin growth businesses listed on the left hand side of this slide, NRS, Boss Money, and Netafone. Collectively, they’re the primary drivers of IDT’s top and bottom line growth end of our value creation. On the right hand side of this slide are our three largest businesses in terms of revenue. All three sit within our traditional communications segment, which generates robust cash flows to finance early stage growth initiatives throughout the company, fund they fund our dividends and buybacks and help us build our balance sheet. Now let’s dig into some of the high growth, high the three high growth, high margin businesses.

Start with the of these is NRS. National Retail Solutions operates the largest point of sale platform for independent retailers in the country. We founded this business about nine years ago after having worked with many of the retailers that sold IDT’s Boss Revolution calling service for many years before that. And through these relationships, it became apparent to us that these mom and pop retailers needed better technology to compete against the large retail chains who were moving into their turf. So we launched NRS to level the playing field.

Our proprietary POS solution provides these retailers with essential tools and services to help them manage their businesses more easily and profitably. As of April 30, NRS operated 35,600 active terminals and approximately 31,000 stores. So just to give you some sense of scale in comparison, the largest retail chains in The US in terms of store count are Dollar General and Subway, and they each have about 20,000 stores. The primary addressable market for the NRS platform is independent independently owned c stores and bodegas, liquor stores, and tobacco shops here in The US. So good data on how large this market is.

It’s very hard to come by. But based on what’s available, we estimate there are about 200,000 of these stores in The US. So we still have about 82% of our addressable market available to us. We’ve been adding an average of 440 new terminals net of churn per month over the past year. And the bottom line here is that we continue to rapidly expand our network.

We have an exceptionally long runway in this market, which is highly fragmented highly fragmented with limited competition. NRS’s recurring revenues exclude the onetime sales of the POS hardware. So we think about them in terms of three different offerings. merchant services, which is predominantly generated by our payment processing service, and that enables our retailers to accept credit and debit cards and is offered under the NRS Pay brand. NRS Pay also includes other forms of electronic services such as EBTs, other forms of electronic payment.

advertising and data revenue, which is predominantly sales of advertising inventory displayed to consumers on the POS’ customer facing digital screen. And finally, SaaS fee revenues are the monthly recurring fees paid for by the retailers for the use of the software that drives the POS’ functionalities. NRS’s recurring revenue increased 23% year over year in the third quarter to $29,400,000 and grew at a 70% CAGR from 21% to 24%. The primary driver of the increase has been the expansion of our POS network to new retailers. In addition, we’ve been working to increase the monthly average recurring revenue per terminal.

So recurring revenue per terminal in the third quarter was $279 a month, and that’s up from $271 or 3% over the past year. So now we’re going to go through each of these revenue streams in somewhat greater detail. So let’s start with the largest, merchant services. So over 90% of the revenue in merchant services is contributed by NRS Pay, which is now utilized by about 25,000 retailers. For Q3, our most recent quarter, the number of NRS Pay accounts increased by 31% year over year.

So it’s expanding more quickly than our terminal network. Over the past few years, we’ve introduced several premium NRS pay plans to drive increases in revenue per account. And those increases helped us sustain a 37% year over year increase in merchant services revenue during q three to nearly $20,000,000. And here, the four year CAGR is 91%. Advertising and data.

NRS sells its large and growing in store retail media ad inventory both through direct sales efforts and programmatic platforms. This vertical includes revenue from sales of our POS’ transaction data to consumer marketers. So advertising and data together is the most volatile component of the recurring revenue and our most volatile recurring revenue stream and also the most heavily seasonal. In q three, revenue was $5,900,000, and that’s typically the lowest revenue quarter of our fiscal year and was a 12% decrease from a year the year earlier. Although advertising revenue is impacted by industry wide factors beyond our control, the business offers significant upside potential.

Now let’s take a look at SaaS fee revenue. NRS retailers pay a monthly recurring charge for the software services that each active POS terminal utilizes. And an MRC ranges between $20 and $75 per month per terminal. We’ve successfully increased the average MRC in recent years by migrating retailers to premium SaaS plans. That increase in the MRC, along with the expansion of our POS network, drove a 33% year over year increase in SaaS fee revenues to $3,900,000 in Q3.

And the four year SaaS fee CAGR was 51%, has been 51%. And we expect continued growth along these lines in the coming years. So a step back, NRS’s economics are extremely attractive. The only significant cost of goods sold are for the terminals themselves. Moreover, approximately half of NRS’s SG and A is fixed or semi fixed, so the economics of the business will continue to improve as we grow.

In Q3 of fiscal twenty twenty five, NRS generated $7,200,000 in adjusted EBITDA on $31,100,000 in total revenue for an EBITDA margin of 23%. And if you think about that in terms of the rule of 40, we achieved a 49% score in Q3, suggesting an appropriate balance of growth and profitability. So to wrap up, NRS is a fantastic business both operationally and financially and has a long runway ahead. So now I’ll turn the call back over to Marcelo to talk about the next business, BOSS Money. And

Marcelo Fischer, CFO and Head of Investor Relations, IDT Corporation: just to clarify, our fiscal year end ends on July 31. So the q three results that we are making reference that we announced one week ago, that’s for the months of February, March, and April. So both money is our international money remittance business. It generates over 90% of the revenue of our fintech segment, which also includes other much smaller early stage fintech initiatives. When we launched Boss Money about a decade ago, we did so by leveraging our nationwide retail customer base, our Boss brand, and our retail distribution network to build the business from the ground up.

Today, Boss Money customers here in The United States send out cash to friends and family in 50 countries. Boss Money goes to market through two channels, digital and retail. Over 80% of our transactions originate through our digital channel by customers using our BOSS money and BOSS revolution apps. Our retail channel where the customers visit a BOSS money retailer agent and can pay with cash, brings large numbers of new, often unbanked customers into the BOSS ecosystem. Because our business is predominantly digital, our growth profile is closer to pure digital channel players like Remitly rather than traditional retail channel centric remittance operators.

Both money is growing robustly in the dominant digital channel. Digital transaction volume increased 32% in q three, while send volume, the total amount transferred increased by 40% as customers shifted towards sending larger amounts less frequently. Digital revenue increased 31% to 24,500,000.0 in the third quarter. Our full year annualized digital revenue growth rate is 27%. So although the money remittance industry is extremely competitive, as you just saw in the previous slide on our revenue growth, we have been able to achieve and sustain one of the highest growth rates in the industry, primarily by leveraging the synergies of our for customer acquisition and retention provided by cross marketing both money with our larger both revolution calling and mobile top up customer basis or as we refer to it, the larger BOSS ecosystem advantage.

In fiscal twenty five, we are spending roughly 15,000,000 marketing the BOSS brand, primarily targeting the large populations of and generation American immigrants from our core market corridors. Once we have successfully onboarded a customer in any of our BOS offerings, we are consistently consistently able to upsell to them. To give you a sense of the scope of this effort, last month, we delivered approximately 50,000,000 impressions to BOS customers. In fiscal twenty four, BOS customers initiated 86,000,000 transactions. This BOS ecosystem is a unique reinforcing asset that significantly lowers our customer acquisition cost and increases our customer lifetime value.

So looking ahead, we are pursuing a variety of exciting cross selling initiatives to build on our momentum. So as BuffMoney scales, our unit cost structure continues to improve. We leverage our larger transaction volumes to cut better deals with payout partners, while at the same time also optimizing our operating model through automation, leaning more and more on AI. The fintech segment turned adjusted EBITDA positive last year. And in the third quarter of this fiscal year, for the very time, it generated adjusted EBITDA of over $5,000,000.

And the adjusted EBITDA margin increased to 13%. So thinking ahead about both money’s profitability, many of the public players in the money transfer space generate 15 to 25% adjusted EBITDA margins. We are working to achieve comparable level of profitability as we continue to scale the business over the next few years. So now let’s turn back to our last high margin growth business, Net2Phone. Bill?

Bill Urie, Head of Investor Relations, IDT Corporation: Net2Phone is IDT’s long standing b to b brand. It provides cloud based communication services to businesses in North America and also to the underserved South American market. Under the Unite brand name, Netafone’s unified communications as a service offering is priced in differentiated tiers starting at $19.95 per user per month here in The US, while UContact, Net2Fone’s contact center as a service offering, starts at $59.99 per seat per month here in The US. Both services are also offered in our South American markets, which comprise approximately half of our total seats served. Net to Phone’s solid growth and cash generation are a function of several strategic differentiators that, in their totality, insulate it somewhat from the fierce competitive pressures in the industry.

These differentiators include Netafone’s focus on middle market enterprises rather than the largest multinational accounts, a channel centric approach that makes it easy for technology partners to price provision and service Net to Phone’s UCaaS and CCaaS offerings. And finally, Net to Phone is uniquely focused on North And South America. So Latin America remains an underserved market, and Net to Phone has prospered there with truly localized offerings that are difficult for the largest players to replicate. At the at the close of q three of fiscal twenty twenty five, Net to Phone served 415,000 UCaaS plus CCaaS seats across North And South America. Seats served increased 8% year over year, driving a 7% increase in subscription revenue.

Looking at that on a constant currency basis, revenue increased 11%. Net to Phone’s third quarter fiscal twenty twenty five adjusted EBITDA jumped 50% year over year to $3,200,000, while the adjusted EBITDA margin increased to 15% from 10%. Margin expansion has been and will continue to be a key long term driver of Net2Fone’s bottom line growth. The company has benefited from operating leverage, growth of its higher ARPU CCaaS offerings and tremendous financial discipline to drive its bottom line improvement. We expect to continue to drive ARPU and margin expansion in the coming year by migrating customers to premium plans and offerings with AI powered features.

Most notably, NettoPhone recently launched its AI agent. It’s a scalable virtual assistant that provides exceptional customer experiences across sales, support, and administrative tasks. Early customer feedback has been amazingly positive, and we are excited about the potential here, both to increase ARPU from our current customer base and to accelerate customer acquisitions. Now to talk about our traditional communications segment. Back to you, Marcel.

Marcelo Fischer, CFO and Head of Investor Relations, IDT Corporation: You want to take the patient? So IDT digital payments, both revolution calling and IDT global carrier services along with other small offerings comprise our traditional communications segment. In aggregate, this segment generated 867,000,000 in revenue over the trailing twelve months, to 71% of IDT’s consolidated revenue. Revenue from the largest of these businesses, IDT digital payments, mostly consist of sales of mobile top up, which is a service that enables customers to transfer airtime and bundles of airtime messaging and data to international and domestic mobile accounts. Revenue from this business has been stable over the past year, while its contribution to bottom line profitability have increased significantly.

Our BOSS Revolution and IDT Global Carrier Services businesses, our legacy businesses in the paid minute international long distance calling industry, which is in a long tailed terminal decline. As you can see, we have been able to increase traditional communications adjusted EBITDA significantly over the past year even as negative revenues have decreased. This has mostly been driven by good pricing execution in our digital payments business and from the positive impact of cost reductions and efficiencies, implemented over the prior year. In the third quarter, traditional communications adjusted EBITDA increased by 4,500,000 year over year, a 30% increase to 19,300,000.0 even as traditional communications revenue decreased by 11,500,000.0 or 5%. So now that we discussed all the segments, let’s just wrap up by taking a quick look at the consolidated results.

In fiscal twenty twenty two, the segments that held IDT’s three high margin growth businesses contributed 39% of the company’s consolidated gross profit. By 3Q twenty five, that percentage of GP from the growth business segments had risen to 61%, helping to drive IDT’s consolidated gross profit margin to a record 37.1%, a 470 basis points increase compared to the year ago quarter. Looking at our trailing twelve months, the high growth, high margin business segments had an average gross profit margin of 75% compared to 19% for traditional communications. And this continued rotation of the revenue mix to the growth businesses will continue to drive gross margin expansion for the foreseeable future. IDT generated 120,400,000.0 in adjusted EBITDA in the trailing twelve months, and we expect to generate at least a 126,000,000 for all of fiscal twenty twenty five as our growth businesses continue to gain scale.

And this is a significant step up from the 89,700,000.0 that we generated in fiscal two thousand twenty four. IDT has also built a very strong balance sheet, including $224,000,000 in cash, cash equivalents, debt securities and current equity investments as of April 30, and we have no debt. Our strong balance sheet provides us with considerable strategic flexibility, and we routinely scout and evaluate M and A opportunities across our business. IDT returns value directly to our stockholders through both our regularly call regular quarterly dividend, which we just increased from 20¢ to 24¢ per share earlier this year, and through opportunistic stock repurchases, which totaled 21,000,000 over the last year. So now Bill and myself happy to take any questions.

Okay. Hi. Right. So the answer is to is all of the above, right? At the current moment, we are deploying a lot of that cash before it gets deployed to fund the working capital needs of the growth of particularly the both money business, which requires a lot of working capital to fund weakened transactions.

But we have increased the amount of repurchases of stock. And it’s likely that we’ll continue to repurchase more of the stock and may consider doing a special dividend at some point or just to raise our current dividend. But by far, the main objective is to utilize that gunpowder in the balance sheet to look for acquisitions that could be great value creators for the company. We are very conservative when we look at acquisitions. We really need to find the right one that adds tremendous value.

And if we do find that one, we will not be shy on deploying all of our cash and even not even, but including taking meaningful amount of debt onto the balance sheet if we find the right opportunity. And that’s really what we’ve been scouting for. And there are a lot of things that we’re looking at on a daily basis. So we by and large are looking at opportunities mostly on the high growth segments. So we look at opportunities in NRS.

NRS today is a U. S. Centric business, extremely successful. We know we could replicate the NRS story in other countries, in other markets. Latin America will be a very natural place to take an NRS business next.

And it will be far easier if you could find the right acquisition opportunity or joint venture opportunity in one of those countries to launch an RF over there. We’ve been looking at some of those opportunities in the NRS space. When it comes to the Neto Phone space, we’ve been looking at opportunities to complement our technology, especially on the AI side of the business, more smaller type of acquisitions. And on the BOSS money side, on the money transfer side, we have always been big believers that scale matters a lot. Joining forces and acquiring one of our competitors could make a huge difference in terms of the amount of cost synergies that this business can drive.

As this business scales, the more volumes you bring to the table, the better pricing you can get from distribution, the Boston partners. So it makes a lot of sense for us to be able to grow the BOSS money business, not just organically as we have done, but also through an acquisition. When it comes to our traditional segment, by and large, the opportunities there for acquisitions are not really that meaningful. And we are really running those businesses more for cash flow generation. So we don’t really spend much time in acquisition on that segment.

Management structure? Sure. So each one of our segments has their own management team, CEO, CFO, COO. We try to make sure that each of the segments management is fully focused just in running their business. And at the corporate level, we provide corporate support in terms of evaluating the acquisitions, now in coaching those management teams, in deciding to how much capital to allocate in those new initiatives.

So we leave the segment’s management to operate and while the capital allocation decisions, strategic decisions, acquisition decisions carried mostly at the corporate level.

Unidentified speaker: So

Marcelo Fischer, CFO and Head of Investor Relations, IDT Corporation: we have developed right now an AI agent bot, which we are looking to deploy into our UCaaS and CCaaS customer base to really help and facilitate the work that’s done mostly at customer care centers for our clients. We believe the bot that we created is a very good one. We have deployed already that AI agent in our own businesses, Our both money customer centers, our NRS customer centers are using those AI agents internally. The people managing those call centers in IT really like it. It’s hard to please our people internally, but we really like that AI agent.

Today, for example, if you want to interact with our boss money customer care and chat, you’re not going to be talking to chatting with a human being. You’re chatting already with our AI bot. So now our goal and our objective is continue to refine and fine tune our AI agent bot and create the means to go to market and offer it as a separate new revenue driver for the NetFone business.

Unidentified speaker: In the legacy businesses, what are the major threats so to speak?

Marcelo Fischer, CFO and Head of Investor Relations, IDT Corporation: Well, the legacy business again, it’s mostly two businesses. It’s the international long distance business, both the bus division calling business and the wholesale global carrier business. That industry have been in decline now for almost two decades. More and more people are not paying to make a phone call. They are using WhatsApp and other peer to peer free calling services.

We have identified that decline already many years ago and that’s why we pivoted already many years ago to try to leverage our competitive advantages of customer base brand distribution away from dependency on minutes and into all these new initiatives. Just to give an example, if you go back about ten years ago, we used to carry about 30,000,000,000 minutes in our network. We were probably the largest carrier of minutes around the globe. Today, we are still probably one of the top seven largest carriers of meters in the globe. But we only care about seven, eight billion meters.

So our raw material which was the meters of bread and butter have declined by about 85% over the past ten years. And yet our EBITDA profitability have doubled during that period of time as we grew all the volume initiatives in business. In terms of the traditional business in general? In general, I mean, a CFO, the things that keep me up at night always are regulatory environment changes that we don’t control. And usually just cyber security, cyber risk.

All of our products are platform based services. You always hear in the news all types of cyber attacks, random ransomware. So we try to have robust cybersecurity controls within the company. But those are always something that concerns any CFO as well as the regulatory changes, right? All the recent immigrant administration or the new immigrant things happening right now that you read on the news, right?

A lot of our customers are immigrants, right? So we pay a lot of attention into those dynamics. Now that could have could impact our business as well as our competitors now in this space where it’s both money or NRS. So always that regulatory environment changing, you know, is something to be aware of. And it could be an opportunity, it could be a risk depending how well you react to it.

Unidentified speaker: Can you talk about the value that NRS provides

Marcelo Fischer, CFO and Head of Investor Relations, IDT Corporation: I think that NRS has done a great, great job to demonstrate to the independent retailer that their success is our success. And to really build that partnership and that trust that we are here to facilitate their business, to allow them to have the technology, the information for them to be able to compete against the seven Elevens and other retailers that have better technology than they are. And we really became successful in that today. The NRS is the brand name for independent retailer community. Now, we try to show to our retailer that they’re just selling them a POS machine, but we have robust SaaS plans.

And depending on which plan they sign up for, they could get more information and more to be able to compete. For example, you may have a retailer that’s selling coke, 16 ounce coke for a dollar. Now, we could provide to that retailer what is the average coke selling by other independent retailers in that zip code. And if they are selling for example, a dollar 28, we inform that to the retailer so he could sell to a dollar 25 and still make a profit. So we enable retailers to understand what’s happening in their communities, what inventory items they may not be having in selling the store.

They could be good sellers. And we try to provide them with the ability to now we are just launching now a partnership with Doordash to allow retailers to be able to fulfill orders to customers. More and more people are trying not to come to the stores as much. Now they’re busy. They’re trying to order online.

So we try to provide all kinds of solutions to make the independent retailer to be able to operate larger than he does today.

Unidentified speaker: David, that’s those are the qualitative things. And quantitatively, we’re not seeing churn from other competitors. It’s not like we’re losing stores to clover that. No, it almost never happens. It’s always the story they’re going out of business or selling into a new owner who then we have to resell and resell the POS.

We just don’t see, it’s not a competitive environment. This particular niche is just we’re not competing with other POS operators.

Unidentified speaker: So of your churn, what percentage of it is that? Like they’re just selling or going out of business versus like organic churn which would be moving to another solution?

Marcelo Fischer, CFO and Head of Investor Relations, IDT Corporation: I would say probably more north of 90%. Of course. Of course. Yeah. You might you might lose a retail occasionally because he though he didn’t get adjusted to using the POS system.

Maybe he didn’t like the customer service. But by and large, the lion’s lion’s share is starts going out of business or transferring.

Unidentified speaker: I guess it was all related

Unidentified speaker: to this NRS. But if there are 160,000 remaining terminals why is that not attractive to some other competitors?

Unidentified speaker: I think part of it, I mean look I’m sure it is attractive to them but it’s a very hard market to penetrate. Like we go to market three ways. So we have about over 200 salespeople going to the ground. Remember these are largely themselves, these stores, many of them are run by immigrants. English may not be their language and so there’s a whole, it’s not just like a corporate sale.

You’re not walking in a suit and a tie, right? And selling these. So you’re going in, you’re able to speak to their needs and experiences and owner and how you can make a tangible benefit and improvement to them. It’s just a difficult process. So each sale feels like us, like a little mini campaign, right?

And so

Bill Urie, Head of Investor Relations, IDT Corporation: we go

Unidentified speaker: to market that way through those boots on the ground. And we have a call center in Guatemala where we’re calling in predominantly to Hispanic business owners, bodega owners to convince them that they should give the POS try and we go through distributors as well. But the point being that it’s a very difficult highly fragmented market that it would be costly for someone else to replicate that and start to doing it would take a long time and be tough to have gone.

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