Integer Holdings at Raymond James Conference: Strategic Growth Plans

On Wednesday, 05 March 2025, Integer Holdings Corp (NYSE: ITGR) presented its strategic plans and financial performance at the Raymond James & Associates’ 46th Annual Institutional Investors Conference. CEO Joe Dzic highlighted Integer’s strong 2024 results and future growth targets, while addressing concerns over inventory adjustments and customer concentration.

Key Takeaways

• Integer reported a 10% sales growth in 2024, with 7.3% from organic growth.
• The company plans to achieve 8-10% sales growth in 2025, with 6-8% organic growth.
• Integer has increased development sales by 270% since 2017.
• Major customers include Abbott, Boston Scientific, and Medtronic, comprising 47% of sales.
• Strategic acquisitions and a focus on high-growth markets are central to Integer’s strategy.

Financial Results

• 2024 Sales Growth: 10% total, 7.3% organic
• 2024 Operating Profit Growth: 20%
• 2024 Adjusted Net Income Growth: 18%
• 2025 Sales Growth Guidance: 8-10% total, 6-8% organic
• 2025 Operating Income Growth Guidance: 11-16%
• Tariff Impact for 2025: Estimated at $1-5 million

Operational Updates

• Portfolio Optimization: Divested $400 million Advanced Surgical and Orthopedic business in 2017; exiting Portable Medical business by end of 2025
• Strategic Acquisitions: Six tuck-in acquisitions in the past three years
• Manufacturing Efficiency: Margin expansion improved by 76 basis points

Future Outlook

• Sales Growth Target: High single-digit to low double-digit growth
• Margin Expansion: Continued focus on efficiency improvements
• Development Pipeline: Strong revenue growth from 2018-2020 development programs
• Emerging Customer Growth: 15-20% growth expected from new customers

Q&A Highlights

• Inventory Dynamics: Adjustments have been factored into 2025 guidance
• Customer Concentration: Diversified relationships across numerous programs mitigate risks

For a detailed analysis and more insights, please refer to the full transcript below.

Full transcript - Raymond James & Associates’ 46th Annual Institutional Investors Conference 2025:

Andrew Cooper, Raymond James Analyst, Raymond James: Welcome, everybody. Thanks for joining us. I’m Andrew Cooper.

Cover life science tools, diagnostics, and and a little bit of med tech as well here at Raymond James. Happy to have, for the first time for me, the the Inager team here. We’re gonna start with a little bit of presentation and then go into some fireside chat as well to the degree there’s time. So without any further ado, I’m gonna pass it to Joe Dzic, CEO, to, walk us through some slides. Thanks, Joe.

Joe Dzic, CEO, Integer: Morning, everybody. Alright. I’m here to present to you the best idea of the conference. Just checking to see who’s checking email and who’s listening. So thank thank you, Andrew.

Thanks for having us. It’s it’s great to be here. Hope you’ve all had as much fun at the conference as we’ve had. I’m gonna skip the forward looking statements. You know what those say.

Integer is the a leading medical device contract development and manufacturing outsourcer to the medical device industry. We serve, everybody in the industry in some way, shape, or form from the largest customers to the smallest customers, including startups. $1,700,000,000 in sales in 02/2024. Guidance at about a billion, 8 8 and a half in ’25. Eleven thousand associates, ’17 manufacturing sites, nine r and d centers spread around the world, co located with our customers in, in the med device hubs in in Galway, Ireland, Minneapolis.

We have operations in Mexico, The Dominican Republic, Malaysia. We’re we have a a footprint that allows us to serve our customers where they want to do development side by side and launch complex innovative products as well as as manufacturing locations where we can bring the low labor cost environment that helps the industry deliver deliver very cost effective solutions. We you see at the bottom here, our sales are about 55% in the cardiovascular segment. I’m gonna go into a little more depth on the sub the sub markets within cardiovascular. About 38% in cardiac rhythm management and neuromodulation and 6% in other, which a portion of that we’re we’ve been exiting for the last three years as as part of, exiting, products that we don’t have the level of differentiation and the profitability that we would desire.

The balance in other are products that we continue to serve customer or serve, customers who bought businesses that we’ve divested. So we we we work on the left hand side. You can take this slide home and and read it later, but the the takeaway here is very global footprint serving the entire industry from the largest players to the smallest players and early stage development companies. We we work to have a very vertically integrated offering to to simplify our customer supply chain and to help them get to market faster and bring innovative solutions that helps our customers expand the markets that they’re serving. We’re following their lead on where the innovation is going in the industry that’s increasing the available market by serving patients who are either unmet or underserved.

So we are very much following our customers’ strategy of innovation into the markets where more patients need to be be need to be helped. When we help our customers execute and succeed with their strategy, we get the right to participate and win with them. So if there’s only one slide out of this entire deck that you print and put on your wall, this is it. This is our favorite slide because it summarizes and captures what we characterize as the investment thesis when we talk to you. Internal to the company, we call this our North Star.

So this this summarizes for you on the top left our portfolio strategy. These are the products, the end markets that we’ve decided to participate in, and we have made portfolio structure changes, which I’ll highlight on the next slide. We have very clear product line strategies. I’ll highlight the growth teams that we created to develop and execute those strategies that determines how we win in the markets that we’re serving. The next block is our operational strategy.

It’s focused on customers’ cost and culture. On the customers and cost, we have two strategic imperatives in each of those categories that we work we use operationally to execute and and how we deliver excellence, in these areas. The culture is an important one to us because our our objective is sustained outperformance, And we believe you can have a great strategy, you can have great customers, great technology, but the culture is what allows for sustain. It’s what enables sustained outperformance. And we spend a lot of effort and energy on culture because we do think that is the key to sustained outperformance, which leads me to the third block, which are our values.

We talk about these as how we engage with each other. When you say culture, some people can’t describe it. It’s a soft, squishy, and tangible thing. Well, it’s not. It’s how you treat each other.

It’s that simple. And and we spend a lot of time curating a culture that we believe enables us to be very candid with each other, to be very collaborative, and and and and move the business forward in executing our strategy. And we think the culture that we’ve created is a performance culture that allows us to deliver sustained outperformance. We define three very clear strategic financial objectives. You see those on the far right.

The reason that on the far right is they’re the output. This is the financial quantification of all of operational execution and how we engage and work with each other. Our goal is to grow at least 200 basis points above the markets we serve on an organic basis to demonstrate we are winning in the markets we’re serving. We want profit growth, operating profit to grow at least twice as times or to grow twice as fast as sales. So organically, our markets are growing based on the markets we’re serving four to 6%.

So we want at least 200 basis points above that. That’s six to eight. We want profit growth of twice that six to eight. That’s that’s our strategy. That that’s our objective.

We achieved that in 02/2024 with 10% sales growth and 20% profit growth. When I stepped in as CEO in 02/2017, we were six times levered from an acquisition we had done. So we developed a very clear two and a half to three and a half times leverage that that we want to live within. We do we are committed to that. We regulate our acquisitions and our investments to live within that two and a half to three and a half.

We think that gives us good capability to continue investing in the business organically while also doing strategic tuck in acquisitions. So we think we have a very clear and compelling strategy. We think we have a resilient business model. We think we have a compelling growth strategy. We think we’ve built and continue to strengthen a performance culture and that we can deliver on that, with the financial strength that allows us to continue investing in the business.

So there’s only one slide you print and put on your wall. It’s this one. So maybe briefly our journey. In 02/2017, we went through our strategy process to develop the strategy we’re executing today. And on the top, what you see are the outcomes from a portfolio standpoint.

The first decision we made was to divest 400,000,000 of our 1,500,000,000.0 in sales back at the February. We executed on that strategy. Six months later, we sold 400,000,000, which was our advanced surgical and orthopedic business. Strategically, we could not find the the the technology differentiation for our customers. We weren’t seeing the growth rates that that we wanted, and the margins were below the company average.

So So we divested that business. It helped us to delever. It helped us to simplify our manufacturing footprint and enabled us to begin the execution of our strategy in 02/2018. In late two thousand twenty two, we we announced or late twenty one, we announced the divest or the exit process in, what we call portable medical, a piece of our business that we also said there’s not enough technology differentiation. We were unhappy with the growth rate and the profitability.

We’ll complete the exit of of that piece of business at the end of twenty twenty five. And then in the fourth quarter of last year, we divested the only nonmedical piece of our business that we had, which were batteries for primarily downhole oil and gas exploration and drilling. That was a $50,000,000 sale proceeds, EPS neutral, and now we are a pure play medical device company. The middle of the slide highlights for you our product line strategies. We developed what we call growth teams, which are product management, organizations that own determining the strategy for how we’re going to win in the markets that that we sell.

They’re organized by market. They they understand the end markets, where the innovation is occurring, what’s the competitive landscape, what capabilities do we need, and they develop that value proposition and that go to market strategy. We developed those teams in 02/2018.

Andrew Cooper, Raymond James Analyst, Raymond James: We launched them, and they’ve been leading the execution of

Joe Dzic, CEO, Integer: our product line strategies. And what you see on this slide are Galway, Dominican Republic, New Ross, these are acquisitions and facilities where we’ve made meaningful investments or expansions in capability and capacity. And then underneath that, you see the acquisitions that we’ve done where we we have a very clear strategic criteria for the acquisitions that we pursue. These are tuck ins. We look for acquisitions to supplement our our strong organic growth and to bring capabilities that expand our vertically integrated offering.

And on the bottom is is our operational strategy focused on manufacturing excellence and driving efficiencies. Pre pandemic, we we had great success in expanding margins about 300 basis points in 2018, ’nineteen. The disruption of the pandemic created some challenges for us that we have now worked through, and our operating teams are now very focused on getting back to driving those efficiencies. And we’ve been expanding margins the last couple years and have margin expansion of about about 76 basis points in our 2025 guidance. So the growth teams, this is how we drive the product line strategies.

We have teams on the left. You see the structure. They’re structured by end market. Their role is to understand everything about those markets, everything our customers are doing from an innovation to expand the patient population, competitive landscape, what’s our value proposition. They analyze and assess the capabilities that we have.

More importantly, they look for capabilities that could increase and expand our vertical vertically integrated offering to to then drive both organic investments as well as acquisitions. This is where the strategy work occurs. We have a very structured disciplined process that we follow as an organization. We have teams that we have built and developed over time. These are market focused, highly technical, teams that understand the markets and guide our strategy of execution.

It has led us to continue to build on what we believe is the deepest and broadest offering in the industry relative to our competitor base. We we show this slide because it it it provides you for cardiovascular the submarkets that we’re focused on. The way to read this slide is anything on the far left is still early in the maturity of developing that technology. That’s why you see renal denervation, which was outside of that blue box a year ago. It has moved now inside the box as it gets closer to becoming a more commercially available product.

You see pulse field ablation is is growing and starting to move up the curve for growth. You see structural heart, neurovascular, electrophysiology, faster growing submarkets, with technology that continues to innovate. And if you look to the far, far right, you see interventional cardiology, which has a more a much more mature technology and and therefore, slower growth. So the blue box, it gives you an indication of where we’re focusing and spending our energies and where we are investing to drive growth. We have the exact same picture for cardiac rhythm management and neuromodulation.

The color code there, the dark is neuromodulation. You see that is mostly in the faster growing, still coming up the technology curve with the exception of, I’ll call it, traditional pain management, SCS, which you see kind of half in, half out. And then you see conventional CRM pacemakers, defibrillators, still very mature, but a very big piece of the market. We are focusing very much in the higher growth CRM markets that you see on the the slide here, whether it’s leadless pacemakers or cardiac monitoring or ventricular assist, and you see the the different applications and and therapies in neuromodulation that we also are a strong provider of a very vertically integrated offering for both implantable pulse generators and complete lead systems. So the growth starts with getting designed into new products.

If there’s one thing I’d leave you with, the most significant change in our strategy in 02/2018 was we went from trying to take business away from competitors that was already in production to getting designed into the next generation or the the the next new product, new therapy that our customers were working on. And so when we started this journey, you see on this slide, 02/2017, you see the graph that where our development sales were. This is customers paying us to do development work, to design our technology of our the components, or to develop design our manufacturing processes into their devices. And you can see we’ve grown our sales from 02/2017, the year before we launched the strategy, which was 02/2018. We’ve grown these development sales by 270%.

Last year, this slide showed 230% on it. So we continue to grow the development work. This is what creates the pipeline for sustained above market organic growth. So shots on goal have increased by 270%. That’s the way to think about the left side.

The right side breaks down of the programs we’re working on for customers supporting that design and development of their devices. In 02/2017, we had about half of those programs were in what we would characterize as the faster growing end markets and half were in the more mature, slower growing. So this is the quality of those shots on goal. So we’ve shifted that mix. We did that fairly quickly.

You see 02/2021, we were at about 80% of the shots on goal. These development programs are in those faster growing markets. This is how we’re shifting the mix of our development programs. So the new products we’re getting designed into are in inherently faster growing markets, which enables us to outgrow the markets that we’re serving. And the markets we’re serving based upon our sales mix is about four to 6%, call it mid single digits.

So our goal is at least 200 basis points above that. So we have a very strong pipeline of development programs, significantly more shots on goal with a better better mix in the markets that we’re serving. We’ve we’ve been showing this slide since the February. What you have on the left hand side so these are emerging customers in what what we call or what’s called premarket approval. Think of these as these are for devices that get implanted in the body for ten years or longer.

These are implantable pulse generators that are used to stimulate the central nervous system. And and so there’s an IPG that gets implanted similar to a pacemaker, and then there’s a lead system that connects to the implantable pulse generator that then reaches the central nervous system somewhere and stimulates the body to treat a a condition. On the left hand side, we we’ve detailed out, the five phases of this development process. And so you start with development of an idea, develop a prototype, try to prove that it’s safe, prove that it have has efficacy, take it through development, take it through regulatory, and then you move into the two phases of commercial launch. You see 39 different customers, 39 different products on the left hand side.

The first time we showed this in the third quarter two thousand twenty, there were 27 customers and products on this slide. So that 270 growth in development revenue, this is contributing to that growth because we have 44% more shots on goal in this market with these customers. On the right hand side, we show the sales that we had from the customers that are in that one of two phases of of product launch. In the left, we’ve got it a blue box around it. You see the growth that we’ve been able to generate.

In 02/2018, we had 10,000,000. So in 2020, we said we’d be around 20,000,000. And in 2021, we said we would grow 2022 to about 40,000,000. We ended up at 50. We started the 2024 outlook at at 80 to a hundred, then we increased it to a 20, and we ended up slightly above that.

So you see the very strong growth trajectory. We’ve gone from what was a 10 to $20,000,000 business four years ago to a book of business that’s now a hundred and 25,000,000. We expect this book of business and these customers in this pipeline to generate 15 to 20% growth on a go forward basis, which is growing at, we think, about twice the rate of the market. We have a fully vertically integrated offering here where the components, we oftentimes manufacture the components, we do the design development of the IPG and or the lead system, and then we do the finished device assembly and support our customer from the early stage of development all the way through high volume manufacturing launch. This is an exciting part of our business that has a very strong pipeline of continued growth.

So that’s the organic story. So we we we want the bulk of our business and top line growth to be organically driven, but we also have the capacity and capability to to do inorganic, strategic tuck in acquisitions. We compete in a very fragmented marketplace. There are a lot of smaller, call it, 10 to 20 to $5,075,000,000 dollar companies that are oftentimes privately founder founder led, founder owned, or private equity owned businesses that we work with. Oftentimes, we are either a customer or a supplier to many of of these these potential acquisition targets in the industry.

When we look at our cash flow generation, we look at our EBITDA growth and the acquired EBITDA from an acquisition, we estimate we have $350,000,000 to $400,000,000 of annual acquisition capacity to do these strategic tuck ins. We’ve got very clear criteria that we evaluate that we we detailed out here, and we’re we work to be very disciplined about how we execute on this tuck in acquisition strategy. So we we we’ve completed six acquisitions in a little more than three years. We we had we did not do any substantive acquisitions from 02/2015 to 02/2021. I think I mentioned in 02/2017 when I joined as CEO, we were six times levered, so we spent the next three to four years getting our leverage down.

And now that we have leverage in that two and a half to three and a half target, we’ve been able to do these strategic tuck ins and expect to continue being able to do that. What we expect to be able to deliver then is on a go forward basis between the organic growth and the supplement of the organic growth with strategic tuck ins. We’re driving for high single digit to low double digit total sales growth on a go forward basis. Contrast this with before we started implementing this strategy where we were going at about the market about mid single digits. So we want you to think of us as high single digit, low double digit, all in on a go forward basis with expanding margins.

So let me, summarize 02/2024 since we we’re we’re just a few weeks away from having reported our earnings release. We had reported sales for 02/2024 of 10% growth. That was 7.3% organic. So we we had strategic tuck in acquisitions that got us to that double digit. We had EBITDA and operating profit growth of nineteen and twenty percent.

So we we did hit our operating profit growing twice as fast as sales, 20% compared to 10%. I wish we were so good we could land on that every year. That’s our strategy and what we’re driving towards. And you see adjusted net income up 18%. We feel like we’re executing our strategy, quite effectively, and we’ve got a great growth trajectory, which leads me to to 02/2025 outlook.

We guided to and I’m reiterating 2025 guidance of eight to 10% sales growth. That’s reported six to 8% organic sales growth, operating income at 11 to 16%. We felt like this was the right place to start the year with adjusted net income growing 13 to 20%. This is also a good time to maybe provide an update on the impact of tariffs. I checked the news before we started.

Hadn’t seen any changes. Now that the 25% tariffs have been implemented on Canada and Mexico. I I mentioned earlier, we have three manufacturing facilities in Mexico. We we do not have any operations in Canada. And when you consider the import tariffs, I’m talking import tariffs on China and Canada, negligible.

Mexico with three manufacturing facilities. We have two in Tijuana. They’re side by side buildings run by the same manufacturing leadership team. We have one in Juarez, Mexico. These are maquiladora structures.

So historically, the way those those work, you bring material from The US to Mexico, you process it, you ship it back into The US, you if there were tariffs or duties or taxes, you only pay on the value add. The recent executive orders said that does not apply. Anything you bring back will be subject to the 25% tariff. So the first thing we’ve done is we’ve made operational logistics changes so that anything coming out of Mexico is now either being shipped directly to non US locations or it’s flowing through The US in a structure that avoids the tariff while it’s in transit and then leaves The US. So that’s been fully implemented.

That mitigated a substantial portion of the the potential tariff impact. The next thing we’ve done is we we’ve gone through and and analyzed the impact of of the tariffs and what’s dutiable or non dutiable, what’s subject to the tariff and and what’s not. Our estimate of the impact for 2025 is in the 1 to $5,000,000 range, for the 25% import tariff in in into Mexico, with a negligible amount of the impact coming from Canada and and China for for those tariffs. So we’re estimating 1 to $5,000,000 of 2025 impact. The range of AOI guidance we have on the slide here is $3.15 to $331,000,000.

We feel that that 1 to 5,000,000 is covered by this range of operating income for the year. So reiterating full year guidance with more clarity on the potential or the impact of tariffs coming from imports from Canada, China, and Mexico. So I’m gonna wrap up with cash flow. We continue to increase and generate strong cash flow from operations on the far left. We’re increasing our free cash flow.

We’re investing in the business. From here forward, we would expect to grow CapEx and the range of of sales growth as we continue to add new programs, new products. We invest in the capacity and equipment to do so. We’ve given you a target range for our net debt, combined with where we’ve guided you to EBITDA growth and net debt. You can do a calculation on where our debt leverage range is at the end of the year.

That math puts you towards the lower end of the range by the end of 02/2025. Andrew, I’m happy to field any questions.

Andrew Cooper, Raymond James Analyst, Raymond James: Perfect. Yeah. We’ve got a few minutes. We can sit up here and, go through a couple things. You took my first one.

I was gonna have to ask about tariffs. So I feel like you laid that out, pretty well. I’ll I’ll maybe skip that. I think the other kind of very topical piece, you had another player in the OEM landscape, talk about some inventory dynamics in affecting their portfolio and and their business. So just would love any comments from you.

Is that something you’re seeing in terms of your customers, you know, more aggressively managing inventory or anything like that as we think about ’25?

Joe Dzic, CEO, Integer: Sure. So on on inventory, I think the, we’ve had three competitors who are industrial companies with divisions, in medical that have all had some form of commentary on on inventory impact. And, what what I’ll say is we feel like we have really strong visibility to the demand from our customers. We have almost $800,000,000 of orders on hand. We call it backlog, but think of it as order specific SKUs, specific quantity, specific ship date.

That combined with our customers continually giving us a rolling twelve month view of how what the demand is for their manufacturing plants for what we supply to them, we feel gives us really good visibility. We have factored all of that into our guidance. What what I will say is I I commented back in the second half of twenty three. We saw we saw customers sending out letters to all their suppliers about inventory adjustments that was that was incorporated into the information the customers are giving us about their demand. We saw we saw those kinds of things continue throughout 2024.

We consider inventory management to just be something customers are always doing, and and we incorporate the the visibility they’re giving us into our guidance, and we’re very comfortable with our guidance for 2025.

Andrew Cooper, Raymond James Analyst, Raymond James: Perfect. And maybe now with that out of the way and the tariffs piece out of the way, diving to to a a little bit higher level questions. You know, the thing that stands out to me, I think, is the the 270% growth in in the development work and kind of trying to be skating to where the puck is going. What inning of that journey do you think we’re in knowing that a PMA process is a multiyear process? So what work you think you put in, you know, in motion in 2021 probably isn’t necessarily bearing fruit yet.

So where are we in that journey?

Joe Dzic, CEO, Integer: Yeah. It’s a it’s a great question. So in in 02/2018 when we launched this strategy, we knew it was going to take three, four, five, six years to start seeing manufacturing revenues from the development work. We we have a slide in that we we we oftentimes show that that talks about the cycle times from winning a development work, when’s it become when’s manufacturing revenue. So we knew back in 02/2018, this was gonna take a while.

We also had confidence that once you get that pipeline built, you now have a pipeline that can deliver sustained growth. And we are now in the phase where we are seeing those early years, 02/2018, ’19, ’20 wins where we started development work. We’re seeing that turn into manufacturing revenue. And so I would say we’re five or six years into execution of getting designed in as our strategy. Every time we do an acquisition, we are either compounding differentiated capability we already have or like the two most recent acquisitions, we’re adding new capabilities that help us to get designed into even more products or or further vertically integrate.

So I would say we’re five or six years into the execution of our strategy, which we believe is enduring and the right strategy for the long term. We are in the very early innings of seeing those debt development growth start to translate into manufacturing revenues. And we think we’re we’re now on the trajectory of strong pipeline that’s been built built over five or six years that can continue to deliver sustained above market organic growth.

Andrew Cooper, Raymond James Analyst, Raymond James: Perfect. And just to to make sure it’s clear, because I think there was a little noise around four q. The product development work shows up where on the P and L, and and how do we think about kinda what that does in a given period knowing it can be a little bit lumpy?

Joe Dzic, CEO, Integer: Sure. So I’ll I’ll answer this way, and then I’ll give you the specifics. When we do more development work that customers pay us for, the r and d expense line in the income statement gets lower. It ends up being reported as sales for what they pay us, and and then we move some of that r and d work into cost of goods sold. That may sound confusing.

That’s accounting. Sometimes it is confusing, but think of it this way. The r and d line going down probably means we got paid to do more development work. And I can tell you in 2025 2024 actuals, you’ll see our r and d expense line went down. That’s because we grew the development sales.

Alright. I I the slide I showed you said 270%. Last year, that slide said 230%. So you see we grew it significantly still, and the r and d expense line went down. That’s how to think about those two.

Andrew Cooper, Raymond James Analyst, Raymond James: Perfect. And one of the questions we get and and just kind of would love to give you the the venue to address a little bit is the customer concentration one. I’m sure you get it in a lot of of meetings as well. You know, help frame that for us. We know how big the the top customers are overall, but how many projects and and maybe what’s the biggest kind of single product or or bill of goods exposure for you when you think about that concentration risk in your brain?

Joe Dzic, CEO, Integer: Yep. This this is a common question. So our top three customers in alphabetical order, Abbott, Boston Scientific, Medtronic, they’re all all three of them are 10% or more sales, so we have to publicly disclose, those three. It’s about 47% of our sales in 2024. As a percent of sales, they look like they’re significant.

We we think that because we serve the whole industry, we think that’s representative of their position in the industry as the three biggest players in in medtech. Way to think about it is we have hundreds of different programs with each of those customers. We we serve each of those customers in the business unit and the markets that we serve. So we have relationships at the c suite and and at the corporate level, but the actual day to day decision making is made by their individual business units. So when you take any of those customers and you think about how they’re making decisions, they’re making decisions at a much more granular level.

And it’s engineer to engineer. It’s technology offering to what they need, and and it’s spread across many end markets. It’s spread across hundreds of different programs. And so although it looks like concentration, it’s actually very diversified. And and there’s there’s no single program that’s a meaningful driver of the entire company.

We’ve we’ve talked about that a lot, and I think that diversification is a strength of ours. Perfect.

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