GeneDx at TD Cowen Conference: Strategic Expansion in Genomics

GeneDx Holdings Corp (NASDAQ: WGS) presented at the TD Cowen 45th Annual Healthcare Conference on Tuesday, 04 March 2025, outlining ambitious plans for growth and innovation in genomic diagnostics. Led by CEO Catherine Stueland and CFO Kevin Feeley, the company emphasized its strategic focus on expanding its market presence and enhancing clinical outcomes, while also addressing competitive challenges.

Key Takeaways

• GeneDx projects full-year 2025 revenues between $350 million and $360 million, driven by a 30% increase in exome/genome volume.
• The company aims to dominate the NICU market with rapid whole genome sequencing, addressing a need for up to 250,000 tests annually.
• Strategic expansion into new markets, such as cerebral palsy and hearing loss, is planned for 2025.
• GeneDx leverages a vast data asset of 750,000 clinical exomes and genomes to differentiate itself in a competitive landscape.
• Medicaid coverage is expanding, with 14 states covering rapid genome inpatient testing and 32 states covering outpatient testing.

Financial Results

• GeneDx forecasts 2025 revenues between $350 million and $360 million, with at least 30% growth in exome/genome volume and revenues.
• The company expects profitability each quarter, with stronger performance anticipated in the second half of the year due to seasonal factors and NICU growth.
• The financial outlook assumes a flat average reimbursement rate, with ongoing efforts to increase Medicaid coverage.

Operational Updates

• Expansion in NICUs is a priority, with fewer than 5% of babies currently receiving genetic testing. GeneDx aims to increase testing in level three and four NICUs, supported by the Epic Aura integration and a two-day ultra-rapid turnaround time.
• In the outpatient setting, GeneDx is exploring opportunities in cerebral palsy and hearing loss, with plans to introduce additional indications.
• The company differentiates itself through its data asset and the use of AI and machine learning to reduce costs and improve turnaround times.

Future Outlook

• Growth is expected from the NICU sector, with significant ramp-up in the latter half of 2025.
• New market expansions, including cerebral palsy and hearing loss, are anticipated to yield additional testing opportunities.
• GeneDx plans to expand beyond pediatric markets into preventative uses, aiming to shorten the diagnostic odyssey for families.

Q&A Highlights

• GeneDx’s extensive data asset is crucial for ensuring high diagnostic yield and reducing variants of unknown significance.
• The company is contracted with over 80% of commercial lives in the U.S., focusing on clinical utility and actionable results for payers.
• Emphasis is placed on areas with established clinical care plans following diagnosis.

For more detailed insights, readers are encouraged to refer to the full transcript below.

Full transcript - TD Cowen 45th Annual Healthcare Conference:

Dan Brennan, Lead Analyst, TD Cowan: Good afternoon. Dan Brennan from the TD Cowan Tools and Diagnostics team here, Lead Analyst, and really glad to be here on the second day of the conference. With me on stage is the senior management team at GeneDx. We have Catherine Stuhl into my immediate left my right, excuse me, CEO and Kevin Feeley to her right, who’s chief financial officer. Welcome.

Catherine Stueland, CEO, GeneDx: Thank you so much for having us.

Dan Brennan, Lead Analyst, TD Cowan: For sure. Thanks for being here. You know, terrific 2024 by the company, really explosive growth, yet we’re still standing at maybe 10% or so penetration of pediatric neurologists for your targeted indication. So really large market ahead. Maybe just to kick it off, just set the table on maybe the key initiatives in the coming year, you know, after a really blockbuster 2024, kind of, you know, how do you follow on that and, you know, how do you move penetration up from where we are today to something meaningfully higher?

Catherine Stueland, CEO, GeneDx: Certainly. Well, I think it’s helpful to to think about the fact that, GeneDx who provides exome sequencing, genome sequencing, we’re diagnosing, children with rare diseases today, aiming to diagnose any genetic disease as early as possible. We’re in a really rare position where, our testing provides better clinical decision making so we can improve clinical outcomes and clinical care for children with rare diseases. And we’re actually also providing a really important service to the health care system. There’s about a trillion dollars of an economic burden, to The US health care system as it pertains to rare disease.

The underutilizing of testing of our services contributes to that. So being able to actually utilize our services will help the healthcare system save money. So we’re in a very unique position where we’re just getting started with introducing our services beyond the core genetics expert segment into the pediatric neurologists. As you said, we’re only about thirteen percent penetrated there by way of patients. And so our commercial engine is just getting started in terms of being able to have an impact in the outpatient setting.

To to layer in growth this year though, the NICU setting and being able to provide rapid whole genome sequencing now as soon as forty eight hours in that setting made possible by our integrations with EpicAura really changes the game in terms of us being able to provide meaningful growth to a broader number of families.

Dan Brennan, Lead Analyst, TD Cowan: Terrific. So Kevin, you’ve given us some really helpful yardsticks in the past about like some key anchors in the model maybe about how things can move forward. You talked about exo mix increasing maybe 2% to 3% a year. You talked about the business can reach cash flow breakeven at 40% exo mix. Obviously, we’re kind of really good cash flow dynamics in 2024.

Maybe just some fresh perspectives on those metrics or maybe some other anchors that investors should think about as they try to forecast out the opportunity for GeneDx?

Kevin Feeley, CFO, GeneDx: Yes, thanks. So we guided to full year 2025 revenues between $350,000,000 and $360,000,000 underpinning that 30% or higher growth in terms of Exome Genome volume and revenues. At the same time, we’ll be throughout the year introducing new indications, new use points for Exome and Genome that will fuel a high level of revenue growth. But we want to do so in a responsible way, and so we’ll be targeting areas where we think we’ll be able to drive high reimbursement, get paid fairly for our services. Ultimately, expecting to keep the business profitable.

There are certain areas in particular that we think could accelerate the adoption and growth curve for ExoMaginome. We have our eye on that, but want to do so with a commitment to keep the company in the black in terms of profitable in each quarter of the year and for the full year of 2025.

Dan Brennan, Lead Analyst, TD Cowan: So I wanted to ask a high level question about the kind of competitive mode as maybe others look to enter given your performance. But maybe Kevin, since you brought up the guide, maybe you can unpack it a little bit more just in terms of any penetration metrics or other factors that could help us think through kind of what underpins that kind of volume and revenue growth for 2025? Do you want to break volume and price and any other factor?

Kevin Feeley, CFO, GeneDx: Yes. The way first I would look at cadence, the second half of the year will be stronger than the first overall. If you look at seasonality in the business, Q4 is typically seasonally strongest, Q1 seasonally weakest just due to timing of patients getting into physicians offices at the end of the year before co pays deductibles reset on them. I think what I want to see is strong growth coming out of the NICU that’s starting almost a growth curve at zero and ramping in the third quarter into the fourth. We just went live about ten days ago with a new EMR capability.

We launched Epic Aura. That’s on the heels of improvements in our genome product. We launched a buccal swab for a baby in the NICU. On the whole genome product, we announced a two day ultra rapid turnaround time in the NICU just last week. The culmination of all that will drive the NICU business.

That’s really a second half of the year growth story for us. And so throughout the year, we’ll be keeping an eye on overall growth within the NICU. And then in terms of our overriding guidance philosophy, it tends to be line of sight in all things, including reimbursement levels, continually excited by our team’s ability to drive down denial rate that’s led to a pretty steady increase in average reimbursement rate throughout 2024. I expect that to continue from a guidance perspective, tend tend to take a conservative view on waiting to see data compile to be able to rely on those higher rates. But absolutely, I think the team can continually drive down denials and improve average reimbursement rate throughout the year.

Dan Brennan, Lead Analyst, TD Cowan: So how do we think about the competitive environment? You’ve got 80% plus, I mean, you can tell us a number share of the market. You know, Baylor, Rady’s are a few of the ones that come up. Tempest buying Amory, you know, I’m sure many people in the sector have seen the success you’ve had in 2023 and 2024, and there might be a bigger spotlight. So just walk through what you expect from a competitive dynamic and how do you defend against that?

Catherine Stueland, CEO, GeneDx: Absolutely. You know, I think to your point, we are the leader in the exome and genome sequencing. Eighty percent of that market has come through us and competition is not new to us. There have been exomes on the market. There are genomes on the market.

But I think it’s important to know that there’s a reason that eight out of 10 genetics experts rely on us, and it’s because of the accuracy of the information that we’re providing. So underpinning our every single test result, is a data asset that is comprised of 750,000 clinical exomes and genomes, all of which have been enriched for rare disease. Sixty percent of the time, we’re running, mom and dad, so we have comparator samples in that as well. And we also started investing ahead of state by state Medicaid coverage. So we happen to have a data asset that is very reflective of The US population.

It’s it’s a diverse data asset. So the the underpinning of the genotypic side of that data asset is a very unique, and bespoke, set of data that we’ve been able to amass over the course of about, a decade. It is complemented by more than 6,000,000 phenotypic data points. So think about all of the information that we’re able to gather through clinic notes and other information, EMR related information as, an order comes in. And it’s the totality of both of those datasets coming together that ensures that we have the most robust, clinical context to be able to upgrade or downgrade a variant of unknown significance more rapidly than other labs.

So we’re able to get to a 90% confidence interval faster to be able to ensure that the diagnostic yield is higher. We have fewer variants of unknown significance. And so that data asset is what sets us apart. As I said, there’s other exomes and and genomes on the market. We do see Baylor Genetics as as a good competitor.

We think all of these players are actually really important in terms of accelerating utilization in the marketplace, but competition’s nothing new. What we have learned, is that data asset really does set our, our tests apart. So if somebody tries a different exome or genome, they typically come back to us. We also have built, beyond the clinical excellence and the quality and accuracy, we’ve also built, the the scale. And so we’re able to drive down our turnaround times, drive down our cost of goods.

We’re deploying AI, machine learning, and other automation, technologies to be able to to bring down the cost of goods. So we can make sure that we are always in the leader position to be able to never get undercut on price as well. So, we have all of the ingredients that we need to continue to keep, ourselves in the leadership position, opening up new markets, continuing to grow and accelerate the adoption of exome and genome testing. And importantly, all of us together are trying to put an end to this diagnostic odyssey, which remains a five year ordeal for these families. We can do it within forty eight hours, within days, within weeks today.

There’s no reason that a family should have to go through that.

Dan Brennan, Lead Analyst, TD Cowan: Okay. Just one quick one on the turnaround time. So, you know, Roche is planning to come to market in the next year or two, big diagnostic player. Their claim here is fast turnaround time. How much is turnaround time to differentiate us such that if they do have a clinical rate ready box in, let’s say, eighteen months, could that sway any of the hospitals say, hey, we want to adopt this ourselves and do it?

Or the other factors just too important in the grand scheme, your database, maybe billing, you know, whatever else might be. Maybe just speak to that turnaround time issue and whether or not that’s something we should think about.

Catherine Stueland, CEO, GeneDx: We love better, faster, cheaper turnaround or better, faster, cheaper sequencers. And we think that if that is in our lab or if it’s in a hospital lab, we can actually be the interpretation layer. So we think that that’s actually a wonderful addition in terms of being able to ensure that there’s broader utilization of this information. But, our interpretation platform is one that we wanna be able to provide as a service to any health system, any country outside The US. So we see a world where centralized labs, we’re gonna continue to be the best and the fastest and the most affordable, not to mention the most accurate in terms of the the central strategy.

But as we see sequencing going to a decentralized approach, it’s our interpretation platform where we can bring, the eight the 750,000, clinical exomes in that data asset. We can bring it in a decentralized way in the future to be able to to layer that on to to sequencers like Roche’s.

Kevin Feeley, CFO, GeneDx: Okay. And I would just add that the differentiated analysis and interpretation platform and capability is agnostic to the sequencer manufacturer.

Dan Brennan, Lead Analyst, TD Cowan: So maybe on the inpatient starting off there, can you just, you know, a very low percentage of babies I think are receiving genetic testing in the NICU today. So do you think that’s more so from reimbursement? Is it patient? Is it doctor education? Just kind of walk through that aspect A.

And then B, Kevin, within your guide for the year in Katherine, I think you’ve talked about kind of the split between outpatient, inpatient where we are today, maybe ninetyten or just remind me the number. But like where do you expect that goes to by year end? I know you’re only going to have the EMR delays in the second half, but how quickly can you see that start to ramp?

Catherine Stueland, CEO, GeneDx: Yeah. The NICU, the inpatient opportunity, once again, is, woefully underserved today. So fewer than five percent of babies in the NICU get a genetic test. And so our mission is to go in and make sure that particularly in the level three and level four NICUs, we’re able to make it as easy as possible for us to get a genetic diagnosis. A recent study just showed that about sixty percent of children of babies in the the NICU at level three, level four, would benefit from a whole genome sequencing.

So what we learned was you need a few things in order to win in that market. One, you have to be where the baby is and where the the clinician is, and that’s right at the bedside. And so the Epic Aura investment that we’ve that we’ve made to be able to place our testing at that bedside opens up the the NICU opportunity in a really meaningful way. It keeps us in their workflow versus, them having to step out of their workflow into the hallway logging into to a several laptop. So we’re now embedded, clearly in that workflow starting with University of North Carolina and expanding throughout the course of the year.

You also need to have fast turnaround times. Our 48 ultra rapid gives us the ability to to turn to turn around our results quickly. And then you also need a a cheek swab. So we we put some product improvements into place to ensure that our team has everything that they need. They brought to us a pipeline of health systems and business that convinced us that it was the right thing to do.

And so now we get to bring the cost savings to these hospitals, in addition to to the better clinical care. So we’re excited about our ability to take that number from fewer than five percent to be able to make sure that these families can have the information that they need as soon as possible.

Kevin Feeley, CFO, GeneDx: Ultimately, we see in The US, the need for about 225,000 to 250,000 tests a year in the NICU. Just looking at level three and level four NICUs and then an assumption how often beds turn around and with about a 50% or so need to intervene with a rapid genome upon a means to those NICUs. That’s the case we’re bringing to the market now. We’ve introduced a whole number of product enhancements this year. Dan, in terms of the guide, you’re talking a few thousand tests in the back half of the year with 26 being when we’d expect to reach sort of escape philosophy.

It’s our intention to dominate that market, but we’re putting into place the pieces now, including an expanded enterprise sales team to begin C suite education with respect to not just the clinical benefit, but the health economic benefit that is a longer sales cycle. And so I want to be careful in terms of what we promise here in terms of ’25 impact. It will be an important growth driver in ’25, but will extend well beyond that with a long term growth trajectory as we fill out that market of what’s nearly a quarter million tests that need to be run to service these kids in the NICU.

Dan Brennan, Lead Analyst, TD Cowan: And kind of above that 250,000 plus or minus, what Medicaid coverage in place for how many of those? How many states have that? What’s the latest number?

Kevin Feeley, CFO, GeneDx: There’s 14 states that cover the use of rapid genome inpatient and 32 for exome and genome outpatient. It’s taken us only a few years to get there. I’ve been with the company eight years at GeneDx. When I started there were zero states covering these tests. So tremendous progress has been made, all hard fought wins at the individual state level.

But there’s still a long way to go to move from 32 to 50 plus Medicaid programs. Over time, We’d expect to see a natural progression of a few states a year, many states picking up biomarker bills and moving through the process. But it is a long and arduous process, but one that ultimately we think can not just fill an unmet medical need, but save the healthcare system, state and federal government a lot of dollars by moving into a genomics first approach.

Dan Brennan, Lead Analyst, TD Cowan: And in terms of the commercial that’s largely all, so Medicaid covers it what the hospital would just build directly as opposed to be part of the DRG. Just walk through like the billing on the inpatient and are all two hundred and fifty thousand of those infants going to be kind of targetable given where coverage is today or you need something to change?

Kevin Feeley, CFO, GeneDx: Yes, in the NICU in particular inpatient predominantly institutional sale. So the hospital being reimbursed via the DRG and then using those DRG dollars to make decisions on where they want to allocate those resources and paying us directly for a test. So 100% collectible with the insurance risk they’re sitting with the hospital in order to use those DRG dollars most efficiently.

Dan Brennan, Lead Analyst, TD Cowan: And do you find there’s a tremendous pull from hospitals to want to do this now that you’ve got EPIC and you have the cheek swab? Or is there still a lot of pushback, just maybe the utility, they don’t see it or the cost to do it isn’t kinda worth it from their perspective?

Catherine Stueland, CEO, GeneDx: The the interest is there, and and the logic is there. The data are there to to prove it. So, it really became a workflow side of things and we’ve solved for that. So there’s strong demand, and we’re excited to be able to pull that through this year.

Dan Brennan, Lead Analyst, TD Cowan: And then kind of moving maybe to the outpatient, I think you had an announcement today on cerebral palsy. Maybe just speak to kind of where we are in the outpatient penetration. Kevin and I, you’ve worked with us trying to help size this market. We can look at single gene test as a kind of switch over. You can look at maybe incidence, but maybe start with the cerebral palsy announcement today and kind of what that means and then zoom out to like the overall opportunity in outpatient.

Catherine Stueland, CEO, GeneDx: So as as we looked at growth for the year, so we’ve got it to to more than 30% volume and and revenue growth. What we wanna be able to do is continue to invest in market development. We know that testing is underutilized across any number of conditions. There’s seven thousand rare diseases in totality. Last year, we focused on epilepsy, autism, developmental delay.

What we’re starting to layer on are additional patient populations where there is a path to reimbursement, where our exome has been shown through some of the research that we’ve done to be able to have a high diagnostic yield. Cerebral palsy is one of those conditions where we believe that that there’s really good merits in terms of moving from multi gene panels to an exome in that outpatient setting. There’s more than thirty percent diagnostic yield for patients in that population using exome testing. So, the the tried and true reality of of genetic testing, the more that you test, the more that you find that there’s a higher prevalence rate. And so we want to continue to to build those markets.

So CP is one that we announced today. As I said, there’s a 30% diagnostic yield from, from our own research that we’ve published. We’ll continue to layer on additional indications, so think about hearing loss. What is wonderful about the overall approach that we’ve been able to take, there’s not a requirement to add any content to our core technology. It is all there embedded in our exome and genome.

So it’s more about making sure that, we’re turning our commercial team’s attention to that, that we’re educating the market. It’s the same call point. But I think what’s really important, we could turn on volume today, and grow like gangbusters. But we wanna make sure that we’re balancing that with being able to be paid for our services. So, we’re being very deliberate about the indications that we’re going after to ensure that there’s a path to reimbursement there, but all the content is already there.

It’s just turning our attention to that, driving utilization and then being able to build the case with payers and ensuring that we can pull that through on the reimbursement side of things.

Dan Brennan, Lead Analyst, TD Cowan: And Mike, I know you talked about this on the call a little bit, but between hearing loss and cerebral palsy, do you expect a meaningful volume bump this year?

Kevin Feeley, CFO, GeneDx: That’s probably worth a few thousand tests in the second half of the year. I think we want to learn as we enter into some of these new markets and go through education, just how quickly we should run again balancing, what is demand out there for a better mousetrap to replace individual gene tests and smaller gene panels with exome and genome with ensuring that we have clarity of a pathway to being reimbursed. So want to see some of that adjudication experience come back first from payers and then decide how quickly we run after that.

Dan Brennan, Lead Analyst, TD Cowan: And between autism, epilepsy and developmental delay, are any one of those, again, they’re all tested, but is there any one of those for some reason more of an opportunity to see greater penetration? It’s the same exome being around. I’m just wondering between your three main kind

Catherine Stueland, CEO, GeneDx: of indications. They are all important. And I think that part of the the the wisdom of this is making sure that we are not becoming an epilepsy company or an autism company or even for that matter, a pediatric company. This is about a future where we’re diagnosing any genetic disease as early as possible. Part of what drives the decision making in terms of our market expansion, is in part reimbursement, of course, patient populations, but there’s also the biopharma side of things and being able to connect patients with, what clinical trials may be available to them, FDA approved therapies, other sorts of therapeutic interventions, especially as we start thinking about using this information more proactively.

So think about newborn screening, clinically actionable conditions are incredibly important for us as we think about prioritization.

Dan Brennan, Lead Analyst, TD Cowan: When you think about the outpatient volume growth, like, how did that how did that, flow in 2024? And you’re not going to probably give me a distinct number, but how do you think about, like, what’s what’s kind of implied in the growth for 2025? And, you know what are kind of the you know the puts and takes on if you were to do better or worse than that?

Kevin Feeley, CFO, GeneDx: Yeah. I mean, so the aggregate of 30% or higher would pull in sort of continually farming that outpatient opportunity in that Pete Neuro call point. I don’t want to completely discount even within the core of expert geneticists. I think we’re fully saturated. There’s not a, I believe, expert geneticists in The United States or around the globe who’s never heard of GDX, but there’s still conversion opportunities from legacy gene tests and gene panels.

In the fourth quarter, ’30 ’8 percent of all tests run at GeneDx were exome and genome. Do we believe one day we get that number to 100%? Absolutely. So there is still going to be a lot of ground to cover in that core of expert geneticists in continually forming the neuro space, then eventually layering on the NICU and some of these other growth layers. I think if you look at the outpatient population in particular across P neuro about thirteen percent penetrated, there’s no reason to think we can’t reproduce the same growth rate we saw from ’23 to ’24 into ’25.

From a guidance perspective, we tend to on the side of under promise, over deliver as an overarching philosophy. But I think we’ve never been more optimistic that we’ve got the team properly calibrated, resourced. We learned a lot of lessons, made a lot of mistakes over the past two years with respect to go to market approaches and all of that is now entering into the team’s tactical plans for ’twenty five and beyond.

Dan Brennan, Lead Analyst, TD Cowan: Great. So maybe you talk about pricing. You’ve done a terrific job. You talked about it a few times on this call already. Kind of I think you’ve baked in, I think like flattish realized price from Q4.

So maybe just elaborate a little on what’s implied and then just speak to prior period collections have been a consistent good guy for the company. Do those just give us a sense on commercial too. You had that one customer in Q4 that was a notable collection. Just any color on how we think about the commercial opportunities we move forward for better pricing?

Kevin Feeley, CFO, GeneDx: Yeah, I mean, the guide assumes a flat average reimbursement rate, therefore, no further improvements and denials. Do we think we can beat that? Yes, we think we can beat that. There’s an inherent complexity in the insurance adjudication process, so we’d like to see improvements in the rate materialize in data before we promise them and signal them in the future. We’re still at a position where roughly 50% of all tests are being paid and therefore 50% being denied.

We certainly believe that there’s room to improve on that. There’s a team of people well skilled within the company who wake up every day trying to do just that. From a guidance perspective, I want to lean towards line of sight. One area of maybe major conservatism, but I think appropriately so is those 32 states that cover the test and 14 that cover inpatient. Do I think more states will come online with an evolution of policy to cover exome and genome in 2025 and beyond?

Yes. But from a guidance perspective, tend to leave those as uplift. We supply a lot of data, we perform a lot of advocacy, but tend to layer those onto projections once those states pick up policy coverage. So it’s just one example of overall conservatism that we’d like to anchor to. Great.

So

Dan Brennan, Lead Analyst, TD Cowan: I’m a minute I got to try to sneak in two questions. One is this on utility. So diagnostic yield for sure you find it faster. In what percent of those cases do you actually have an impact on care? And then related to that, like how does that influence or not commercial coverage?

You talked about, you know, this 50% payment rates going up, but the commercial cut insurers mostly cover the testing of contracts, and it’s more just the ability to get them on the right paper. Just maybe speak to those two factors.

Catherine Stueland, CEO, GeneDx: Yeah. Clinical utility and ability is top of mind for payers for sure. So the diagnostic yields that we’re finding 40% plus or minus on the genome side, 30% plus or minus on the exome side. The conditions that we are testing for generally there is a clinical care plan that follows. So we’re focused in the right areas that ensure that payers see that clinical actionability.

Dan Brennan, Lead Analyst, TD Cowan: And then Kevin, just wrapping up just in terms of commercial coverage, just remind us like is the opportunity more to get more commercial insurers to say we believe in this and we’re going to cover it or is it they recover it and then just making sure you’re getting paid?

Kevin Feeley, CFO, GeneDx: We’re contracted in network with over 80% of commercial lives in The U. S. It’s more so incumbent on us to make sure that across a payer universe of 1,000 payers, we’re matching individual procedural administrative requirements one by one, payer by payer. That has paid dividends and we’ll continue to do that work.

Dan Brennan, Lead Analyst, TD Cowan: So Catherine, just wrapping up, next few years kind of a lot of interesting growth initiatives and opportunities ahead and the stocks done well. But what are people missing or what kind of excites you maybe that people aren’t maybe thinking about enough?

Catherine Stueland, CEO, GeneDx: I think that the open landscape of patients that we have the opportunity to help, there’s no reason that these families should be going on a five year diagnostic odyssey. It is it’s a game changer to be able to to cut that off. That’s our goal, and we think that the the future of being able to do this across children, across adults, and getting into a place of using it preventively is exactly where we’re in the position to be able to drive towards.

Dan Brennan, Lead Analyst, TD Cowan: Great. Well, thank you both for being here. Thanks, everyone, for participating in the audience. Thank you.

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