Thryv Holdings at 45th Annual William Blair Conference: SaaS Ambitions Amid Challenges

On Tuesday, June 3, 2025, Thryv Holdings Inc. (NASDAQ:THRY) presented at the 45th Annual William Blair Growth Stock Conference. CEO Joe Walsh outlined the company’s strategic transition from a traditional yellow pages business to a software-as-a-service (SaaS) provider. Despite acknowledging challenges with stock performance, Walsh emphasized Thryv’s growth potential and its goal to become a billion-dollar SaaS business by the end of the decade.

Key Takeaways

• Thryv is transitioning from yellow pages to a SaaS model, aiming for significant growth.
• The acquisition of Keep is pivotal, offering a strong engineering team and partner channels.
• Financial metrics include a 50% growth rate, 73% gross margin, and $4,000 ARPU.
• The legacy yellow pages business will continue until the end of 2028.
• The company projects $600 million in cash generation by the decade’s end, split between SaaS and print.

Financial Results

• Overall growth is reported at 50%, bolstered by the Keep acquisition.
• Subscriber growth reached 59%, with an ARPU of $4,000, aiming for $8,000 by decade’s end.
• Gross margin stands at 73%, with net revenue retention improving to 103%.
• The yellow pages segment is expected to generate $250 million to $300 million in cash through 2028.
• Thryv paid $80 million for Keep, which had $82 million in revenue last year.

Operational Updates

• Thryv has successfully transitioned more revenue from software than its legacy business.
• The acquisition of Keep brought a 100-person engineering team and over six million lines of code.
• The company focuses on verticalization and custom automations using Keep’s capabilities.
• Changes in sales incentives aim to boost sales to larger businesses and bigger deals.

Future Outlook

• By 2025, Thryv plans to expand its product offerings for its salesforce.
• More than half of EBITDA is expected to come from SaaS by 2026.
• The company aims to return to overall growth by 2027, with the yellow pages business ending in 2028.
• In 2025, Thryv will focus on efficient customer acquisition and increasing ARPU.
• The second half of 2025 may see excess cash, potentially used for share buybacks.

Q&A Highlights

• Thryv’s typical customers are service-based SMBs, with a growing SaaS adoption trend.
• Marketing Center outperforms Business Center due to easier sales and instant ROI.
• The acquisition of Keep is seen as beneficial for cross-selling opportunities.
• Future plans may include share buybacks and increased marketing investment.

For a detailed understanding, readers are encouraged to refer to the full transcript provided below.

Full transcript - 45th Annual William Blair Growth Stock Conference:

Arjun Bhatia, Analyst, William Blair: Alright. Why don’t we go ahead and get started? Thanks, everyone, for joining. My name is Arjun Bhatia. For those of you that don’t know me, I’m the analyst here at William Blair that covers Thrive.

For full list of disclosures, you can go to williamblair.com. We have Joe Walsh, the CEO of Thrive here. Thanks, Joe, for coming.

Joe Walsh, CEO, Thrive: Glad to be here.

Arjun Bhatia, Analyst, William Blair: Really interesting business. Joe will give a little bit of a presentation to go through some of the basics of the business, explain the growth drivers. Very interesting company, but we’ll have some time at the end for Q and A. So without further ado, Joe, I will hand off to you.

Joe Walsh, CEO, Thrive: Thank you. Thank Arjun. Appreciate it. Thank you very much. So, Thrive is a really interesting business.

It’s a business that is in transition. It is a the old yellow pages business from 1886, you know, a 40 year old company and we’ve taken those assets and used that customer base and those relationships when no one really valued and we’ve pivoted those to a small business SaaS offering. And we’ve had a tremendous amount of success. We have a hundred thousand customers already on the software platform using it. There’s good engagement, good growth and we’re now building that platform out.

It’s a terrible stock. I’ll just tell you now, it’s a terrible stock. It shouldn’t have been public yet. It was put public in a direct listing and it’s kind of two different stories that the algos and the markets don’t understand. It requires a bright person to dig in and do some work.

I’m going to quickly explain to you what we do. We market, sell, grow is what our software is all about. So, we help a small business build their list, get found, find new people that would want to buy what they do. And now with our key acquisition, we’ve got tools to nurture those customers, bring them down the funnel and when they convert and they buy follow-up and get repeat business from them. It’s a complete and powerful software tool that that manages that full pipeline.

And then with Keep, we we acquired a business that had been in business for more than two decades. Other folks had invested 175,000,000 of investment capital. It was once a unicorn, it was an amazing business but it had faltered and that it wasn’t growing at the top line. They made some strategy changes inside that just didn’t work out. We were able to pick up with Keep and a very powerful partner channel that will help us take our products to market both here in The US and internationally.

We were able to pick up 100 person engineering and product team. We were to pick up more than 6,000,000 lines of proven code that disease very powerful automations that were built are elegant and very, very good. They had a terrible marketing plan. They were all over the place. There was lots of stuff they were doing wrong.

We didn’t keep any of the management that was doing that. We basically just plugged those three big things into what we’re doing. We picked up a bunch of good people too that have that have come in. So, it’s been an incredible acquisition. It’s still early days but it will be end up being transformative for us and really really helpful.

Our product roadmap has been building out over the last I’ve been running the company for eleven years. We came out initially with Business Center. We later added Marketing Center. We now are getting the platform really built out with command center, the Keap automations, reporting center and soon to be workforce center. We’ve also rolled out some add ons that sit around those.

So, the Thrive Salesforce today in early twenty twenty five has a lot more product to sell than they would have this time last year. So, our AVO is up, our average order value is up, our sales volume is up, our sales per business advisor are up. We put in some powerful sales automations that are driving more pinpoint targeting and better messaging to larger businesses. So, things are really moving along nicely for the company. We are coming up quickly on some key inflection points.

One we’ve already passed. When when Joe will more of your revenue be from software than is from the old business? Well, we passed that at the end of last year. Well, when Joe will more than half your EBITDA come from SaaS? And the answer is in ’26.

Well, when will you return to growth as an overall business in ’27? And it’s been a long journey. It was a gigantic business, kind of melting iceberg business. It’s not shrinking from a mistake. You know, yellow pages have been disrupted and that process was going to happen with or without us.

We’ve taken these assets and repurposed that customer relationship for something super valuable and it’s working out really, really well. Great company, great execution, crappy stuff. So, where are we now? Well, we’ll see. We’ll see what you do.

We’re coming out of the room today. So, what’s left in the printed Yellow Pages business? We’re ending that business at the end of twenty twenty eight. The way we publish the directories now, they publish and then we build them out over the next twenty four months. So, the cash flow from that business will run out through the end of the decade.

We project between $250,000,000 and $300,000,000 of cash will come out of that print Yellow Pages business. Coincidentally, the business has $290,000,000 or so of net debt on it. So, roughly a cancellation of debt. What we’ll have by the end of the decade is a billion dollar SaaS business. It’s growing fast.

The market that we have been trying to build is now happening. Small businesses are actually adopting cloud tools. They’re actually moving to these things now. So, timing is good for us all to be having this conversation. You’re not early, you’re right on time.

I think that’s it. Alright. Actually, have some numbers. So, you guys can get the numbers anywhere. These are the numbers, you know, most recent quarterly numbers.

50% growth is obviously flattered by the acquisition of Keep, but the organic growth is still very strong. 59% sub growth. Our ARPU is currently at about $4,000 a year. We believe we can move that to $8,000 a year by the end of decade just by building out or completing the platform with our customers, that process. Gross margin, 73%.

Our net revenue retention of 103 is up from low 90s a year or so ago. So, that’s very strong. So, I think Arjun, I’m at the end.

Arjun Bhatia, Analyst, William Blair: All right. Perfect. Yeah. So, we can jump into Q and A. Maybe the first place to start would be the market that you play in.

I’d love to hear a little bit more about it. What sorts of SMB customers are you serving? And maybe talk about how that interplays with the legacy business that you’ve been operating in for a very long time for Thrive as a company.

Joe Walsh, CEO, Thrive: Yeah, mean if you think about the yellow pages, these are the old line, old established businesses in your town. So the old line, you know, HVAC, moving and storage company, the funeral home down the street, these businesses, they’ve been around for years and years and years. These tend to be the Yellow Pages customers. Newly started businesses, businesses run by 30 year olds typically aren’t buying Yellow Pages. So, these are our average customer has been with us for fifteen years on average across the 250,000 customers or so.

They tend to be service based businesses. So, they fix things that are broken. You know, you walk into your house and it’s ice cold and the boiler crapped out, you’re not just going to live in a cold house, you’re going to call somebody and get it fixed. You crack your tooth, you’re going to go get it fixed. You know, these are our customers.

We don’t really have manufacturing. We don’t really have any fine dining or high end entertainment. We don’t sell any little blue boxes. There’s no high end retail. So it’s not very economically sensitive.

It tends to be the people that fix broken stuff and and and keep our lives moving along. This is our main customer base. When we bought Keep, Keep brought us 15,000 new customers. They tend to be more internet businesses, more online businesses, more more international businesses, more no geography where we’ve got people with trucks and offices and like businesses.

Arjun Bhatia, Analyst, William Blair: When, like, these, you know, there’s always this kind of interesting debate about how do small businesses use software, what were they using before Thrive, and, you know, we like, when you’re thinking of attacking this market and and getting more customers on board, what gives you confidence that they’re ready now to adopt a solution like Thrive?

Joe Walsh, CEO, Thrive: Some are not. Yeah. Small businesses, I’m talking very small businesses. These are five employee, 10 employee, very small businesses are just now beginning to move to the cloud. And, you know, a large percentage of those businesses are owned by baby boomers.

And these baby boomers are reaching retirement age. Some 10,000 a day turn 65. That process is playing out right now and they are beginning to think about options. Can they get one of their kids in the business? Well, no, their kids hate them, they’re not gonna do that.

So, can they get the manager to buy them out? Is there a nephew or somebody who can come in? And so, this process of figuring out how to hand the business to the next generation is really waking up, accelerating this this SaaS adoption. There are sales calls. I’ve been on some of them myself where we go in and the parents are there and the 38 year old son is there and they’re arguing about whether or not they should modernize the business.

And the dad’s going, it’s been fine for me for years. And the kid’s saying, yeah, well grandpa left you this business. You’ve done nothing to expand it. I want to build it up but it’s got to be digitized. You know, and that argument’s playing out in front of me.

It’s really interesting to see but I think you’re gonna see an acceleration of adoption as these people who just aren’t willing to do it step aside and hand it over to that next gen person who expects a more of a digital life.

Arjun Bhatia, Analyst, William Blair: Yeah. And it was interesting one of the slides you had up there. Right? Because I think over the last maybe two years or so, three years, the platform has expanded quite a bit. You had you started marketing center.

You have business center now. You’re launching a few more products. When you’re going to these customers and we’re at this kind of generational tipping point, what are you telling them? Like, here’s here’s the product that you need from Thrive to help you do to help you grow, to help you run your business. Which which product is it?

Joe Walsh, CEO, Thrive: Well, our our first entree into the market was CRM kind of run your business tool. Right? It it allows you to have a scheduler and and appointment reminders and we do estimates, invoices, billing. It kind of changed their business process. It turns out that that’s hard to get somebody to change their business process.

It requires a lot. It’s, you know, it’s a lot of work to do for them and for us. And then our second product that we rolled out was marketing center, which is software designed to help you find more customers, and then prove to you where they’re coming from. That turns out is a hell of a lot easier to sell. And so it doesn’t require anywhere near as hard an onboarding.

It doesn’t require as much follow ups. So, it’s an easier lift for us, easier lift from them. So, we have found with our marketing center software, it’s it’s now outselling business center by a lot to the point where we’ve now come back and come up with some add on products that sit around marketing center that sit on that platform. Those are selling like hotcakes as well. So, that’s really become the center place of our business and selling people growth, more leads, more customers, more form fills, filling their order book for the second half of this year seems to be more attractive than getting them to change their business process.

Yeah. Now, sometimes when we get them going with marketing center we’re able to then get into the other stuff. But we, it turns out, we’re going for the harder thing initially.

Arjun Bhatia, Analyst, William Blair: Yeah. And it’s like instant ROI, right? When you’re seeing, oh, I I adopted Thrive and my growth rate went from x to x and my business grew for the first time maybe in a while because it’s maybe a little bit more delayed and requires a little bit more upfront investment with Business Center with the process change we were talking about.

Joe Walsh, CEO, Thrive: We had a customer come on to my executive committee meeting just last week and she came in and she basically took us through what her experience with our marketing center product has been. And she said, I can show you it’s paid for itself with multiple returns every month since I’ve been on it. My business is is taking off. I’m telling my friends this is fabulous. You know, we we didn’t get that kind of instant reaction from business center unless they really got involved and really got going with it.

And so, marketing center has really been strong.

Arjun Bhatia, Analyst, William Blair: And then going back to kind of the core of the business and your your customers that you serve on the software side, you know, you’ve built this for a specific type of customer, right? It’s a small business, largely in home services. Do you consider yourself a vertical platform? Or what are the investments that you’re making in verticals? Because it seems like you have that sort of, at least product capabilities that it’s built specifically for this set of customers.

Joe Walsh, CEO, Thrive: Well, we we just we inherited from the old business relationships with all of these service businesses. And so, what we’re doing now is using Keep’s automations. Keep has these automations that help map out a process for a business. We’re working closely with particular verticals and building out custom automation so that we can then go into those verticals and say, look, one of the premier, you know, guys in your industry who’s somewhere across the country is using these and you can basically plug it in and you don’t have to design it, you don’t have to build it. This is kind of best practice.

And so, it’s more of a turnkey We’re gonna be moving very quickly to build those out in our most successful verticals and offer those.

Arjun Bhatia, Analyst, William Blair: So, keep sticking on keep then it gives you this sort of vertical angle where you’re pre building some of the automations for them and you can give this turnkey solution. And then it adds I think it augments your go to market motion because most of what you’ve been doing traditionally had been direct and Keep has a pretty big partner ecosystem. Talk about how that complements what Drive had built other

Joe Walsh, CEO, Thrive: Yeah. Just approached the market differently than we did. They had a small direct effort, but they were mostly partner. We were virtually all direct with a tiny partner channel that really wasn’t getting much traction. So with Keep, we got, you know, a leadership team and partner, a bunch of relationships, 800 certified partners who pay them annually to be a certified partner and represent them.

A whole partner ecosystem of people who do development and work with them. So, they’re super excited about getting the full Thrive catalog now to add. You know, had that funnel up there earlier. Keep was always the bottom of the funnel but if you wanted to build your list or or create a list or find people who wanted your product, Keep wasn’t for you. You you it was taking your list and nurturing it and helping you close those sales.

So now it sort of completes that whole process. Very interesting. They have all these influencers who have their own brand and their own thing, who who use who use Keap and and Keap basically sells from the stage with them in their big conferences that they run. They’ve got MSPs that sell for them. They’ve got local marketing agencies.

They have people who specialize in different verticals like maybe helping med spas get patients or helping dentists or, you know, helping particular verticals do their thing. So, it’s really opened up a new vista for us. And furthermore, it’s international. They’ve got well established partners in Australia and Vietnam and Italy, all over Europe that are touch points for Keap in those markets that are now going to be able to bring Thrive to those markets as well. So, we got a lot when we got that partner channel.

Arjun Bhatia, Analyst, William Blair: And is it is it is Keap as a product, is it monetized separately from marketing center and business center or how do you think about the actual what it can add to your revenue growth?

Joe Walsh, CEO, Thrive: I mean, it’s we view the whole thing as a product platform and we build a solution out of the stuff that you’re ready for, the stuff that you’re prioritizing and what you what you really want or what you really need. You know, it’s not a big secret. We paid $80,000,000 for Keap. And this was a unicorn. This is a company that had raised a lot of equity capital and sort of flamed out.

And so, it did have some problems. It’s top line revenue was declining. They were actually losing customers. And that didn’t stop just because we bought it. It was still trying to happen.

So, there is a very short term, you know, down the first couple of quarters. But our sales organization is super excited about having these automations to sell. And, you know, I think the cross sell will be very, very strong and, you know, late this year, ’26, I think it will be a growing and maybe even really fast growing part of our business. There was nothing at all wrong with the products they had built. It was all dysfunction in the way the company was operated.

And, you know, the investors changed strategies a couple times and then when their time started running out, just started harvesting. Yeah. And when we showed up at the partner channel, we’re like, bet you’re glad to see us. And they said, well, we are, but you know, we’ve been starved. We need investment.

We need stuff, you know, and they had a long list of demands which we’re quickly meeting and getting them going.

Arjun Bhatia, Analyst, William Blair: By the way, said you paid $80,000,000 for it. That’s rough, that was roughly about one times revenue?

Joe Walsh, CEO, Thrive: Yeah, they did $82,000,000 last year,

Arjun Bhatia, Analyst, William Blair: so

Joe Walsh, CEO, Thrive: one times revenue. And on a post synergy basis, it was less than five times EBITDA.

Arjun Bhatia, Analyst, William Blair: Yeah.

Joe Walsh, CEO, Thrive: So, was a pretty good one. And when we look at the replacement cost for those customers, you know, it was kind of below replacement cost.

Arjun Bhatia, Analyst, William Blair: And now just from going back to the growth question because you’re going be able to cross sell Thrive into Keeps customer base of about 15,000 and vice versa, right? Correct. And so just maybe you said it take a little bit time, but I’d be curious where you are just in terms of go to market adjustment to be able to do that cross sell and if there’s processes or change required?

Joe Walsh, CEO, Thrive: Yeah, mean there’s a bunch of things going on. You know, you guys know enough about software. It’s not instant when you buy a company. It all doesn’t work together. It takes a little bit of time.

So, we have a bundle now where you can get the Keap automations and our marketing center together. But there’s a sort of a disclosure in there that says, look, we just bought the company. So, you’re gonna get two bills and when you click around the different colors on the screen, we’ll get all that unified over the next year. If you want the benefits you can do it now and people are signing up for it. But we just rolled that out.

So, the sales are, you know, just getting started. And as far as, you know, Keep has inbound coming into their company all the time that say, look, it’s not really the automations I need. I need leads. Yeah. And so they’re then buying marketing center and that those sales have begun to happen as well.

The partners have some limited access to sell the Thrive catalog, but that will improve over the next couple of months as we make a couple of more development releases for Yeah.

Arjun Bhatia, Analyst, William Blair: But it fits in very nicely in terms of your full like, I’ll say revenue generation software for small businesses helps them grow where your marketing center does one thing and Keap does something complementary.

Joe Walsh, CEO, Thrive: It’s the funnel we should. Marketing center is the top of the funnel, Keap’s the bottom.

Arjun Bhatia, Analyst, William Blair: Perfect. Okay. And then just maybe zooming out beyond Keep, when you think about Thrive’s software growth, you’ve clearly had some pretty healthy growth rates. As you think ahead, how much of this year your future growth is going to come from new customer acquisition because we know there’s a lot of new customers that you can go get in the SMB software market versus upsell and cross sell amongst your existing base now that your platform has actually brought in quite a bit over the last few years?

Joe Walsh, CEO, Thrive: Yeah. I I the the the most gratifying source of customers for us is referrals and we get a ton. We we have installed base of over a hundred thousand and they’re bringing their friends. So we every Monday morning, you know, the inbox is you gotta come talk to my friend. I talked to him over the weekend.

You gotta talk to him. So, we get a lot of referrals. That’s pretty low cost of acquisition because they’re pretty pre sold by the time we go out there. That’s really good. We obviously are calling on the marketing services base, converting them, moving them over, so that’s an ongoing motion as well.

The thing that we’re not doing in 2025 is investing in marketing. This if you’ve followed any of our Investor Day materials, we talked about this being kind of the pinch point year for us. It was specifically the first half of this year. And so we have we’re not really doing any marketing. Even basic marketing you should be doing, we’re not doing.

We’re really in a you know, we need really efficient customer acquisitions this year. In ’26, we’ll kind of get back on the front foot and be out there doing more. But it’s a fast growing market for what we do. We just aren’t doing any marketing to go out there and do that. So, this will be a year without big we made huge strides last year.

This will not be a big year of new customer adds. This will be a year of expanding their spend. So I mentioned 4,000 to 8,000. We’ll make a nice chunk toward that this year now that we have the platform more built out.

Arjun Bhatia, Analyst, William Blair: And I think to maybe facilitate that, you’ve made some incentive changes in your sales force and how sales reps are comped. Can you talk a little bit about the changes you were making there and how you think it might fuel this ACV expansion that we’re talking about?

Joe Walsh, CEO, Thrive: It’s going to. I mean, we’re seeing I have we’re halfway through the year now. I have a lot of information. We’re selling larger businesses and we’re selling bigger. And we’re doing that with a combination of more products to sell.

And we tweak the incentive system so reps are really incented to sell bigger businesses and sell bigger. And then we have altered the technology that they work on. The sales platform that they work on is guiding them when they open up in the morning. They’ve got to close out certain calls. They’re being sent to the bigger businesses with a bigger recommendation and they have to close those out as a part of their day.

So, we really have control over what they’re doing that a year ago we didn’t have honestly. We were putting this tool in but we didn’t really have it working very well. Now, we do. So, result of those three things is our average order value is moving up with these new sales that we’re making and you’re always gonna have some churn in SMB. So, of these might churn out at $228 a month and then you go sell a guy $4.50 that’s new coming in.

So, there’s a stepping up going on and we like that. We think that’s a really healthy thing and over time we’ll continue to have a favorable effect on our margins and our churn.

Arjun Bhatia, Analyst, William Blair: Yeah. And you’ve seen, I think, you disclosed net retention and you’ve seen that sort of uptick happen already in the net retention rate. But talk about like how your gross churn just as you go after these higher customers will benefit and where ultimately you think the net retention rate can shake out longer term?

Joe Walsh, CEO, Thrive: There’s almost a straight line. If you go between giant enterprises like IBM down to the consumer, it’s almost a straight line of churn, like how much churn you’re gonna have. You know? In the enterprise world, you might have churn of less than 1%. In the consumer world, you might have churn of nine or 10, and there’s almost a straight line there.

We’re down in, currently very small business like three, two, three, four, five employees and we’re continuing to move up to larger. Keep helped us move up a little bit to be honest with you and Keep’s more sophisticated offering helps us make them more satisfied. Our reporting center helps bigger businesses be happier. Our workforce center that’s coming will pay employees and therefore you have to have employees to pay them. So, we’re moving up.

As we move up, the the natural amount of just people going out of business and just not being there anymore will improve. So, I think this is a gross simplification but we’re gonna go kind of from four or five employees to 10 or 12 over the next couple of years. And that will just make it easier.

Arjun Bhatia, Analyst, William Blair: Yeah. %. Okay. We have a few minutes left and I don’t want to leave without touching on the legacy business. We’ve we’ve walked through the growth rates and the drivers in the software business and kind of the execution and go to market changes that you’ve been making there.

But what’s happening in the legacy business, which is Yellow Pages and marketing services? You mentioned in your presentation you’re kind of sunsetting that. But give us a sense of how confident you are that you can generate those cash flows out of the legacy business and what sort of visibility you have into how much cash that business can generate?

Joe Walsh, CEO, Thrive: So the customers are on, for the most part, with few exceptions, twenty four month contracts. So the way six zero six accounting works is you publish the directory, you have to recognize all the revenue the day you publish it, and then you collect the cash over the next twenty four months. So, there’s quite a bit of predictability in that because you have twenty four month run out on the collections. And our bad debt is, you know, going back one hundred and thirty nine years has been really low. We just don’t have much bad debt.

We’re selling to established businesses. It’s a completely collectible type thing. So, we have a lot of visibility on the collection of that money and our, decline rates have barely budged. That may look to you sometimes if you’re looking at the numbers like they’re bounced around because of the revenue recognition, recognizing different books in different periods, but the actual decline in the directories has been high twenties for years. It’s just sitting there.

Hasn’t really moved. Even though we’re cannibalizing the hell out of it, not really working it that hard, it’s pretty much just hanging out right around there. And so, yeah, I have a I have a lot of confidence in the the cash performance of that business.

Arjun Bhatia, Analyst, William Blair: And your your CFO is not here, so I’m gonna ask you this question because you’re here. But the when you think about what sort of cash flow is needed to service the debt, how much of that is reliant purely on the legacy business versus a software business, which has also become profitable? I’m trying to see if the number’s up there. But it’s also become profitable.

Joe Walsh, CEO, Thrive: Can I give you a high level rough?

Arjun Bhatia, Analyst, William Blair: Yeah. That’s fine, please.

Joe Walsh, CEO, Thrive: So thinking about, like, now to the end of the decade, we’re gonna generate about $600,000,000 of cash. About half of it’s gonna come from SaaS, and about half of it’s gonna come from print phone books. Either half could pay off the debt.

Arjun Bhatia, Analyst, William Blair: So you have optionality?

Joe Walsh, CEO, Thrive: Yeah. Yeah.

Arjun Bhatia, Analyst, William Blair: Okay. And maybe just then talk about capital allocation because you have the debt, and you’ve made some M and A in the past both on the software side with Keep and on the Yellow Pages side. Like how do you think about M and A going forward and capital allocation in terms of paying off the debt?

Joe Walsh, CEO, Thrive: For the first time as we get to the second half of this year, we’re gonna begin to have some cash left in the business. It doesn’t all go to the debt. Yeah. And so, we’ll be able to consider buying back our shares. We have a share price a share authorization we could potentially buy back if we want.

We’ll have that as an option to consider. Hard for me to find a business that are on sale for a lower price than ours is on sale. So that’s gonna be we’re gonna look hard at that. You know, and we can invest a little bit more in marketing. There’s a lot of basic things that we’re not doing at the moment that are just good hygiene you should be doing.

For example, somebody does a branded search for your particular product or brand name, you should at least defend that by having ads on that page. We aren’t doing that. We really haven’t enough money to do that and so people are Shanghai ing our customer off right there unless they go down and find the organic result. So, you know, we’ll cure that, but we just don’t have a lot of extra dough to throw around right now.

Arjun Bhatia, Analyst, William Blair: Okay. Alright. Well, we are up on time. Thank you, Joe. Great conversation.

Thanks, everyone, for coming. We really appreciate it. We are gonna be in here for the breakout afterwards. If you have any questions for Joe, please stick around. We’ll open it up to the floor fairly shortly here.

Joe Walsh, CEO, Thrive: Alright.

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